Sputtering at 10psi with E316g

[Indiana]

Let it idle, pull one plug wire off at a time and listen. That is after you do a compression check othewise you can't tell if it was ignition, a failed headgasket or something in the valve train or worse. A lifter could have died, if its mechanical then a screw could have backed off. You can get a spark plug and just push it into the wire from that cylinder and lay it on a ground and see if it fires.

[Soopaquest87]

It idles great thats why im confused now, its only when youre driving it runs bad, but i did pick up a set of temporary NGK plugs BPR6EY-11 and a rotor i have to order distributor cap. But ill do that plug wire thing in a little bit after it warms up, i also got a new pcv to go on also

 

 

 

Pulled the old plugs BPR7ES and heres the colors they were on tips

 

From front of car to back:

 

#1= Tan on tip

#2= Black on tip

#3= Tan on tip

#4=Tan on tip

 

So what can this mean ill upload a picture of all 4 plugs also

Edited December 28, 2011 by boosted99_420

[Soopaquest87]

#1= http://i41.tinypic.com/207uw6h.jpg

 

 

#2= http://i39.tinypic.com/e80mys.jpg

 

 

#3= http://i42.tinypic.com/qrd5hi.jpg

 

 

#4= http://i41.tinypic.com/1nzciw.jpg

[Indiana]

All fouled but one. I read this again and get that you have a stock accordian hose? I say that because you mention you had the rubber coupler and that's only an adapter for a stock accordian hose and that hose can n o t have a tear in it or leak at all or it will cause create your symptoms.

 

The BOV, I'd get rid of it for now if you have to take it off and put a aluminum sheet over the opening and bolt it back on and leave its hose off to be sure its not leaking. Most BOVs will leak just at idle if their spring isn't strong enough and your mismatched spark plugs sort of point to that as a possibility. To check to see that its not leaking too much, rev the rpms up to 3000 and hold them steady and put your hand over the BOV and it better not be leaking. Now slighty let the rpms drop and that valve better NOT leak out ANY air. If it does its either a cheap noise maker (which is what most are) or if its a good one, its spring isn't strong enough. Mashing the spring down to make it "tighter" is the cheap way to make a cheap BOV work better. You just limited its range of movement by doing that too.

 

Your boost isn't too high. A big 16G at 10psi is a dog but it shouldn't be fouling plugs either.

 

You said compression was fine but didn't say what it was or if you have mechanical or hydraulic lifters. Consistent lash on mechanical or making sure all the hydraulic lifters pump up and stay there is a must.

 

Those plugs are not for this fuel system you might as well have bought .99 Bosch it wouldn't have mattered. They foul too easily. I doubt your misfire is from knocking at just 10psi.

 

If you haven't, take the MAF out of the can or filter, put it beside what is goes in and how much room is their below the honeycomb where the air comes in? If I'm correct and you do have an accordian hose then you may also have the air can and if someone put the 1G MAF in a stock lid there's your problem, or one of them. How many pin sockets are in your MAF? A 1G DSM turbo MAF has locations for 8 pins but only has 7 pins in the socket and you only need 6 as the 7th you just fold over or cut off. The stock MAF only has 6 locations and all are used. What air filter you using and its shape?

 

Did you get a timing light on it yet?

 

This is something simple. You won't need a translator until you get up to 20psi or a different fuel pump even for that, a big16G is just not that "big".

 

You have said you have those aftermarket replacement injectors. To get them to spray worth a damn at idle you really need to get a new stand alone fuel pressure regulator. They just dispense too much fuel at stock 36psi when they were made to be port injectors at like 50-55psi all the time. It just happens they physically can fit in the throttlebody and are sold in different sizes and two sizes sort of work but its still a compromise. Best thing you could do is get a set of OEM injectors and I'd bet this problem would be gone. When the fuel pressure is lowered, the spray pattern isn't as fine and MORE fuel comes out and they spray in a more narrow pattern by about half so until you open that throttle all the way up, get the rpms and boost up imo they don't work like OEM injectors and the only way they don't completely suck is by getting more fuel pressure to them to begin with. There's a side effect to getting a FPR too and that's when you get up past say 15psi, when you are in a higher gear and get your full boost then you puke rich again and if you go 20 well just forget it you have to get a fuel translator. You have to do that to compensate for having way too much fuel from the additional pressure that the ECU can't adjust for.

