This week's new problem: Clutch acting stupid...UPDATE: Fixed

[JessN16]

The clutch itself is fairly new. Although the car sat for nearly 2 years, the clutch had fewer than 300 miles on it when it was parked. At the time it was replaced, we either replaced the master or slave cylinder at the same time, I forget which.

 

So imagine my surprise Friday when, after driving about 80 miles on the interstate, I pull up to the top of the exit ramp, depress the clutch, and it goes to the floor and then springs back only halfway.

 

I thought the slave cylinder was about to fail, so I drove it the rest of the way in while shifting without using a clutch.

 

But then a funny thing happened: I checked the fluid in the slave cylinder, and it was full. And when I started to make the return trip home, everything was fine again.

 

The key seems to be how hot everything gets. The hotter things get (and it's been plenty hot -- 99 degrees this week on most days with heat indexes into the 120s), the more often this happens. But once the car cools down, things go back to normal. It also appears as if some fluid has boiled out of the reservoir, but I can't confirm that.

 

Ideas?

 

Jess

Edited August 18, 2010 by JessN16

[Indiana]

Rusty fluid, chewed up your new slave cylinder rubber seal or in the master. If not its air in there, either way you will have to flush the old fluid to know and if its rusty it may have ruined the seals so it could happen again. Its like a brake master going out except you can still stop if the clutch is bad just its real fun driving the car while starting it in gear and shifting quickly without a clutch to get moving. Brake master does the same thing when you push down the pedal and nothing happens, the fluid just moves back and forth in the master since the seals are bad.

[JessN16]

Rusty fluid, chewed up your new slave cylinder rubber seal or in the master. If not its air in there, either way you will have to flush the old fluid to know and if its rusty it may have ruined the seals so it could happen again. Its like a brake master going out except you can still stop if the clutch is bad just its real fun driving the car while starting it in gear and shifting quickly without a clutch to get moving. Brake master does the same thing when you push down the pedal and nothing happens, the fluid just moves back and forth in the master since the seals are bad.

 

Would I be able to tell if it's rusty by taking off the clutch reservoir and looking at the fluid? Because it looks very clear in there to me...

 

It's doing it again today, by the way. And when it starts doing it, the clutch take-up point moves almost all the way down to the firewall.

 

Jess

[UlrichWolf]

I'm voting air bubble about midway in the pipe.

 

Tim

[JessN16]

I'm voting air bubble about midway in the pipe.

 

Tim

 

Should we just drain it and refill, then? Car is going in for tires next week and it will be the perfect opportunity to do this, I would think.

 

Jess

[Indiana]

You'll have to bleed it now, maybe. Take the bleeder out and let the fluid run out but do not let the reservoir run out of it will take in air. No it may not be rusty or the slave cylinder walls may now have pits in them, the fluid can have moisture in it and when it sits for a long time that eats up the walls and it can even cause the piston to seize up.

[UlrichWolf]

Should we just drain it and refill, then? Car is going in for tires next week and it will be the perfect opportunity to do this, I would think.

 

Jess

 

Yeah, you can, or you can just bleed, bleed, bleed, probably to the point of technically a flush.

 

Tim

[Shelby]

Jess replace the clutch master and if the slave has not been replace'd replace it also,,

 

alum gets eaten away over time by chemical reactions to acid in the fluid and

corrosion , brake fluid absorbs moisture and over time the fluid goes bad,, flushing is a waste of time the damage has already been done

[JessN16]

Jess replace the clutch master and if the slave has not been replace'd replace it also,,

 

alum gets eaten away over time by chemical reactions to acid in the fluid and

corrosion , brake fluid absorbs moisture and over time the fluid goes bad,, flushing is a waste of time the damage has already been done

 

Man, I hope you're wrong about that, because we're still not altogether sure that we're going to be keeping this car. Having to replace both the slave and master cylinders would likely trigger a sale. One of them is already fairly new, I forget which, if not both of them. I know I've had 3 or 4 slave cylinders in this car over the last nine years. This car seems to eat them for snacks.

