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SMB Exhaust Manifold Cracked Manifold

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#21 QuestFan

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:38 PM

View PoststarquestJOE, on 01 September 2011 - 09:37 PM, said:

if mine crackes ill jump on your banned wagon

Okay. I wish you the best of luck. I really liked this manifold when I bought it. Now Im not too happy with it. Hope you have better luck.
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#22 QuestFan

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:43 PM

Words From The Wise...

"In mild steel especialy, the HAZ is very soft cause it's fully anealed. it's not so much that it's anealed as it is that the strengths are different. disimilar hardnesses cause the undesired energy to all be focused on the weakest area. the motor vibrations are made worse with solid mounts but the manofold itsef still gets vibrated pretty good either way. I use a very hard poly mount on the pass side, and a soft stock mount on the drivers side. This limits motor movement quite a lot, but still keeps the vibration to a miminum.

In several stainess alloys and other "super alloys" the HAZ is actually stronger than the base metal and that too causes cracking at the base of the weld, just further away from the weld due to the difference in hardness. at twelvehundered degrees, mild steel is only one quarter it's room temp strength. the three sixteen grade I use is much stronger at that temp due to the high Molybdenum content, that's it's main benifit and what sets it apart from other similar alloys. also, 316L is an extra low carbon (ELC) grade of stainless that has only .03% carbon, making less carbon available to precipitate with the chromium, this means it's almost impossible to carburize and beome brittle over time.

Looks like he used the correct methods and weld temps, just the wrong material and flange placement. Looks like he's a good fabricator that just didn't do the metalurgy and structural research. I fell victom to the same mistake my first time arround too, and I had a few failures also, so I'm not doggign on him at all."

Source: Chad

Edited by YoungQuestFan, 01 September 2011 - 09:52 PM.

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#23 Scotty Dont

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 11:03 PM

I would see if he can make you another first and also seeing as the crack happened at the waste gate it could have been because of the way you have to wastegate dump route.  No one should be all jumpy until we know all of the facts, this isn't like the mookeeh headers where they all cracked, you are the first and it could be an issolated case or operator/installer error.  


Oh and I wouldn't refund you any money seeing as you had someone else weld on it.
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#24 SOTTY

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 01:29 AM

It is recommended that you have this header coated and S.M.B / Chris does state this to ANYONE thats buying this header to do so  , why dont you contact him again and resolve this as i'm sure he will via Pm and WAY TO GO DOOD ! , i now see yet another vendor about to pull the plug on y'all .

Edited by SOTTY, 02 September 2011 - 01:30 AM.

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#25 NotStock88

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 01:45 AM

View PostSOTTY, on 02 September 2011 - 01:29 AM, said:

It is recommended that you have this header coated and S.M.B / Chris does state this to ANYONE thats buying this header to do so  , why dont you contact him again and resolve this as i'm sure he will via Pm and WAY TO GO DOOD ! , i now see yet another vendor about to pull the plug on y'all .
suppliers supplying products that fail this quickly deserve to have their plug pulled. While he obviously dint do this intentionally, he did make good and re-weld it for you to try to make it right the fist time you had an issue. I am not hating, by any means, the product looks wonderful and the quality and craftsmanship look good, he just didnt do as much research to know which metal to use. I bet he will make this right!
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#26 psu_Crash

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 02:20 AM

$%#^! .... I was waiting for this thread.

I had mine ceramic coated after returning the first one for a new design (as you may know) but I have only ran it 20 minutes until my block gave way.

I'll be watching this and be sure to post up my experience with the manifold once I get the car back up and running.
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#27 QuestFan

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:40 AM

I understand everyone jumping on me about making SMB look bad. I really like the guy, he is a good man, and he knows what he is doing when it comes to welding. But no matter how much awesome welding you do to this thing, it just isnt going to hold in the long run.

So far it seems that only two people have actually installed and ran their header. And the second person didnt get enough run time out of it to show any results.

If you bought an SMB header and you've ran it for at least a month or you have purchased one and you are going to run it soon, report back on here and proove me wrong.

The first time it cracked around the wastegate and I contacted SMB about it he said he was familiar with the issue and it was starting to become a problem and that a gusset of some kind will have to be in order.

Again, I really didnt like doing this but I am fed up with dealing with this manifold. I havnt said that I want a refund or an exhange. I just want SOMEHTHING to be done.

As for not getting a refund or something because someone else welded on it?? Regardless, it had to be welded AGAIN for the same issue. SMB told me to either ship it to him again and he would fix it again or just get it welded locally.

We need more people to run these things so we can see the results. After we see more results, then you can tell me I should have coated it and what ever else.

I simply started this thread to see who else has purchased one of SMB's manifolds and what kind of results did you get out of it.

I am NOT trying to run off SMB. He is a good man with good skills. He just used the wrong materials. The explanation is clear in above post. (Words from the wise)

Edited by YoungQuestFan, 02 September 2011 - 07:50 AM.

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#28 QuestFan

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:56 AM

I just texted SMB and informed him of the situation and this thread.