[Soopaquest87]

Well i found the problem with the bad runing the #2 plug wire was dang near eating all the way through from the last owner letting it rub the crank pully, yes it is a stock accordian with a 1g MAF and a giant hole cut out of the air can i havnt gotten a timing light yet i am going to get tags on the car monday and if i have money left i am going to get a timing light and see how it looks. the air filter is a K&N oval shaped, my maf has 6 wires on the pigtail going into the maf and 1 is cut. And i Hit 16psi today after the rotor, cap, plugs, and a temp wire but after that it bucks and cuts out at 7+ psi, i am begining to think maybe my coil is going bad. But what are the best plugs to get for the setup i am on the ones i got today are just temporary to see if they were the problem. But the engine has this all done as well. The New lower psi cut out started after i put the new PCV on today it seems like but i dont see what a pcv has to do with boost.

 

Engine mods:

8.0:1 comp (i belive)

Lightened rods

Cam i belive its a 280 but i do know it is cammed

3 inch exhaust all the way back

port and polished intake mani

650cc and 950cc injectors

stock fuel pump w/ fuel pressure gauge under the hood

 

The guy i got the car from said he did mess with the timing one time cause he said the car was "burning to much gas" when it ran perfect and didnt burn gas like he said when the friend he got it from had it thats when it ran a 14.02 @ 98mph. I am taking my time on this car and money isnt a real big issue once the cut out is fixed i am going to leave it like it is.

[Indiana]

The 1G MAF doesn't work in the stock air can. The 1G air can lid is a different shape, its more oval and it won't clamp onto the Conquest air can plus its about 2" taller. Your MAF now if its stuck into the Conquest lid (some of the holes have to be redrilled because I think only half line up) which is flat on the top causes the honeycomb on the end of the MAF to be way too close to the bottom of the air can and there's not enough room to suck the air in and that's one problem. You have to either get the 1G MAF lid, which won't clamp to the can unless you bend it quite a bit or go back to a stock MAF (which is much shorter).

 

The other is those non OEM injectors spraying way too much fuel in a too narrow pattern. You will need to get a stand alone fuel pressure regulator and up the base pressure from the stock 36psi to about 42. That will atomize the fuel much better but there's still an idle issue with the more narrow spray pattern. You will not be so rich and that sputter should be gone.

 

The plug wires need organized and put in insulated retainers and not cross over each other. The voltage can jump across to another wire or if laying near a ground especially if the insulation is cut will just jump to there and not reach the tip of the spark plug.

 

The plug you should order are NGK 7031 and you might have to get a box of ten but they are still just $2 so try NAPA or Jegs/Summit as not all stores will order them for you.

 

Now, look back....this wasn't because of the turbo size or the boost pressure. It was just bad choices in parts. The stock MAF is just as good as a 1G MAF but a 1G MAF is newer and not as dirty or oily from using those oily filters as long and the cardboard liners inside aren't soaked up and cause the sound waves from the MAF to bounce around easier and that's the purpose of the cardboard to absorb stray sound waves and oily filters will over time ruin that and you can't wash it off you'll never get all the oil back out. The non OEM injectors cause it to be too rich at low throttle and messed up plug wires.

 

When you get that FPR changed you should be able to run that daily at ~18psi. Going higher will mean you have to start out in 1st and max out the rpms to burn all that extra fuel from the FPR adding it in and the ECU can't adjust for it and when you are in a higher gear at low speeds you can't mash the pedal to the floor because when you reach about 3200rpms you make full boost and there's no way you need that much fuel pressure so it pukes rich again so you have to lift your foot and have a lower boost until the rpms are higher.

 

The 4 digit part # for the BUR7EA-11 plug is #7031 and the Denso counter part is shown below right beside it.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270178_1433713461021_1778479606_687165_5362411_n.jpg

The plug tip design is different and resists fouling which can happen from mostly from the wide swings in fuel pressure from boost and that can happen at most of the rpm range and when you quickly move the throttle or mash it wide open the ECU just dumps in fuel and this is when those other more common type plugs MISFIRE because they just FOULED out. Basically the end is just rolled over. You can google it, the plug design is "surface or semi-surface discharge". People like to say the spark "blew out" but the fact is most times the plug is just too wet to fire. The fuel lays all around the insulator and prevents the plug from firing so the common thing is.....mash the gap down and force that plug to run hotter and keep it drier and get it a shorter path to jump across. Mashing the gap on plugs doesn't fix the overly rich air/fuel ratio issue -it just covers it up. You can fine tune the gap on your plugs after its running.