 

Jess

[Indiana]

If you never flushed out all of the old fluid that had water in it that's why they died, they just rusted and the pits in the cylinder walls let the fluid bypass and when it gets rusty that chews the seals. Both as a set on ebay are not expensive, surely you won't sell a car because it needs some fluid and you to spend about 60 on it. If you look in the service manual, this is one of those things in normal maintenance to flush out the brake system too every so often.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/87-89-CHRYSLER-CONQUEST-CLUTCH-MASTER-SLAVE-CYLINDER-/350230406686?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories

[Shelby]

replaceing both can be done for under $100 , unless your planing on paying some shop $300 for labor to do 45 minutes work ,

if you have the tools rebuild the master and slave, nothing that a rocket scientist would be need'd for ,,that for less then $50 bucks,,

but why the going cheap all of a sudent from a guy that drives a jag,, a car that can eat $3k in a heart beat with out bating an eye

 

 

as for this clutch thing the worst thing that you can do to a hyd system is leave it set,, then come along and depress the petal this causes corrosion to form in the houseing while seting idle,, this causes a rought surface for the cup seals to run across,, that cuts groves in the seals and befor long causes the pressure to leak off as fast as it's built , so no clutch operation ,,

 

this holds true for the brake system as well but less because of a short master cyl stroke,, but if for some reason like bleeding brakes you depress the cyl past it's normal woking range,, instant failing of the seals,,

 

so in fact the non use of the car is to blame for the cost of replaceing the clutch system parts , of course where you live can multiply this going bad thing and a real dry climet can lessen the effect

[JessN16]

Every time I've replaced a slave cylinder, the total bill has been over $200. I think the master cylinder was about the same the last time, $200.

 

The fluid was drained the last time we did one of the two (I remember because they charged me for new fluid).

 

The talk of selling the car is mostly pent-up frustration. If you go back to the time before this car was parked, it was making at least one trip to a service center for something every month or two.

 

By contrast, our two Jaguars haven't needed anything other than tires or oil in over a year. Jaguar gets a bad rap for maintenance anyway. It's not as bad as the stories.

 

I guess my point is that most things I do I have to send in for repair. That includes ANYTHING -- no exceptions whatsoever -- that require the car to be off the ground, which by definition means clutch/suspension/rear end/etc. I cannot and will not work under a car in my yard. So either I end up getting the car towed every 4-5 weeks, or I have to take a half-day off work to drive the car down to the one shop that will work on it. I just can't do that.

 

Jess

[Shelby]

all i can say is your good budy at the repair shop ain't your good budy,,he's takeing you to the cleaners

 

and i know jags very well work'd on them for 30+ years

 

well known in the jag world, you can own as many as you want but never never take one on a trip , you'l be walking home

[JessN16]

Just did 636 miles in one today, Dallas to Prattville. I've been stranded twice in Jags, once in an old one that lost an alternator (fixed it the next day, drove it on in) and once in Knoxville, the only time I've ever had to make special arrangements. By contrast, our old Sigma and the three StarQuests I've owned have left us in more places than AT&T has bars. heck, I've spent more time in rental cars and hotels on account of my dad's Lincolns than I have with our Jags.

 

I guess my point is I've reached the place in time where I've only got a certain amount of money to allocate to "significant" repair and upkeep, and I have to choose between what has become a glorified playtoy (the Starion) or a car I can actually work out of. Melena and I figured it up tonight: The Starion has been operational now during parts of four months over a two-year period. In each of those four months, it encountered a problem and needed to be either towed home, or to a shop. The other 20 months, it was dead in the yard.

 

Jess

[JessN16]

Just wanted to tell everyone that this is now fixed -- or more appropriately, it fixed itself. Jon Burgess and I took the cap off the fluid reservoir, pumped the clutch about 10 times and I guess we burped an air bubble out of it. Problem hasn't come back since.

 

Jess