what do you need for a 12 sec. car?

[svo]

without using nitrous how can you make a 12 sec. conquest and how much will it cost?  

[Juggary]

You will need a good running top and bottom engine, and a big turbo like a T3/T4 or bigger and using a boost controller with the 88 ECU running high boost.  You need to be using a high volume fuel pump, complete 3" exhaust and a good clutch that grip like ACT, and RPS clutch.  You will need to reduce the weight of the car so get rid of all the stuff that you won't need lik spare tire and run with only a 1/4 tank of gas and you need to have good traction so try to use slick tires with low tire pressure when your on the track, also an Automatic tranny will help.   These mods should get to the high 12 seconds.

[KevinL87tsi]

preferably forged pistons (to be on the safe side), jetvalveless mechanical adjuster head to rev rev rev! (uncracked), bigger cam, heavy duty valve springs, 3 inch exhaust (mandrel bent), some serious fuel additives (multi-port fuel injection), fuel management computer, a tranny that is in good shape, aftermarket clutch, lightened flywheel, blowoff valve, aftermarket boost gauge, upgraded fuel pump, bigger turbo (t3/t4, 20g), upgraded intercooler, intercooler hardpipes, rodded radiator, air fuel ratio meter, boost controller, ... looking at around 8-10k   :

[ESIrType?]

Umm.......let's back up the love train here. Yes engine mod's are going to help. Did you ever think a Mighty Max could help? For not a whole lot of $$ you can pick up a rear-end for the 3:90 or 4:10 gears. 4:10's will help allot!!

[StarionBoy]

Iam gonna try for 12.9 on street tires on pump gas 93/94 octane.  ;D

This is what my car has already, good running stock motor with 30K on it, full 3inch exhaust, BOV, boost and air/fuel gauge

Stuff not installed yet: Crane ingnition amp and coil, 94 supra side mount intercooler, 18G, 284cam, HKS EVC IV, 1st gen mass.

Stuff i have to order next month Chard MPI, fuel pump

Iam getting there, My goal as stated before is high 12's on street tires, with 93/94 octane, I might be dreaming but iam sure gonna f#$%& give it all I got. Its just that it takes so much time which I dont have.

Lemme get some input guys, is it possible??!! ???

[Boosted_One]

I don't see 12's on pump gas. I have never known any Starions in the 12's on pump gas. Even way back when Danzig was hitting high 12's and that was on some race petro.

 

Even the DSM boys are running some higher octane than what comes out of the pump.

 

Here is an article that I am kinda getting at:

 

http://www.sdsefi.com/tech400.htm

[BuGG]

Wierd I remember Danzig and he was running hyper-U's in his engine and he liked them.  He also had the t3/t4 that TEP sells.  He was a great addition to these boards and I miss him.

 

 

 

BuGG

[ESIrType?]

As far as pump gas, you can add stuff to raise the octain....read this page has some great info.

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/gasoline-octane.html

You would still be using pump gas....you'll just have to add alittle something-something to you go-go juice.

[Ratmtattat]

Umm.......let's back up the love train here. Yes engine mod's are going to help. Did you ever think a Mighty Max could help? For not a whole lot of $$ you can pick up a rear-end for the 3:90 or 4:10 gears. 4:10's will help allot!!

 

Wow...I really like that? Has anybody swapped the rear end's to the 4:10 ratios?  That would help immensely.  I could see it taking a second off of the stock quarter mile time (3:54 rear end stock) at least.  I'll have to check into that stuff. Is the MM rear end a LSD?

[Boosted_One]

Wierd I remember Danzig and he was running hyper-U's in his engine and he liked them.  He also had the t3/t4 that TEP sells.  He was a great addition to these boards and I miss him.

 

 

 

BuGG

 

Danzig had problems with the hyper u's. He then dumped the T3/T4 and went with a CNM 20G.

 

He didn't like the hyper u's in the end.

