ESIrType? Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Ok, I have offically started my MPI project. I have almost all my parts collected. Here's the list of upgrades going on, MX-6 Intake, I decided to go with it, because I heard it worked out well. What a dissapointment after I got it, the runners are way off. So I am going to make an adaptor plate out of aluminum. I scored a nice chuck of 3/4" 6061 for only $2. One of the biggest problems are the water ports on the head and intake. It's a fairly easy solution to correct it, with a little/lot of extra work. I looked at the pros and cons of making an adaptor plate VS welding a 2.5 intake flange on. Also I am going to crean out the intake a little. The intake goes from round to oval at the exit point. Mega Squirting I have the system built, I just need to tie up a few minor things with it. I am going to be running the Ford EDiS one I have the MS working and tuned well. I will find a stock Caravan head for this season to port an polish, that way if I crack it it's no big deal. Holset HY-35 I'm being a guiney pig here with this one. It looks like a nice turbo and seems to be pretty impressive! I received it in the mail yesterday. Header I am currently building it. I plan on water injecting it too to help keep things cooler. Ok, now for the questions Ok, now for the questions What injectors are your guys running? I'm looking at the Rx-7 injectors. They seem to be the most reasonibly option with spending alot of $$...? The injectors I have in the intake are only something like 220cc's. I can get a set of 450's cheap, but I don't think they are going to be enough. "Spring Fever, Impatient Shawn" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smog Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 not sure of the specs on that turbo, but 550^750 depending on the power you want to make. I thikn 650 is a good size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88whitestarion Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 440 sound a little small for MPI. I think 550's minimum. I'm running 740's(72lb) with my set up. This site should might be helpful selecting the right size. http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm Good luck with you install. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 440 sound a little small for MPI. I think 550's minimum. I'm running 740's(72lb) with my set up. This site should might be helpful selecting the right size. http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm Good luck with you install. Dave Yeah I agree with you guys on the 440c being small. I was thinking of getting them, just to get me running. So I can atleast start tuning on the car. I'm going to hit a yard for some Rx-7 injectors. Here's a small list of a little larger injectors I put together yesterday...It's a little hard to read outside the rows. Here's the Excel file http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/injector_list.xls Shawn Manufactor Vehicle P/N CC LBS Est HP Color Bosch Chrysler 2.2 280 150 351 735 72 147 Bosch Chrysler 2.2 280 150 363 614 60 123 Bosch Ford 2.3 280 150 403 503 49 101 Blue Bosch Ford 2.5 280 150 601 514 50 103 Green Bosch EOSE-9593-A1A 477 47 95 Blue Bosch 1983 Ford ESOE-9F593-A1A 477 47 97 Blue Bosch 1984 Ford ESOE-9F593-A1A 477 47 97 Blue Bosch 1980 Ford ESOE-9F593-AA 477 47 97 Blue Bosch 1985-1986 Ford E43E-9F593-AC 588 58 118 Blue Bosch 1984-1985 Ford E4ZE-9F593-CA 546 54 109 Gray Bosch 1985 Ford E53E-9F593-AB 673 66 135 Green Bosch 0-280-150-041 480 47 96 Bosch Chrysler 2.2 280 150 351 746 73 149 Bosch Ford 5.0 HO 0-280-150-403 503 49 101 Bosch 0-280-150-601 509 50 102 Bosch Chrysler 0-280-150-841 622 61 124 Bosch B-280-410-153 599 59 120 Bosch B-280-410-475 812 80 162 Bosch B-280-412-911 798 78 160 Bosch B-280-431-130 493 48 99 Bosch B-280-431-131 493 48 99 Bosch B-280-434-499/1 653 64 131 Bosch B-280-436-038/1 503 49 101 Bosch B-280-436-038/2 503 49 101 Bosch R-280-411-911 840 82 168 Bosch 1984-85 RX-7 195500-0900 680 67 136 Orange Bosch 1986-87 RX-7 195500-1350 460 45 92 Red Bosch 1986-87 RX-7 195500-1370 550 54 110 Tan Bosch 1988 RX-7 195500-1350 460 45 92 Purple Bosch 1988 RX-7 195500-1370 550 54 110 Purple Bosch 1989-91 195500-2010 460 45 92 Red Bosch 1989-91 195500-2020 550 54 110 Purple Chrylser 2.5 4532586 546 54 109 P5249452 546 54 109 Ford 5.0 V8 EOSE- 484 47 97 Ford v8-5.0l HO E4ZE- 550 54 110 Holley 522-500X 525 51 105 Holley 522-650X 683 67 137 Holley 522-750X 788 77 158 Holley 522-850X 893 88 179 Holley 522-950X 998 98 200 Lucas 5107010 538 53 108 Lucas 5207005 502 49 100 Lucas 5207601 502 49 100 Lucas 5207602 539 53 108 Lucas 5208010 540 53 108 Lucas 5107010 539 53 108 Lucas 5107005 503 49 101 Lucas 5107601 503 49 101 Lucas 5107602 540 53 108 Lucas Toyota 560 55 112 Nippon Denso 1983-1984 Ford EOSE-9F593-A2A 483 47 97 Blue Nippon Denso 17104988 756 74 151 Nippon Denso 17113738 525 51 105 Denso EOSE-9593-A2A 477 47 95 Blue MSD 2013 525 51 105 MSD 2014 756 74 151 Toyota 23250-49035 529 52 106 Rochester 17104988 746 73 149 Accel 150X48 504 49 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 hey shawn, you got any pics of the mx6 intake? It sounds like a headache and a half if you ask me to use a factory cast manifold. What are the port sizes on it? The offer is still there if you want something very simple to get you going, ive got something ive been wanting to try, i still owe you im sure for stuff. It would be super cheap to make one out of exhaust tubing. Probably run $60-$70 bucks or so I would imagine. I dont know if a huge ported head is the answer for a street car. The profile of the ports on the caravan head i have are really nice. I would just polish them up a bit and not worry too much about porting. Maybe do some work around the valve guides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 hey shawn, you got any pics of the mx6 intake? It sounds like a headache and a half if you ask me to use a factory cast manifold. Not as of yet, but I will post some over the weekend for you. What are the port sizes on it? They are over and about 1.7" on he mazda intake. The starion is about 1.6*...I started making the adpt plate today. It's not bad with a large drill bit and some good reeming bits. I have one about done and probably looking at about 8 hours