Elias Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 i'm just starting to get into autocrossing & need to find out what type of setup is bets for our cars :-/. I know a few guys here are into autoX'ng. i have an 88 TSI that has KYB struts & Yokohama AVS tires, everything else is stock. what can i do to get the car to handle better? Thanks Elias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr._HP Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Well, it's going to be tough to get it handling much better without spending some money to get things adjustable. In stock form you can only play with your alignment since there's no camber or castor adjustment without aftermarket plates to allow this. I've spent the money and time to work out a great set-up that works for auto-x and is completely glued to the road for street driving. I've got Stedebani poly bushings, camber/castor plates (front and rear), ground control coil-overs, revalved tokico's, & Stedebani strut braces front and rear. I've got my front camber set at -2.0 degrees (may increase to -2.5), rear camber at -1.5, front toe out 1/4", and can't remember castor right now. It took me a few tries to get it to this point and with my G-tech I've been able to pull over 1G on an auto-x course. That's also with Kuhmo victoracer tires which would put you into a race tire class... For you in stock form, I would suggest at least getting some springs to help stiffen the car, and lower your center of gravity. Then get some beefed up swaybars with poly swaybar bushings. This alone will help the car out greatly! THe problem with that set-up is the tendancy of the car to understeer prior to an oversteer transition. This will really kill your times in an auto-x since you'll be sliding both entering the corner, and then again exiting while steering with the rear of the car. If you've got the 8" front and 9" rear wheels then you've got some good meat on the road... If not, then you need to do that too. Then you can start playing with wheel spacers to widen your track a little bit. A 5-10mm wheel spacer inthe front really helps to get rid of the understeer! I've worked anysign of understeer out of my car without the spacers and use them for some added grip through fast transition sections of the course. So either way you've got to spend some time & money to get it to handle well on the track. If you spend the $1600 or so on getting a fullout set-up like I did you won't regret it!!! Then you'll need to get a harness to hold you in the seat because without it, you'll be the one getting tossed around inside the car. Starquests are great cars for auto-xing because they are so nuetral in their handling that it's easy to recover, and you've got the rear wheel drive to help you out in some situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted July 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Thanks for the input. i'll look into getting a few of those items in the near future. i'm going to run the car as-is so that i can get a base time of what it can do in stock form & then start the mods Thanks again Elias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 I have Auto-Xed for about 10 years. Don't worry about how to set up the car at first, just worry about learning to drive what you have. Most of the Mods list above will kill you in class or PACS index, just leave the car alone figue out the best tire pressure for your car and run that. Once you start to get a feel for the car then start changing things. For the record I have an '89 TSi with sport suspension, I raced that car unmodified for 8 years and was in the top three in class most of the time. The car was unbeaten in FS from 97-00. I had a 2nd place in 01 in GS. I spent 02 rebuilding the car and will race it again in August still in GS. Auto-Xings is not about how much you spend but about how good a driver you are. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted July 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 thanks Todd i'll keep that in mind. my car runs great & handles very good compaired to how it was with the worn out struts. anyway i'll try it out the way it is. Thanks Elias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr._HP Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 I have Auto-Xed for about 10 years.  Don't worry about how to set up the car at first, just worry about learning to drive what you have.  Most of the Mods list above will kill you in class or PACS index, just leave the car alone figue out the best tire pressure for your car and run that.  Once you start to get a feel for the car then start changing things. For the record I have an '89 TSi with sport suspension, I raced that car unmodified for 8 years and was in the top three in class most of the time.  The car was unbeaten in FS from 97-00.  I had a 2nd place in 01 in GS.  I spent 02 rebuilding the car and will race it again in August still in GS. That's all true, but I giving him the set-up I've got to give him an idea of what works. I reaced mine car stock, and it almost all driver, but only to a point. After I rebuilt my car to the current set-up, the experience and thrill of auto-xing has doubled!!! The speed that I can carry now on the same course is unreal ;D Although I had to change class it's been a relative transition. I consistantly place second next to an almost untouchable M3 Auto-Xings is not about how much you spend but about how good a driver you are. Todd  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Oh I absolutely agree that the mods make Auto-Xing a lot more fun. The car is an animal with Yokohama 032R's instead of street tires. I don't think I would have appreciated the improvements had I not spent the time to learn the car in a completly stock form first and then stated tweaking. I have raced an '87, '88, and an '89 sport. The sport is by far the best version to race. If you don't know how to figue out tire pressures the simplest way is to chalk the outside edge and adjust the pressure according to where you rub the chalk off. (more pressure if you are on the side wall and less if you are not on the edge of the tread) How agresively you drive will also make a difference, that is why I said to learn how to drive the car first. I use about 31 lbs in the front and 26 lbs. in the back. Start about five to 10 pounds higher and work down. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr._HP Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Wow, those pressures sound low to me. I'm running on Kuhmo Victoracer's and have the front at 34psi, and rear at 32psi. Even at those pressures I could go up a bit in the front as I am wearing the edge a bit more than I'd like. I hear ya about appreciating the car more after the mods! I am amazed at how hard this car can drive now with my previously mentioned suspension set-up It's absolutely amazing the speed you can carry without any worry of losing it. THese cars are so easy to recover also, that you don't mind pushing the limit all the time! Have you cross balanced your car? I noticed a good improvement through slalom sections and fast transitions, and even lost a little bit of understeer that was left after alignment tweaks. The car darts with a quickness I've only felt in a few cars at the track, and it's glued to the pavement... I could use a break upgrade since I'm still using the stock brakes, but the braided lines, upgraded fluid and Hawk Pads really make it haul down with the stock equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Sound like we have similar improvments. The 032R's have such a stiff sidewall that its hard to get it to roll over unless I really overdrive the car. The tire guy really cringes when I come in to mount new tires Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted July 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 are you guys still using the stock 16" rims & stock tire size or did you go bigger? i have the 7" & 8" rims with 225/50r16 in frt & 245/45r16 rear, Yokohama AVS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 225ZR-50-16 Yokohama 032R on 8" rims up front, 245ZR-45-16 Yokohama 032R on 9" rims on the back. The tires are heat cycled and were purchased from TireRack. The rims are the stock rim with sport suspension. I also have a spare set of stock sport rims with Dunlap SP8000's for the street. I will be out of town until next week, talk to you later. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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