New problem! hooray conquest

[aicrono2989]

Alright, I've done everything i could think of today and here's where I'm at. The car won't even catch(have an explosion, start, try to start, whatever). I do have spark in every cylinder. The car does get fuel(so much to the point of flooding the intake manifold if i don't unplug the pump and try to start off of starting fluid) and as far as I can tell it does turn over fast enough, but it just doesn't do anything. Any idea on what i should check/replace/cry over? I've already replaced basically everything. fuel filters, fuel, fuel pump, injector o rings, air filter, oil filter, oil, coolant, head, head gasket, head bolts, a bunch of other gaskets, trans fluid, etc.

[emagdnim]

if you have fuel and spark, then you need air... do a compression test or a leak down test to find out where your at.

[aicrono2989]

if you have fuel and spark, then you need air... do a compression test or a leak down test to find out where your at.

 

O.K., thanks, I'll try to borrow some stuff tomorrow. Off topic, found this interesting: http://www.automedia.com/Engine_Compressio...ccr20050801cc/1 honestly, what are the odds of the first link in a search on compression test would lead to a site with a Starquest?

[Scotty Dont]

if you have fuel and spark, then you need air... do a compression test or a leak down test to find out where your at.

 

 

is the distributor timed right, u have spark but is it at the right time?

[Technology]

is the distributor timed right, u have spark but is it at the right time?

 

Yeah, if you replaced the head gasket, you removed the distributor. Make sure that's lined up right. Then when it starts, time it right.

[MikeMeyerhoff]

also if you are flooding your spark plugs can become fouled and not fire.

[aicrono2989]

Yeah, if you replaced the head gasket, you removed the distributor. Make sure that's lined up right. Then when it starts, time it right.

I am pretty sure the timing is right (or close, i tired to compensate for the thing on the cam gear spinning the dist a little when i shoved it in)

also if you are flooding your spark plugs can become fouled and not fire.

and when i last pulled out the spark plugs, they werent even wet, but the intake manifold had fuel in it.

Edited May 30, 2008 by aicrono2989

[FlattopMike]

If your intake is wet but not your plugs, you probably aren't pulling in much air.

That would mean little to no compression and/or valve timing off.

Sometimes it's hard to see nice clean fuel on the plugs.

Inserting the distributor isn't a guessing game. There are exact points to line up so that there is chance of error.

Do a quick search and you'll find a good walk-through with pictures.

[aicrono2989]

If your intake is wet but not your plugs, you probably aren't pulling in much air.

That would mean little to no compression and/or valve timing off.

Sometimes it's hard to see nice clean fuel on the plugs.

Inserting the distributor isn't a guessing game. There are exact points to line up so that there is chance of error.

Do a quick search and you'll find a good walk-through with pictures.

Does checking it against the timing marks on the timing chain cover count? I also checked it against the cam (not in really all that accurate) and I tried to see where the piston was with the spark plug pulled on cylinder 1. And is there a mark on the gear for the distributor? I always thought that one hole was an oil hole of little significance. Thanks for all the help so far everyone, I haven't gotten anything yet to check compression, I'll check with the advance auto near my house sometime tomorrow.

Where exactly can I get new pistons and rings if it does come to that? I've had trouble finding a place last time I looked and the one place I found wouldn't take my call

Edited May 31, 2008 by aicrono2989

[boostandmuscle]

take your #1 spark plug out, stick a ziptie into the hole and have someone slowly turn the car over by a rachet on the crank pully.. when that #1 hits Top dead center the crank pully should also be there with the marks... put the distributor back in and line up the rotor with the #1 on the disty cap...

[Technology]

Or pop off the valve cover, and get the dowel pin in the cam gear at around 12 o'clock when the crank timing mark is at zero.

 

then install the distributor with the detent on the small gear aligned with the ridge on the shaft of the dist. don't adjust for anything, just put it in and wiggle it. (that sounds sexy). it should start right up.

[aicrono2989]

Or pop off the valve cover, and get the dowel pin in the cam gear at around 12 o'clock when the crank timing mark is at zero.

 

then install the distributor with the detent on the small gear aligned with the ridge on the shaft of the dist. don't adjust for anything, just put it in and wiggle it. (that sounds sexy). it should start right up.

