ZacMan Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Can someone explain the relationship between the AFR and VE tables for me, in relation to open loop operation? I've tuned a few air flow metered cars before, but have never played around with a speed density setup like the megasquirt. It seems to me that you'd attempt to get the VE table as close as possible to the true VE of the engine, at all the load and rpm points, then tune the fuel delivery using the AFR table? However when I read about people tuning vehicles with megaquirts, they always talk about altering the VE table to adjust the fuel delivery. If the AFR table also adjusts the fuel delivery, it could get confusing adjusting two places that contribute to the fueling equations. I've seen it a few times when reading about people tuning the fuel side of things, they post both VE and AFR tables. Their AFR table at a certain load/rpm point might say 12.5:1, but they really want 11.0:1, so they adjust their VE table at this point to achieve an 11.0:1 AFR, leaving the cell in the AFR table at 12.5:1. My train of thought is that you'd begin with a base VE table for your engine, hopefully with similar modifications to yours if you can find one, and set a safe (rich) AFR table. You then drive, and log, and drive, and log, and drive, and log.... Adjusting your VE table till the real world AFR's match your AFR table. When you get these two as matched as you can, you know your VE table is a good representation of the true VE of your engine. Now you can adjust your fueling using the AFR table to improve economy and power. This ofcourse becomes more complicated still when you then try to optimised your spark table to really get some power out of your engine, and this in turn alters the VE... so you need to repeat the process.... Drive and log and so on ;-). Is it a case of the AFR table being used solely for closed loop operation, with a wideband sensor used for feedback? I'll megasquirt one of my cars one day, looks to be a heap of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Phil Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Its an AFR "target" table. The ECU uses it to inch closer to the target if you happen to be a little off. Its priority is what you set it to. VE table IS you overall fuel table. When tuning, the first thing I do is turn off any target assist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacMan Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Interesting, cheers for the info. Still seems very odd to have a table name Volumetric Efficiency, but not have it actually represent the volumetric efficiency of the engine. However, what works, works, and there are plenty of people out there getting awesome results, so who am I to question? :-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87questkid Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Whats the new ms or tuner can you use with fc1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted March 25, 2014 Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 Anyone care to share a 12 x 12 map i can use with ms1 3.0 looking for a fuel map to start with to tune from thanks in advance oh my mods are magna with 35r turbo and 1000 cc inj's for now direct fire single coil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Anyone care to share a 12 x 12 map i can use with ms1 3.0 looking for a fuel map to start with to tune from thanks in advance oh my mods are magna with 35r turbo and 1000 cc inj's for now direct fire single coil.http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/skullzaflare/Untitled_zpsfac614ba.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Phil Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/skullzaflare/Untitled_zpsfac614ba.jpg Is that an autotune/ve analyzer map? That thing is super random. What are your corrections set to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Is that an autotune/ve analyzer map? That thing is super random. What are your corrections set to?It's from mega analyze trying to compensate for accel settings, the even green going diagonal is from a 2 hour drive. I haven't smoothed anything yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 should i still try this as a base map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Phil Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 It's from mega analyze trying to compensate for accel settings, the even green going diagonal is from a 2 hour drive. I haven't smoothed anything yet ahh, if I were you, Id set more strict filtering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 should i still try this as a base map?its not for a driving base for you to start, you should never run someone elses exact fuel map. it will help you get runningit will also vary by what you have injector open and engine requirements set at 1000cc injectors8 blade hx35 @ 21psi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Anyone else got a 12 x 12 ms1 3.0 i have 1000 cc injectors if that matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 My car starts purrs like a kitten i am just tiring to get a little closer to see what i might be close to! i am going on the dyno tomorrow night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliConquestAlex Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/skullzaflare/Untitled_zpsfac614ba.jpg You should use the blend button on the table to normalize the upper left and lower right quadrants of your table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 You should use the blend button on the table to normalize the upper left and lower right quadrants of your table.i already manually smoothed it out earlier this morning, though i havent flashed it yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 i already manually smoothed it out earlier this morning, though i havent flashed it yet I gave your map a quick try i did smooth it out and i have to say it worked like a charm i clocked on 50 miles this morning alone i am on my way the car is running awesome compared to before thank you for the map will keep you updated after dyno tune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skullzaflare Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I gave your map a quick try i did smooth it out and i have to say it worked like a charm i clocked on 50 miles this morning alone i am on my way the car is running awesome compared to before thank you for the map will keep you updated after dyno tunenp, as long as it helps, keep an eye on afr's and dont let it lean out, course you are mainly using it for the out of boost cruising for the dyno tune right?VE tables will also fluctuate depending what your timing VE table is runningi go back and forth between the "safe" timing table, and psu_CRASH's hx35 timing table, fuel VE alters from the timing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stariondreams Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 got a couple more data logs would like someone to check out my tunehttp://www.mediafire.com/view/h7k7ju6xtzos09z/CurrentTune.msq logshttp://www.mediafire.com/view/2o5fawb9yv306x1/2014-04-08_19.06.59.msl http://www.mediafire.com/view/20dlh479ltwupv1/2014-04-08_18.34.25.msl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooBoys 88 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Hey guys please post your <!--coloro:black--><span style="color:black"><!--/coloro-->Constants<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, <!--coloro:black--><span style="color:black"><!--/coloro-->Ignition<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, and <!--coloro:black--><span style="color:black"><!--/coloro-->VE Tables<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> to help those who are just starting in MPI and could use a good set of base maps. <b>Please list:</b> <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->Injector Size<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->Octane Rating<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->Turbo & PSI Running<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->Style of Ignition<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> Thanks guys I will have my Tables/Maps up as soon as I know there good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooBoys 88 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Well I'm running megasquirt2 on the magna intake tc05turbo ported to 20g 15lbs boost and stock wiesco pistons shnider cam and springs plus over sized 1 mm valves 2.5 exhust. What table can you give me or do I need to record mine and send you the info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Datalog, datalog, datalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliConquestAlex Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 Like Scott said. Once the engine is running at all, start data logging. Disable all enrichments like acceleration and warm up to get a clear view of how the tables are directly impacting the running conditions. and you can try to rev at idle and hold certain rpms to determine if you need to add or remove fuel. Obviously you need a good wideband o2 sensor for any kind of tuning with megasquirt. Once you get a fuel and ignition table that will let you rev the car without any major hesitation, you can tune the acceleration enrichment bins. After tuning those, you're ready for a test drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooBoys 88 Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Thanks guys I appreciate the help gonna take to dyno and find out what's my engine doing? Scott is it worth it for my set up to use the mk1 trigger wheel set up I have and LS1 coils after the car is tuned??? How do I connect my megasquirt2 directly to the trigger cause I really wanna do it but I'm stuck on the build with that?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DooBoys 88 Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Also my fuel maps were from you Scott I think you had a link just with a map for starting the car and getting it to drive like to a dyno and most of everything else is not being used so it's got that and drove my car for yrs like thy with no problems in till is stab it and the car goes over 5000 I start to run lean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts