Fresh rebuild won't start

[natallica]

I have a completely rebuilt 88 auto. To keep this short... I'll give a "greatest hits"

 

Timing is correct (triple checked) and I have fuel , I have fire... but not what I desire Fuel pressure checked at TB, also tested injectors themselves and the clips are new!

Any ideas as to why it will crank but not start, sputter, backfire... anything?

Could a bad sensor or incorrect vacuum line be the culprit? Just can't seem to get it to turn over.

 

Any assistance is always appreciated!

 

N8

Edited December 6, 2010 by natallica

[Indiana]

You haven't checked compression have you? If that's a hydraulic head and the lifters weren't bled then your valves might not be seating so you don't have enough compression for it to start. If its mechanical they would need to be adjusted again. If the head was on a running motor and just removed and not taken apart then it should be alright and you wouldn't have to bleed the lifters down.

 

You sure the distributor is correct in that when its at #1 you are on the compression stroke not the exhaust stroke?

 

The spark, do you mean you see 12v at the coil or you have the starter turning the motor over and you have spark at a spark plug?

 

The fuel pump, the control relay turns the fuel pump on while the starter is activated but needs a tach signal to keep it on after the ignition switch moves from start to run.

 

The tach signal comes from the coil through a small metal enclosed resistor, its about an inch long and 3/8" square, has two wires from it one white and one black.

 

The fuse links behind the battery, the one labeled "ECI" up the side of the holder, if that's dirty you'll not have an ignition signal.

 

and if that's all correct and the injector clips are new, were the wires mixed up? With the key on, you'll see 12v on each of the injector clips.

 

You tried starter fluid?

 

If you have cranked it over too long and it hasn't started you may have fouled the plugs, you'll have to let them dry.

 

and you have the plug wires in the correct order? 1 3 4 2?

 

plug wire boots some can slide on the wires, is the coil wire at the coil and the distributor cap fully inserted and the boot is on and looks like the wire is on but its really not making contact?

 

If you take the coil wire out of the dist. cap and lay it by the negative battery post and crank the motor over you should see a spark, do you ?

 

 

 

 

[natallica]

You haven't checked compression have you? If that's a hydraulic head and the lifters weren't bled then your valves might not be seating so you don't have enough compression for it to start. If its mechanical they would need to be adjusted again. If the head was on a running motor and just removed and not taken apart then it should be alright and you wouldn't have to bleed the lifters down.

The lifters are all brand new and spongy, I soaked them all in oil before inserting them... should they be "collapsed feeling" when installed, or stiff? I replaced them all because 6 out of the 8 old ones sounded like a PCV valve when you'd shake them.

 

You sure the distributor is correct in that when its at #1 you are on the compression stroke not the exhaust stroke?

Crank Pulley at TDC, Keyway was approx 3 o'clock and cam timing is per site recommendations

 

The spark, do you mean you see 12v at the coil or you have the starter turning the motor over and you have spark at a spark plug?

Have spark from each plug wire, also used timing light on each wire while turning over, shows light pulses

 

The fuel pump, the control relay turns the fuel pump on while the starter is activated but needs a tach signal to keep it on after the ignition switch moves from start to run.

 

The tach signal comes from the coil through a small metal enclosed resistor, its about an inch long and 3/8" square, has two wires from it one white and one black.

Does this typically mount to the coil bracket? If so...any pics? This thing was a basket case when purchased so I'm trying to reassemble correctly, and still finding little things that were in a box of parts

 

The fuse links behind the battery, the one labeled "ECI" up the side of the holder, if that's dirty you'll not have an ignition signal.

Fuse Links were metered and O.K

 

and if that's all correct and the injector clips are new, were the wires mixed up? With the key on, you'll see 12v on each of the injector clips.

Wiring was resoldered and heat shrinked using the FSM schematics.

 

You tried starter fluid?

Not as of yet, my father made that suggestion but I'm only working on it on the weekends about 20 miles away

 

If you have cranked it over too long and it hasn't started you may have fouled the plugs, you'll have to let them dry.

Checked plugs after a few tries and still look new and dry.

 

and you have the plug wires in the correct order? 1 3 4 2?

Yes

 

plug wire boots some can slide on the wires, is the coil wire at the coil and the distributor cap fully inserted and the boot is on and looks like the wire is on but its really not making contact?

All are inserted correctly

 

If you take the coil wire out of the dist. cap and lay it by the negative battery post and crank the motor over you should see a spark, do you ?

Yes

[RWInspired]

Is the two wire ring terminal coming off the harnes by the coil properly fastened to the chassis for a ground? I made the mistake of conecting it to the ground of the coil and had the same problem. Injectors would not fire.

[natallica]

Is the two wire ring terminal coming off the harness by the coil properly fastened to the chassis for a ground? I made the mistake of connecting it to the ground of the coil and had the same problem. Injectors would not fire.

 

I'll have to double check this weekend... it's highly possible it's in the wrong spot, can't quite remember .

[Indiana]

The distributor when you put that into the head, I asked about if it was on the correct stroke exhaust or compression. The crank turns twice for the cam to turn once so one time you see the TDC mark lined up and the cam dowel pin is at the top and the distributor must have the rotor pointing to the #1 plug wire tower and the next time the TDC mark lines up the cam dowel is at the bottom and the rotor is now pointing opposite #1, or to the #4 tower. If you already had the valve cover on and didn't know what the position of the cam was and you just looked at the TDC mark and lined it up it could still be wrong.

 

If the ECI fuse link is dirty, the fuel pump won't run except while the key is in the starting position. The tach signal thing, yes it was under a bolt for the coil bracket.

 

Sounds like the timing is off or you aren't getting your injectors to fire and they won't if a tach signal isn't getting back to the ECU. Does your tach bounce or move while you are trying to start it?

[Coke]

When you soldered the new connectors to the injectors, are you sure you got the polarity right? Did you plug in the distributor plug to the harness? With this unplugged, the injectors won't get "pulse" to spray either. Edited December 7, 2010 by Coke

[Indiana]

4 wires are for the injectors, two lead back to the ECU and are the ground path and the ECU makes the ground to cause them to open, the other two wires come from the resistor behind the passenger side headlight and it gets a power feed from the control relay and splits for the power to the injectors. The resistor is there so that the injectors aren't as effected by changes in battery voltage that would change their reaction time since they operate in terms of milliseconds. Using a volt meter and with your ignition key "on", you should have battery voltage at each injector clip on one wire and it won't matter what position it is in the clip and the ground just use the body since the ECU isn't making a ground at this time. What Coke is asking is that did you get the two ground (driver) wires on one clip and the two power wires on the other?

[DieHARDmitsu.]

If you have the primary injector(black) clip on the larger secondary injector(green), it could flood the system with too much gas each time you try to crank it.

What brand of spark plugs do you have in that motor?

Edited December 7, 2010 by DieHARDmitsu.

[natallica]

If you have the primary injector(black) clip on the larger secondary injector(green), it could flood the system with too much gas each time you try to crank it.

What brand of spark plugs do you have in that motor?

 

 

Autolite XP63 Iridium.

[Indiana]

Autolite XP63 Iridium.

Wrong plugs.

[natallica]

Wrong plugs.

 

I'm open to recommendations ... but, would this create a definite "no-start" scenario, or would it just run improperly? I have the plugs that were removed from the basket case before I rebuilt her, maybe I'll clean them up tomorrow and try them for giggles.

 

I was blinded by the "nicer-plugs" for cheaper trick... and I read somewhere that these would be better, but I guess not

Edited December 11, 2010 by JAinsworth
Skirting the langauge filter

[Indiana]

You have fuel and spark and as long as the spark is at or near TDC on the compression stroke it should start. You sure you installed the distributor and set it on the compression stroke? If its half turn off it won't do much of anything.

 

The other thing, have you checked compression? If you have hydraulic lifters and they aren't letting the valves seat you compression will be low or none so it won't start.

 

You have a NAPA near you? Go order a set of plugs, don't tell them what your car is because they won't show up for it any longer just ask for NGK part # 7031 they are about $2/each.

 

If you think you have the distributor in half turn off, move the plug wires clockwise two positions, meaning instead of 1 3 4 2, start with 4 2 1 3 and see if it starts. If it does, pull the dist. cap off and turn it to TDC but have the butt end of the rotor pointing to where #1 is SUPPOSED to be not where it actually is then pull the dist. out and turn the rotor half turn and put it back in then move your plug wires back where they are supposed to be. -you didn't have the rotor at #1 on TDC compression stroke, you had it on #1 exhaust stroke.

 

If the plug are fouled from all the cranking and it never started you'll have to pull them out and let them dry.

 

If you want to double check your spark, put the coil wire from the dist. cap over on the negative battery cable and have someone crank it over you'll see the spark jump to the battery post.

 

If it tries to start then dies when the key moves from start to run you have a dirty ECI fuse link connection and a way to see that this is the problem is just use a jumper on the pump test port over to the positive battery post and the pump will run all the time. If there isn't an ignition pulse to the ECU it won't leave the pump running and the ECI fuse link corrodes. Its in that black holder behind the battery.

[natallica]

You have fuel and spark and as long as the spark is at or near TDC on the compression stroke it should start. You sure you installed the distributor and set it on the compression stroke? If its half turn off it won't do much of anything.

 

The other thing, have you checked compression? If you have hydraulic lifters and they aren't letting the valves seat you compression will be low or none so it won't start.

 

You have a NAPA near you? Go order a set of plugs, don't tell them what your car is because they won't show up for it any longer just ask for NGK part # 7031 they are about $2/each.

 

If you think you have the distributor in half turn off, move the plug wires clockwise two positions, meaning instead of 1 3 4 2, start with 4 2 1 3 and see if it starts. If it does, pull the dist. cap off and turn it to TDC but have the butt end of the rotor pointing to where #1 is SUPPOSED to be not where it actually is then pull the dist. out and turn the rotor half turn and put it back in then move your plug wires back where they are supposed to be. -you didn't have the rotor at #1 on TDC compression stroke, you had it on #1 exhaust stroke.

 

If the plug are fouled from all the cranking and it never started you'll have to pull them out and let them dry.

 

If you want to double check your spark, put the coil wire from the dist. cap over on the negative battery cable and have someone crank it over you'll see the spark jump to the battery post.

 

If it tries to start then dies when the key moves from start to run you have a dirty ECI fuse link connection and a way to see that this is the problem is just use a jumper on the pump test port over to the positive battery post and the pump will run all the time. If there isn't an ignition pulse to the ECU it won't leave the pump running and the ECI fuse link corrodes. Its in that black holder behind the battery.

 

Thanks a lot, I'll check all of these things today.

[natallica]

Thanks for all of the help guys!

 

Primary Injector (grabbed the wrong one) was stuck open, so fuel was pouring straight through into the TB flooding it to death. Car finally started and ran (rough ) while giving it a little pedal. Tomorrow hopefully I can fine tune and try to get it much smoother.

 

Any Ideas on what the next step can be, what to check, what to adjust? This is my first attempt at rebuilding one of these so I'd like to get it right. And who better to ask than the pros