ml2hip Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 hello everybody, i jus purchased my first starion, its a flat body 1984 black turbo esi i found it dying under a redwood tree deep in the santa cruz mountains, the guy i got it from said it had been sitting for a while when i got it home, it would turn over and do nothing but an occasional back fire, changed the firing order to what i found in an online service manual, then it would turn over with an occasional firing and almost start up, when i got it the down pipe was off the car, the dude told me that the cat was clogged up and he took it off, so i gutted it out completely and put it on so i could put the O2 sensor on, now the car starts up and runs for maybe 5 to 10 seconds and dies i took off the fuel line and it squirts plenty when i turn it over, i looked for vacuum leeks but there are so many lines i dont know if they are all hooked up right, i put all new spark plugs and the guy i got it from said the wires and cap are new, i tested, and got spark on all plugs so now im stuck, please if u guys have any words of wisdom thanks, and great forum, when i get my car workin im sure i will be glued to this site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) Welcome and thank you for having good taste in your purchase..Nice Flatty Step One: Drain gas tank completey, pull it and take it to a radiator shop they will clean it out for you. Why if it has been sitting rust is most likely in the tank Step Two: Change inj. clips, fuel filter, oil, and PCV valve. Remove injectors and get them cleaned. Step Three: Put it back together then post your progress and we wil help you from there... FYI do not run her until that tank is at least drained and fresh high octane is put in... Injector Clips Edited February 18, 2009 by BRAZILBOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberquest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) also do tons and tons of reading and research here! http://starquest.i-x.net/viewforum.php?f=12 Edited February 18, 2009 by cyberquest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrophage Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 on the for real tip get ready to spend dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberquest Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 on the for real tip get ready to spend dough. only if you try to make the go faster. never seen anyone go over budget returning one to stock running condition. budgets get blown with larger turbos, hardpipes, so on and so forth. but any member with some free time and handful of misc parts could probably help get the car running like a champ for next to nothing for this guy. you only have to have deep pockets if you are trying to go fast. a reliable stock driver is not any more expensive then any other car in my book . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrazilBoy Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Try removing the air filter and start it up. The filter might be clogged. First, you can simply unclip the air filter lid to see if it stays running like that. When I bought my '85 it was in similar condition from sitting about 3 years. I removed the OVCP and sprayed a little ether in the TB and it started right up, but the injectors were stuck. I've seen that happen 3 times from cars that sat. Try that too. That means most likely the injectors must be pulled and at least get them unstuck with some brake clean and 30 PSI of compressed air to blow in the pintle end. You will see the brake clean come out the other end. Don't use too much air pressure or you can hurt the injector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml2hip Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 thanks for all the tips, i took the injectors off and both of them spray really good, i put new pcv valve and new gas in the tank, the fuel filter under the hood is new, is their one in the tank or in the lines, i am taking the tank to a shop to clean it tomarrow, i think it may have been rusty. if the injector clips look okay and like they have been replaced before, should i still replace them again or r they okay? the car does start but only runs for 10 seconds now, when i throtle at all, it bogs out and dies the air filter is clean to thanks for the help guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedyquest Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 may as well check proper timing too, cant hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMeyerhoff Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 if the injector clips look okay and like they have been replaced before, should i still replace them again or r they okay? the car does start but only runs for 10 seconds now, when i throtle at all, it bogs out and dies Look at the contact within the clip and the male prongs on the injectors. If they look anything but clean and shiny, replace the clips and clean the injector prongs. The goal is to have a good electrical connection. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattopMike Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 There are a total of 3 fuel filters. The big one under the hood, the screen at the end of the pick up tube and there is one inside the line at the fuel pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 There are a total of 3 fuel filters. The big one under the hood, the screen at the end of the pick up tube and there is one inside the line at the fuel pump. Wrong, there are 5 filters. One above each injector as well. And you are messing with the wrong place, your injectors are ok to start it. Unplug the mass air sensor and try again. A bad mass air sensor will kill the car after the car it goes from closed loop to open loop. If you don't have it plugged in, it'll go to "limp mode" which on your car might even work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Wrong, there are 5 filters. One above each injector as well. And you are messing with the wrong place, your injectors are ok to start it. Unplug the mass air sensor and try again. A bad mass air sensor will kill the car after the car it goes from closed loop to open loop. If you don't have it plugged in, it'll go to "limp mode" which on your car might even work better. Correct, and those screens above the injectors are very fine and will clog with the slightest bit of rust. I had that problem with the CBRII when I got it running. It would die and I realized the screens kept clogging with rust, so I cleaned out the tank, and had the screens on and off a few times until the lines cleaned out. However, the car will not run without the MAS pugged in. It is simple enough to try, but to really check the MAS, you must replace it with a known good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I dunno, my friend's 89 idled ok without it plugged in. That's how we found out it was bad. I was thinking maybe the 84s are like the 86s where it might run better w/o the MAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Ahh, I thought you meant it would run better as in some '86's for unkown