 

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/plugwiring02.jpg

 

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/262972_1480831478942_1778479606_741568_2139358_n.jpg

 

This is the 1G MAF lid. Big difference from a stock Conquest MAF lid. That raised up portion in the center is necessary.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/thetexan88/Powdercoated%20Mitsu%20Parts/P1010029.jpg

[Soopaquest87]

The lid i have doesnt clamp down at all, i am going to get the plug wire holder that goes to the head as soon as i find one the one on there is broken, I am going to get new plug wires not sure of what kind im thinking MSD, I am going to order the plugs, and i am also going to go ahead and get a new Coil while im at it not sure whats the best for my set-up yet. But today the promlem was non existant since the new cap, rotor, plugs, and i temp fixed the #2 wire. But until i get all parts ordered that are the best for this car and take the cheap crap off it is going to be parked for about a week. Also the smoke problem was cured te new PCV fixed it now it just has a puff of smoke at a stop from the left over oil in the IC and IC pipes so thanks for all the help.

[Indiana]

MSD blaster II, there's more than one model you want the one that says its for electronic ignition.

 

MSD wires (part # ME51) and you already know the plugs.

 

As long as the MAF LID is just like the one I have in the picture ok, but if its just FLAT on the top and only the opening for the accordian hose then you can not use that one it sticks the end of the MAF too close to the bottom of the can and it can't suck in enough air and it screws up the air flow. Its ok if it doesn't clamp into the can as long as the filter is clamped to the lid but how did you seal the filter in? K&N makes an oval stock replacement filter and its completely open on each end and that's the one you have? (Its the only one that works) The DSM filter has a tin plate on the bottom end, the Starion filter is open.

 

This is a Starion stock air filter, its open on both ends

 

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/images/product_images/images/k-and-n/E-2873.JPG

 

 

This is a popular choice but in reality it sucks. You buy these to get more air flow yet the MAF is poked down in that tapered end with a plastic cap on the end and it only has about an inch or so to suck in all the air and not much room around the outside and if you use this with a 1G MAF and a stock can lid you only have about 1/4" to suck air through. WILL NOT WORK and it will end up causing those MAF "codes" because of the screwy signals that can be generated by lack of air flow. When the air has to go down and make a sharp turn and come back up the little honey comb straightener can't get the job done there's just not enought lenght to straighten the air back out again.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/images/product_images/thumbs200/k-and-n/E-2875.JPG

 

Here's the fancy one, its a little worse than the one above

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/images/product_images/thumbs200/k-and-n/RF-1022.JPG

 

 

This is what they sold for a DSM (uses the above filter) and while I've used this in the past I no longer do. This filter is way to small on the cone end and screws up the MAF and CAUSES those "screwy" MAF "overrun" BS when it wouldn't otherwise. Yes there is a limit to the flow but a disruption in the air flow being caused by a filter is not how you mod your car. This kit is about $150 and the only difference is it comes with a tin ring that replaces the lip of the air can people threw out. $100 for that is insane.

 

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/images/product_images/thumbs200/k-and-n/57-5500.jpg

 

This is a stock DSM air filter shown from both ends. LARGE oval and not tapered.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/images/product_images/thumbs200/beck_arnley/BA-0421470-1.jpg

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/images/product_images/thumbs200/fram/AHCA6362.jpg

 

 

 

Go back to a STOCK AIR CAN AND FILTER but if you want to use a 1G MAF fine you have to get the 1G LID also and bend your air can to use it because the shape of each can is different and the clamps won't work.

 

 

 

I know someone that did something that did work but its a little different. He took the air can out and used the DSM stock filter above but cut a hole in the metal end and ran a hose down where it sucked in cold air and put another filter on the end of that hose. That's ok and it doesn't restrict the MAF and he did that using a stock lid, not the 1G lid.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Indiana