 

On another note...pump gas is pump gas. When you add anything to pump gas it is not pump gas as the octane _should_ be higher than that out of the pump.

 

Saying pump gas is still pump gas with octane booster in it is like saying kool aid is still water.

[PiercedJD]

just a thought, but how exactly are those gears going to help you?

 

you may come out of the hole harder, but you are definitely going to lose top end, and you are NOT hitting a 12 with less than 100+ mph traps.

 

what does your starion tach out at? cause you'll be seeing that a lot sooner.

[StarionBoy]

So, high 12's is impossible on 93/94 octane, how come DSM guys run high 12's with 20G and all they have is a 2.0

Iam going to set up my car with enough fuel for 400HP (Chad's MPI), Crane ignition, 18G/20G or this guy locally he puts a garrett wheel in our stock 12A which flows 620cfm.  284 camshaft.

TEP has a starquest on there web page with stock fuel setup and a 16g and they are running 13.8.

I was under the impression that it would take approx. 50hp more to be a second faster - with a bigger turbo, excellent fuel, and better ignition - I thought i'd be able to accomplish that.

I still dont understand how these WRX and DSM guys put out more HP then we possible can?  ??? ???

Thanx for all the input u guys throw at me.

[Joel]

High 12's on pump are not impossible... but are improbable. There is no record of anyone being able to accomplish this yet.

 

the DSMs and WRX "guys" have better designed cylinder heads (2 more values, quench area, and a more up-to-date chamber design for boost). We have catch up to do before we get to them.

 

I would do ALOT of research before you just start throwing big money parts like big turbos, huge injectors, MPI, and all the sorts. I will GARUNTEE if thats what you do, in 2 years you will be disappointed, and you will sell the car, pissed off with empty pockets. I suggest you read up, and watch and learn from some of the others experiances here.

 

With that said... Our displacement should let is TOUCH the 12s... *IF* we can get it to make power above 4000RPM worth a damn. Still may require lead.

 

Joel

[StarionBoy]

I have been reading a lot about these, I been on these boards since 96-97, I guess I just have to try it out myself, and if it dosent work out as fast I want it, its still ok because Starquests are my absolute favorite cars ;D. So, selling the car and all the sad stuff is not happening !!!

I remember CNM claiming to run high 12's with their 20G's with stock TBI

Is there anyone on this board that was able to get high 12' s in there quest and what was ther formula with what gas.

Thanx in advance.

[heefner]

Whats the big deal about dumping in a few gallons of turbo blue (110 oct.) befor you run at the track?  You don't have to run 25 psi all the time and when you're on the street set the boost back to 18psi and run a good 92 or 93 or whatever gas you can get at the pump in your neighboor hood.  I think your gonna need 300+ whp to get into the 12's unless you put the quest on a serious diet.  To get there your gonna need MPI, a good exahust, i/c, and of course a solid motor that will take the punsihment.  If you want specifics, check out the specs on the Fuel Injection Specialist car. http://users.starpower.net/mtech/

[ESIrType?]

PiercedJD....it's pretty simple....rear gears allow you to run through the trans-gears quicker. I don't think you're going to tach-out with 4:10's on a 1/4 mile.

[Joel]

I have been reading a lot about these, I been on these boards since 96-97, I guess I just have to try it out myself, and if it dosent work out as fast I want it, its still ok because Starquests are my absolute favorite cars ;D. So, selling the car and all the sad stuff is not happening !!!

I remember CNM claiming to run high 12's with their 20G's with stock TBI

Is there anyone on this board that was able to get high 12' s in there quest and what was ther formula with what gas.

Thanx in advance.

 

There is no availible proof that CNM's claims (or even TEPs claims) are true.

 

You can get to the 12s on the TBI and a 20G, but it _REQUIRES_ lead.

 

Joel

[Questsi]

WRX's and most DSM's have a 50% higher chance of running 12's than us because they have 50% more traction  :'(AWD :'(  than us poor rear wheel drive conquests.  You can have a 400-500hp Starquest, but without traction you are just gonna sit there and spin, unless you launch it right, and God knows there is a very small margin for error there...launch it too high=spin  launch too low=bog.  THEY MAY BE FASTER THAN US, BUT WE LOOK NICER RUNING DOWN THE TRACK ;D

[Joel]

Yeah, except that RWD is better than AWD in the long run. For 12s or for stop light to stop light, AWD kicks a**. Throw on some 25 dollar/peice tires and you got garunteed 1.8 short times.

 

If you can put some good low torque down and get a 1.4 short time or lower, you front tires aren't even touching the ground... AWD doesn't really help you there much.

 

Joel

[PiercedJD]

PiercedJD....it's pretty simple....rear gears allow you to run through the trans-gears quicker. I don't think you're going to tach-out with 4:10's on a 1/4 mile.

 

I don't think you'll tach out either, however that's a lot of gear banging in a game where you are worried about dropping TENTHS of seconds off of your time. you also better bring a good tire or you'll be traction limited for the first 60'-1/8th mile with that tall a gear.

 

I thought enough people on here had determined that the 4.22:1 gears were too tall for the starion, and that the 3.90:1 or 3.54:1 were better suited.

 

and it WILL definitely limit your top end. and I hope with that gear you aren't intending to highway drive it.

 

I can go on..............

[Technology]

WRX's and most DSM's have a 50% higher chance of running 12's than us because they have 50% more traction  :'(AWD :'(  than us poor rear wheel drive conquests.  

 

 

wouldn't that be 100% more traction than us?  if two wheels = 100% traction to start out with, two more is another 100%, so, yeah.

[PiercedJD]

also to counter the awd vs. rwd thing.

 

awd is also experiencing a higher drivetrain loss.

 

and it is proven they are losing on the big end.

 

if an awd and a rwd are running the same E.T.s the RWD will trap higher. ditto for fwd.

 

that also is why a number of larger shops *cough* Buschur *cough* Extreme *cough* OSOFAST*cough* are all running rwd's now instead of awd.

[jinx]

2.6 is just another motor.... handicapped by the TBI and distributor ignition - but blessed with a good head on a solid bottom end. U can tweak oe for respectable performance;

Danzig 12.7, Tracy 11.3 (nos), Frank's efforts, even on 12A... etc

If u wanna run with the big dogs, go mpfi. Its all in the management (with careful matching parts selection of course).

There are quite a few excellent performing examples that have laid out their recipee over the years.... just copy 'em.

 

Didn't Rollo run 11.2 with a _simple_ combo ? 20G, cam, tecII.

Do you realize how fast that is for a street car ? F%*#kin nuts!  He posted details all along while he frequented trances bbs. Don't let anybody fool u about the 2.6s capability... and u don't need any DOHC on a boosted motor- ask Sakura, GNs, 2.3 Fords. Look at what toyota "little" 3tc has done to every honda, from 2.2L on down, despite all the $$$$$$ behind 'em.

 

2.6 already has enough torque for the 3.54s... you'll buzz on the highway with lower gearset

 

There is a good magna turbo article where the guy experimented with all sortsa cams, pistons, etc. He documented his project.... Traction was non-existent until the top of third (fwd)... so he's going with a  starion platform. Good stuff

[StarionBoy]

thanx,  ;D

[Joel]

Rolo's best time was done on who knows what exact setup. I believe it was a T3/T4, 75 shot of nitrous, EIP pistons/rods, EIP Intake, TEC II, 20psi of boost.. I believe it was a 11.18 or a 11.85, can't remember. That was on very leaded gas.

 

If I remember right, he bought a package deal from EIP.

He told me he pushes 585hp to the wheels on 30psi no nitrous, but wouldn't run that at the track for fear of blowing the head gasket. So he ran the boost down to 20 and used the nitrous.

 

Joel