The detent? forgive my ignorance, but, the hell is that? and the cam gear is already lined up so the dowel is at twelve when the crank is at tdc, problem is im not sure the crank markings are correct, cause the last time i had the engine out(a long time ago really) the timing marks were about 20 degrees behind what was actually going on in the cylinder. when the thing was at the 10d btdc, the pistons had already moved to about 10d atdc(i used this band around the top of the cylinder that seemed to indicate where the explosions happened. it seemed to line up with the 10 deg marks) unless there is something about the crank pully and the crank itself or something. maybe the previous owner's mechanic did something. and i got the dist to the point of the metal thingee that actually dist spark(i really cant remember for the life of me what its called, distributor, then whats the main thingee its attatched to??) to be right at the point for spark plug wire one when the crank mark i made was at the 10d btdc on the timing chain cover.

and for all those wondering, my cyl compression numbers were 80psi, 65psi, 85psi, and 65psi respectivly. ofcourse thats with the engine cold cause it wont start and theres some fuel getting in the cyls when i smelled the spark plugs, im gonna get some new ones just incase, maybe try again. im not entirley sure what im doing right now.

thanks for everyones help so far.

i really need to know what this detent thing is if itll give the engine a better shot at starting. kthx

[Scotty Dont]

The detent? forgive my ignorance, but, the hell is that? and the cam gear is already lined up so the dowel is at twelve when the crank is at tdc, problem is im not sure the crank markings are correct, cause the last time i had the engine out(a long time ago really) the timing marks were about 20 degrees behind what was actually going on in the cylinder. when the thing was at the 10d btdc, the pistons had already moved to about 10d atdc(i used this band around the top of the cylinder that seemed to indicate where the explosions happened. it seemed to line up with the 10 deg marks) unless there is something about the crank pully and the crank itself or something. maybe the previous owner's mechanic did something. and i got the dist to the point of the metal thingee that actually dist spark(i really cant remember for the life of me what its called, distributor, then whats the main thingee its attatched to??) to be right at the point for spark plug wire one when the crank mark i made was at the 10d btdc on the timing chain cover.

and for all those wondering, my cyl compression numbers were 80psi, 65psi, 85psi, and 65psi respectivly. ofcourse thats with the engine cold cause it wont start and theres some fuel getting in the cyls when i smelled the spark plugs, im gonna get some new ones just incase, maybe try again. im not entirley sure what im doing right now.

thanks for everyones help so far.

i really need to know what this detent thing is if itll give the engine a better shot at starting. kthx

 

 

oh my god please get some one to help you (i hope im not coming off sounding like an a**) and detent...i think he ment indent

[shift1313]

the detent is on the gear on your dizzy that engages your cam gear which also has a detent or indention on it. you can see the small dimple just to the right of the teeth in this pic

 

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj39/shift1313/Starion/CasDizzy1.jpg

 

sorry thats the best pic i have uploaded of the gear.

 

Your compression numbers are kinda low. even on a cold motor i get over 100psi. Id say your cylinder walls or rings have excessive wear on them but those numbers might also indicate valves being too tight, jet valves stuck open or bad valve seat area.

 

If you need parts the member DAD runs engine machine shop(http://www.enginemachineservice.com/conquest.html)

 

as for your timing. Pull your VC and watch your valves and get your #1 cyl at TDC on its compression stroke(both valves closed). It might help to pull the #1 plug out as well. Then check where your rotor button is pointing on your distributor cap. Its also possible you have your dizzy in right but you have the plug wires on wrong.

[Indiana]

l compression numbers were 80psi, 65psi, 85psi, and 65psi respectivly

 

i really need to know what this detent thing is i

 

Your numbers are far too low for the engine to hardly run, and from what you say your timing chain is off but you don't have to take the timing cover off to fix it. Are your rocker arms mechanical? Are there nut/bolts on the end of every one? They could be out of adjustment also. The dowel pin in the cam gear, its not to be at the top exactly, look at the cam gear bolt, look at the dowel pin and visualize a line from the center of each and that line is a bit before 12 o'clock on a stock height head and block. Looking at the teeth on the cam gear its the low point between the tips of two gear teeth that needs to be just to the right of what looks like 12 o'clock when the crank pulley is at TDC. That makes for the flat part of the chain link to be at the top and you can line that up easier but it can't be one whole link left or right or its off at least one tooth.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003019.JPG

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM002985.JPG

 

Take the distributor cap off and pull the dist. out so the gear is free of the cam and rotate the shaft until you see a machined dot on the end and line it up with a raised notch on the dist. body. Now you see the stud in the head and on the end there is a horizontal line cut into the head and also one cut into the dist. mounting arm and you line those two marks up. Now push the dist. into the head and do not touch the rotor while you do this. When it goes all the way in you are to have the center of the rotor contact lined up with a screw in the dist. body.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM009365.JPG

 

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM009366.JPG

 

 