reasons. My bad. It will probably idle without it to see if the MAS is what is making it cut-off. That is worth trying for sure. It just won't drive with enough power to get out of its own way without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml2hip Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 so unpluging the mas air didnt change anything, the injector clips looked okay, but i ordered new ones any way, i was told that if it starts and reves up and dies, which it does do, i must have a big vacuum leak or over boost, does anyone know what might cause such thing as over boost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierquest Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 check the boot from the air filter to the turbo make sure there are no cracks, splits or tears. Also check the vacumme line from the brake booster to the manifold. And to check the rest of the lines just look around for a while follow some to their source to see they are hooked up, that is really all you can do.. Most will be on the intake side of the engine bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Make sure the pipe from the turbo to the throttle body does not leak too. I would also make sure the fuel supply is constant. remove the return line and then remove the starter signal wire. You can get to the wire from the top side. Look with a flashlight to see it. It is normally a spade that simply pulls off. Then hit the key and see if fuel keeps flowing for a few seconds. You can also put power to the fuel pump test connection wire to make sure it stays running. The pump could be stopping, or a filter could be clogged to not allow enough fuel to stay running. Check the plug wires for spark at the end that connects to the plug. Make sure the wires are in the correct order on the cap. You need to figure out what the car is losing when it dies. Either fuel, spark, or air. Another possibility is cam timing. Put the crank at TDC and pull the VC to check if the dowel pin on the cam gear is at 12:00. Inspect the cam and rockers while you have the VC off. Make sure the little wires to the coil are intact and making good connection. They are known to fray and or the connector gets loose and comes off and on by itself. Same with the fuse links near the battery. Check their connections and check the wires for integrity. Check the main plug to the fuse link box on the bottom of the box. It is known to come loose for intermittent connection too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Also, there is an '84 that looks exactly like yours that a guy is going to part out. Look in the For Sale forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Crud in the fuel tank clobbers the fuel pump too. A weak fuel pump causes symptoms like you're describing: engine (may) start, idles for a few seconds, then dies as the pump is too weak to keep up with the engine's gas needs. Just having "good flow into a catch jar" isn't really a test... the pump needs to supply sufficient fuel pressure as well. Weak pumps can make pressure at zero flow (i.e. pump hooked to a pressure gauge - this is "dead head" pressure and is 60 to 80psi on a good factory pump) or can flow what seems like a lot of gas at zero pressure (hose aimed at a glass or plastic catch jar)... a GOOD pump will generate 60psi while flowing a large quantity of gas too. The ONLY way to test a pump (on the car) is to put a pressure guage on the hose from the engine-bay fuel filter to the "injector cover" (top of throttle body) or to put the guage into the port at the back of the injector cover - you'll find a hex plug tightly screwed in there. Watch the fuel pressure while the engine runs... if it doesn't maintain 36psi the pump is bad or the filters/pickup have issues. There is a "sock" filter on the end of the pick-up tube in the fuel tank. Spray carb cleaner will clean this. There is a small cone shaped filter in the rubber hose at the fuel pump inlet; this one often gets gunked shut. Spray carb cleaner to the rescue again. You can get to both of these through the access panel in the rear/driver side trunk area, next to the spare tire. Clean the round cover plate before removing it so you don't knock mud/crud into the fuel tank. Other filters: Engine bay primary filter. Screens above each injector. Some folks have had the rubber hose from the fuel filter to the injector cover break down internally - like an old brake hose that rots - limiting fuel flow. You can hack the metal sleeves at each end of this cable (preserving the metal parts inside the rubber hose) and replace the hose with FUEL INJECTION rated fuel hose from the auto parts store plus 4 good screw-clamps if your factory fuel hose is junk. mike c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 A start and die issue is many times fuel, so that is why I think the focus should be there first. I was basically trying to give you a no dollar start for testing for fuel, but like Mike is saying, you could be wasting your time without a fuel pressure gauge. The gauge will definitely give you difinitive answers worth going forward from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy larry Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) Cone filter inlet side of fuel pump.... Check that. it's in the pipe of the inlet side of the pump above the fuel tank mine plugged up with fuzz looking stuff cleaned it out and reinstalled it cured my stalling problem Edited March 4, 2009 by Crazy larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 welcome aboard. First off your car is an es, not an esi:) esi was the only intercooled flatty and it was 85.5. es is better though:) you should have a velnas computer inside the center console just below the radio. very rare so take care of it. As for your issue. Do you have spark on all the plugs, cap/rotor? Im surprised no body said tps/isc reset:) Turn the key on but dont start the car then look at the little plunger thing that pushes on the throttle linkage. this should push up on the linkage to bump the idle up during cold starts. If you have a leaky injector or two, its possible that you are dripping fuel into the intake, when you crank the car it fires up and dies from that fuel but the ecu never gives the car enough to keep it going cold. At the very least you should check your tps voltage to make sure its .45v. if for some reason its way off the ecu may think your throttle is wide open or if the value isnt in range who knows. you may have already found this but there is an access panel for the fuel pump below the subfloor in the hatch area. this will allow you to get to the in tank screen and cone filter thats inline after the pump. These would have to be extremely clogged for the car not to start but its possible. When you are cranking your car, does the tach jump around or not move at all? We need to narrow a few things down. Make sure you are getting spark, make sure the engine has decent compression. If its too low your fighting a loosing battle for the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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