I recall SMB suggesting a coating company he knew about that he could get it coated for me while he had it for repair the first time.

I told him I dont have the money to have that done.

Edited by YoungQuestFan, 02 September 2011 - 07:59 AM.

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#29 StarquestRescue

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 11:06 AM

View PostYoungQuestFan, on 14 August 2011 - 01:03 PM, said:

I am tempted to ask for a refund. If I would have known all of the information Chad has explained I would have stayed with that treadstone cast manifold. I bought one but immediatly returned it and bought the SMB. I think my next route is try to get a refund for this one and buy another treadstone. I never have good luck with custom made manifolds. If a guy is worried about it cracking, why would you waste the money on it in the first place. Which is what I have come to realize about manifolds.

EDIT: I am not trying to make anyone look bad here. Its just like what has been said, the grade of metal just can not withstand the heat and vibrations. I was warned by maxboost87 not to buy an SMB maniflod. So I got Maxboost87 to build me a nice log manifold out of stainless and it lasted a good while anifold because they were mild steel. until I got ran into the ditch which is what I think caused the manifold to crack. So then I bought the SMB even after I was warned not to. You learn from your mistakes.

You were warned not to by this, and everyone was warned by chad these would not last. Perhaps others should have spoke up, but no one wants to hear it. Day in and day out noobs are told to "just go mpi," and that you need a header, even for tiny bolt on turbos. That is just flat out bad advice to give a noob with shollow pockets. Yet it is dished out dayly by other noobs as well as people with 10,20,30k posts that should know better. Than to tell noobs that.

400,450, 720 has been made with stock maniflods with bigger flanges welded on.
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#30 IntercooledFlatty

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 11:25 AM

View PostScotty Dont, on 01 September 2011 - 11:03 PM, said:

I would see if he can make you another first and also seeing as the crack happened at the waste gate it could have been because of the way you have to wastegate dump route.  No one should be all jumpy until we know all of the facts, this isn't like the mookeeh headers where they all cracked, you are the first and it could be an issolated case or operator/installer error.  


Oh and I wouldn't refund you any money seeing as you had someone else weld on it.

exactly
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#31 Scotty Dont

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 01:47 PM

View PostIntercooledFlatty, on 02 September 2011 - 11:25 AM, said:


exactly


You like how he ignored my post?
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#32 QuestFan

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 03:39 PM

View PostScotty Dont, on 02 September 2011 - 01:47 PM, said:



You like how he ignored my post?

I didnt ignore your post, I replied about it in another post. I said  in that post that even if someone else welded on it, it should not matter. And I explained that SMB told me I could get it welded locally. Maybe you need to read first.

Also, I have not said what I am going to do about it yet. I am waiting to see what SMB says.

Edited by YoungQuestFan, 02 September 2011 - 03:40 PM.

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#33 Scotty Dont

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 03:44 PM

View PostYoungQuestFan, on 02 September 2011 - 03:39 PM, said:

I didnt ignore your post, I replied about it in another post. I said in that post that even if someone else welded on it, it should not matter. And I explained that SMB told me I could get it welded locally. Maybe you need to read first. Also, I have not said what I am going to do about it yet. I am waiting to see what SMB says.

Comment on the wastegate and how you have it mounted!
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#34 Chad

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 05:27 PM

The way a wastegate is mounted is dictated by the flange location, which is a part of the deisign of the manifold, decided by the fabricator, it is not user error.  It also doesn't explain the new crack on the number 1 runner at the head flange ;)

It was fixed the first time under warranty by the origional builder.  It quickly failed again in the same location, so authorizaton was given by the origional builder to have it fixed localy, and it was, by a certified welder.  It failed again, in the same locaton and in the same way within a week.  It now also shows cracks elsewhere.  I don't see any user error here.  I an told there is a flex secton in the exhaust to limit exhaust pipe loading, so I can't really see anything else that coudl have been done to prevent this from an end-user point.  the product simply filed, and is doign so for a particular reason, one that can't be fixed with more welding and gussets, which has already been proven by the use of added weldign an gussets.

If this is failing due to excess EGT's then obviosuly the wrong material has been used.  That soudl be part of the design.  It' is assumed that the manifold will be put to extreme use, so build it with some headroom.  It makes no sense to sell a performance product that should be used at or below stock performanc levels/EGT's.

If coating is prerequisite, it shoudl come that way.  the coating needs to be inside, not outside, and coating the inside of a used manifold is a crap-shoot at best due to surface contaminaton, so it's too late to fix this one.

If it needs to be heat cycled, why not cycle that before it's installed in a kiln/oven,  that shouldn't be prerquisite for the end user, and if it is, that needs to be clearly explaiend.  Heat cycling doesn't make sense from metalurgaly perspectve anyway, not if you actually study the subject.    It would take about  1700 F to truly stress relieve it.  The metal needs to go into solution state to relive that stress.  Problem is, then it woudl be soft as butter and fail from simple metal fatigue due to the alloys used.