Now rotate the dist. a bit towards you so that the rotor tip and the screw will be lined up when you are in the center of your timing adjustment range (the stud in the head with the slot in the dist. ) and that is where you are to start the car up then put a timing light on it and set it at 10 BTDC and tighten it down.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM009364a.JPG

 

If you are off a tooth on your chain, you can bend down the shelf for the cam gear and let the gear drop down then lift the chain to move one position over. You can even remove the gear if you like but push a 1" wide strip down between the chain and it sill stop when it rests on the crankshaft gear and that will hold the oil pump plunger in so your chain can't come off the gear or make the plunger come out and stick. Support the chain with something so you don't have to hold it.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003222.JPG

 

Your fuel problem maybe related to it not started and being flooded. Its a good idea to have those injectors cleaned. Premium gas is far too expensive today to not clean them. Two tanks of gas ran on dirty poor spraying injectors easily will pay for your having them cleaned. Its about 50.00 to have that done, your car will start easier, run better and you'll get better economy from your fuel. Not to mention how much SAFER you are under boost with cleaned PROPER sized injectors.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Indiana

[aicrono2989]

alright, lemme try to correct everything based on the last two posts, ill see if i can get pictures if i run into further problems

[shift1313]

great post as always indiana, a few pictures are worth a few thou words;). and man is that one green crank pulley!!

[aicrono2989]

Alright and we're back. Had difficulty doing all that stuff cause the weather and my high school just don't like the car. I got the valve timing spot on(thanks Indiana!) and the spark is now close enough to correct that the engine caught. It almost started, but I think some older fuel left in the lines kinda messed up the process and my injectors still aren't working like they should. I'll get them cleaned soon depending on a job. And my friend tells me it was cyl 4 that caught. So now I just have to work out the other three and swap out spark plugs for a fresh set just in case(seriously, I've got like 4 sets on back up, 3 sets I got for free so its all good, they're plat too). And I'm really hoping the clutch has enough pressure behind the slave to put it all the way out, cause I got all the bubbles out of the system but it just doesn't seem hard enough to put the clutch in. This thing WILL go to a garage the minute i get a paycheck large enough so that they can check on everything I did to make sure its correct and that I didn't horribly mess up the poor thing.

Thanks all for your help(especially Indiana and shift1313) I don't think this thing would have escaped the junkyard if it weren't for you guys(my parents constantly threaten me that if it stops turning over its gone. They also fail to understand why I love this car, but whatever.)

[shift1313]

if your clutch isnt engaging check the arm the slave cylinder attaches too. There is a boot where it goes into the tranny bell housing that you can pull out. When you look inside(with a light) you will see a small ball that the arm is supposed to clip onto. If the arm comes off of this you will get clutch problems.

 

also the clutches in these cars feel light.

 

good luck

[FlattopMike]

Alright and we're back. Had difficulty doing all that stuff cause the weather and my high school just don't like the car. I got the valve timing spot on(thanks Indiana!) and the spark is now close enough to correct that the engine caught. It almost started, but I think some older fuel left in the lines kinda messed up the process and my injectors still aren't working like they should. I'll get them cleaned soon depending on a job. And my friend tells me it was cyl 4 that caught. So now I just have to work out the other three and swap out spark plugs for a fresh set just in case(seriously, I've got like 4 sets on back up, 3 sets I got for free so its all good, they're plat too). And I'm really hoping the clutch has enough pressure behind the slave to put it all the way out, cause I got all the bubbles out of the system but it just doesn't seem hard enough to put the clutch in. This thing WILL go to a garage the minute i get a paycheck large enough so that they can check on everything I did to make sure its correct and that I didn't horribly mess up the poor thing.

Thanks all for your help(especially Indiana and shift1313) I don't think this thing would have escaped the junkyard if it weren't for you guys(my parents constantly threaten me that if it stops turning over its gone. They also fail to understand why I love this car, but whatever.)

 

1st: Don't waste your money taking it into a garage. You've got a one of a kind animal. Most shops won't have a clue. Find a member near you and bribe him into helping you. Food, beer and gas money usually work good.

2nd: If only one cylinder was firing, there is no way to tell which one it was. Be careful about listining to "friends".

3rd: If only one is firing, are you sure the firing order is correct? It should be 1-3-4-2

 

It is also possible that you have it very flooded. It doesn't take much cranking for it to inject enough fuel for it to flood and wet the plugs.

Make sure you smell the oil for gas and change it right away if you do smell gas.

[aicrono2989]

1st: Don't waste your money taking it into a garage. You've got a one of a kind animal. Most shops won't have a clue. Find a member near you and bribe him into helping you. Food, beer and gas money usually work good.

2nd: If only one cylinder was firing, there is no way to tell which one it was. Be careful about listining to "friends".

3rd: If only one is firing, are you sure the firing order is correct? It should be 1-3-4-2

 

It is also possible that you have it very flooded. It doesn't take much cranking for it to inject enough fuel for it to flood and wet the plugs.

Make sure you smell the oil for gas and change it right away if you do smell gas.

 

Since I'm 3 years short of being able to buy alcohol, does two out of three work well or should I bribe my dad to buy the beer and I cover the other two?

I'm just gonna go ahead and check the tb to see if theres a pool or anything, I finally gave up on the injectors throwing in too much so I unplugged the pump and have one friend spraying in some small amounts of gas or starting fluid until it starts(even though that hasn't happened yet), then cut it off, plug the pump back in and try again, this probably has a lot to do with any damage the engine has suffered with me. I know this sounds really really stupid but should I crank it for a second to get excess fuel out of the combustion chamber if its flooded, change out the spark plugs(or have them pulled out to start with?) and try again with starting fluid or gas(from a spray bottle) to see if those plugs work, then try with the pump plugged back in?

[shift1313]

be careful cranking it too much. You can check to see if your injectors are working properly by just removing the pipe that goes over your valve cover. You should be able to peek in while someone cranks it.

 

Be careful if you pull your TB off because it is liquid cooled(heated) so if you dont drain some cooling you are going to fill your intake(and your motor) with some coolant. there is a hose coming off the back of the intake that you can pull and drain it. If you drain that line it should be low enough to pull the TB.

 

I dont recommend you try and start the car on starter fluid. Too much of that stuff can be very hard on a motor. Did you verify if all the spark plugs have spark? If you still think only one is sparking dont bother trying to start it until you figure that problem out.

 

you can rest the cable connecting your coil to your dist cap somewhere near a ground and give the car a quick crank( you can see from the driver seat if it sparks). if that sparks then you know all your plugs should spark unless you have a problem with your wires or the rotor button isnt making contact.

[aicrono2989]

be careful cranking it too much. You can check to see if your injectors are working properly by just removing the pipe that goes over your valve cover. You should be able to peek in while someone cranks it.

 

Be careful if you pull your TB off because it is liquid cooled(heated) so if you dont drain some cooling you are going to fill your intake(and your motor) with some coolant. there is a hose coming off the back of the intake that you can pull and drain it. If you drain that line it should be low enough to pull the TB.

 

I dont recommend you try and start the car on starter fluid. Too much of that stuff can be very hard on a motor. Did you verify if all the spark plugs have spark? If you still think only one is sparking dont bother trying to start it until you figure that problem out.

 

you can rest the cable connecting your coil to your dist cap somewhere near a ground and give the car a quick crank( you can see from the driver seat if it sparks). if that sparks then you know all your plugs should spark unless you have a problem with your wires or the rotor button isnt making contact.

i cut the one coolant thing leading to the tb long ago when it cracked and i didnt want to get a replacement. the spark plugs were sparking, the wires were replaced. it caught once and then it just wouldnt, now it wont even turn over, so i should probably bother my dad about beer very soon for you guys' help, any preference on brand?

[shift1313]

if you cut the coolant line going to the tb you would be dumping coolant all over the place. Do you have water in the radiator?

 

Did you ever pull your VC and check to make sure your valves were all moving and check the clearance on them? Its very simple but can be a little time consuming. If someone tightened your valves too much or your jet valves are stuck open you will never get that motor to run. VE needs to be in a certain range for an engine to run. low compression means the mixture is going to be off and you wont have the right ratio to ignite the air.

[aicrono2989]

if you cut the coolant line going to the tb you would be dumping coolant all over the place. Do you have water in the radiator?

 

Did you ever pull your VC and check to make sure your valves were all moving and check the clearance on them? Its very simple but can be a little time consuming. If someone tightened your valves too much or your jet valves are stuck open you will never get that motor to run. VE needs to be in a certain range for an engine to run. low compression means the mixture is going to be off and you wont have the right ratio to ignite the air.

I shouldn't have said cut, sorry, I removed the line and blocked off the two points at which it was connected. And I'm confused about the importance of water in the radiator(other than mixing it with coolant or something)

also, I have watched the valves go at it, they all move, but I haven't checked clearance. I also don't have jet valves, someone replaced the head with a minivan unit, though I do have a spare jet head sitting in my garage somewhere that I think I pulled just in case(I honestly can't remember the reason I pulled it so long ago).