I hope this finds some happy ending, it just sucks to see and I hate to watch it happen.  I had the same feeligns bout the MK manifold, but as stated earlier, many won't listen.  I sure as hell don't want to see another vendor get run off.  I see a lot of innovation and out-of-the-box thinking in SMB products, so lets try to keep this civil.  No lynchings please  :D

And yes, I've had product failures too, so I know what it's like to be on the the other end of this situation.

#35 NotStock88

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 05:43 PM

View PostChad, on 02 September 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

The way a wastegate is mounted is dictated by the flange location, which is a part of the deisign of the manifold, decided by the fabricator, it is not user error.  It also doesn't explain the new crack on the number 1 runner at the head flange ;)

It was fixed the first time under warranty by the origional builder.  It quickly failed again in the same location, so authorizaton was given by the origional builder to have it fixed localy, and it was, by a certified welder.  It failed again, in the same locaton and in the same way within a week.  It now also shows cracks elsewhere.  I don't see any user error here.  I an told there is a flex secton in the exhaust to limit exhaust pipe loading, so I can't really see anything else that coudl have been done to prevent this from an end-user point.  the product simply filed, and is doign so for a particular reason, one that can't be fixed with more welding and gussets, which has already been proven by the use of added weldign an gussets.

If this is failing due to excess EGT's then obviosuly the wrong material has been used.  That soudl be part of the design.  It' is assumed that the manifold will be put to extreme use, so build it with some headroom.  It makes no sense to sell a performance product that should be used at or below stock performanc levels/EGT's.

If coating is prerequisite, it shoudl come that way.  the coating needs to be inside, not outside, and coating the inside of a used manifold is a crap-shoot at best due to surface contaminaton, so it's too late to fix this one.

If it needs to be heat cycled, why not cycle that before it's installed in a kiln/oven,  that shouldn't be prerquisite for the end user, and if it is, that needs to be clearly explaiend.  Heat cycling doesn't make sense from metalurgaly perspectve anyway, not if you actually study the subject. It would take about  1700 F to truly stress relieve it.  The metal needs to go into solution state to relive that stress.  Problem is, then it woudl be soft as butter and fail from simple metal fatigue due to the alloys used.

I hope this finds some happy ending, it just sucks to see and I hate to watch it happen.  I had the same feeligns bout the MK manifold, but as stated earlier, many won't listen.  I sure as hell don't want to see another vendor get run off.  I see a lot of innovation and out-of-the-box thinking in SMB products, so lets try to keep this civil.  No lynchings please  :D

And yes, I've had product failures too, so I know what it's like to be on the the other end of this situation.
finally chimed in... I was waiting for this.

I hope things work out for the best in this situation.
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#36 starquestJOE

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 06:47 PM

well chad if you sat down and made a manifold to buy, we would not have to take a chance. i tried for to years to get you to make one. never happened. i paid chris and had a manifold 2weeks later. only thing i got from you was i'll let you know

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#37 SOTTY

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:15 PM

Well peeps , off goes yet another vendor and a innovative one at that chased off SQKC , how many is that now ?
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#38 BrazilBoy

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 07:47 PM

View PostSOTTY, on 02 September 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

Well peeps , off goes yet another vendor and a innovative one at that chased off SQKC , how many is that now ?
How many? Too many that is... Chris is one of the most talented I have yet scene... We not only lost just a vendor but a resource too... Hope everyone is happy.... This has been issue number one for a long time here, folks are so quick to burn a man down.. If only they were as quick to acknowledge his good works... But thats the hater band wagon most hop on here, without thought or consideration for a fellow quester going above and beyond for their community....
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#39 QuestFan

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 08:00 PM

View PostBrazilBoy, on 02 September 2011 - 07:47 PM, said:

How many? Too many that is... Chris is one of the most talented I have yet scene... We not only lost just a vendor but a resource too... Hope everyone is happy.... This has been issue number one for a long time here, folks are so quick to burn a man down.. If only they were as quick to acknowledge his good works... But thats the hater band wagon most hop on here, without thought or consideration for a fellow quester going above and beyond for their community....

Hater band wagon? Really dude? You are one to talk. No one said Chris's abilitys suck or what ever you want to throw out there to try and make me look like a bad guy.

I spent $300 +++ on something that has failed numerous times and had to be repaired by the creator.

SMB has potential and great talent. He just used the wrong materials. Simple mistake. All he has to do is use a better material and problem solved.

You are quick to jump at the assumption that SMB isnt going to make this right and is just going to blow it off and leave.
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#40 QuestFan

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 08:07 PM

SMB has offered to repair it once again. He also stated he would cover shipping costs to and from. I have not decided what I am going to do yet. I really hate to try it once again and it fail again and have to pull it off a fourth time.

The manifold obviously can not hold up to my conditions regardless, so why try to repair it a third time. This time with bigger issues.

Like I said, lets get more members to run their units through a few weeks worth of heat cycles. If they hold up then you can rag on me and say what ever you want to make me look like a bad guy.
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