to complete it, including all the coolant runs. The outside runners are bout 1/4" off, but nothing major. I'm enjoying the new challagne of making it work. I got some stainless sockethead bolts, to counter sink into the adpt plate, to hold it onto the head. I also have some for the TB adpt plate I'm making for my 65mm Ford tb to fit the mx intake. I hung the intake on the car, it looks like it's suposed to be on there. I was worried about emmisions, but not anymore. If worse came to worse, I could easly make the EGR valve work. AS of now, for inspection it just needs to be on. The offer is still there if you want something very simple to get you going, ive got something ive been wanting to try, Thank alot, I'm cool with this intake for now, but if you want to make somethign I will gladly test it all out for you! Thanks alot! i still owe you im sure for stuff. Never, Matt you don't owe me for anything! I really appreciate all the help you've given me! It would be super cheap to make one out of exhaust tubing. Probably run $60-$70 bucks or so I would imagine. I dont know if a huge ported head is the answer for a street car. The profile of the ports on the caravan head i have are really nice. I would just polish them up a bit and not worry too much about porting. Maybe do some work around the valve guides. I agree and I was thinking about making one too out of tubing. I asl thought about getting some aluminum too, I bought wire and started collecting stff to weld it. BUt in the end I figured the mazda intake would be simple, which prooved wrong n the end, but it's no big deal. As for porting, I'm looking ot clean up the crappy casting and remove some of the humps in the head. I'm not looking ot get to crazy on a caravan head. This head would be for this season only, till I buy a quality head. I've dropped alot fo cahs between my bike and car i nthe last month and really need to start saving. That's why I'm going with a cheap head for now. Also I started on my header, I found the perfect tubing bends for around $2.50 a piece. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 what tubing did you end up getting for the header? that sounds like a sweet deal. I looked into getting some tubing bent and it was like $10-$15 bucks to have 4 90s and 4 180s which wasnt too bad. good luck with your project. ive got another little project on my hands. i picked up some flat slides off a gsxr1100 that im putting on my gpz. they are almost perfect, should pick up better throttle response and a few ponies at the same time. they are 36mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 what tubing did you end up getting for the header? that sounds like a sweet deal. I looked into getting some tubing bent and it was like $10-$15 bucks to have 4 90s and 4 180s which wasnt too bad. good luck with your project. ive got another little project on my hands. i picked up some flat slides off a gsxr1100 that im putting on my gpz. they are almost perfect, should pick up better throttle response and a few ponies at the same time. they are 36mm They are esle, with a wall thckness of 10g. The ID I thought was 1.5" but is the same as the exhasut ports. I bought around 16, 90's for $40 and some were different CLR. This gives me anough so that I can't play with the design a little. The bike sounds like a fun projoct, I'll have to show you what I"ve done so far to mine. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Damn, that gonna be nice I think.. Really interested in how that turbo works out for you.. Do you have any spec's on it? That's cool though, like a frankenstein setup.. You're the test bunny for a couple new piece's.. Is there any work done under the head? ;D It'll be a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPaus_88TSi Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Oh yeah, I think the 85's or 86 RX7's have 650's.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Damn, that gonna be nice I think.. Really interested in how that turbo works out for you.. Do you have any spec's on it? That's cool though, like a frankenstein setup.. You're the test bunny for a couple new piece's.. Is there any work done under the head? ;D It'll be a monster. I think it's goingto be nice! It's really a reasonible option for MPI. I'm willing to bet, I can do it all around $500. Injectors are what's going to be the most expensive. I was looking at the mid 80's Rx-7's, but I think I'll get new Delphi or MSD, 72lbs for around $60 a piece. My adapter plate is 85% done, I need to reem it for the back side coolant and find a remote t-housing for the front yet, then just some minor sanding on the ports to make them perfectly round and smooth. I did cut a little bit to far so I ended up using a thin coat of JB weld on it. All in all it's going to work out perfect. I'm a little concerned, it's going to be close to the master cylinder. My biggest worry is the ERG valve, I might not beable to bolt it on hte back of the intake where it's supposed to go. I need to just have it bolted on for inspection. I might relocate it to the front, and I can even get it working if I wanted. I think the turbo will work well! I found some generic maps for the hx-35 and 2003 and newer HY which I believe was a little bigger on the hotside than my 2001. I don't have the true compressor map for it, I've searched for hours already. I'm going to write Holset about it. I measured in inducer and ecducer on the hot side, but the measurements are not with me right now. I know the hot side is, 9cm. It's a little bigger than the 12a I'll get pictures today if I have time. Work under the bottom end, what's that Actully no, just a stock bottom end with about 10,000 miles on it. I plan on water injecting (MS will control it) it to help cool it a little and I'm not goig to run crazy boost either for now. If something breaks, a full forged rebuild with lots of extras would only be a paycheck away! I'm excited to get everything running and I'll keep you all informed. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Personally I would not go below 550cc's...and that is pushing it as that turbo is not some tiny TDO5. I would say 650-750 would be a good injector for you Shawn. If you wanna cut corners to just get going throw in some cheap DSM turbo injectors, about 450cc and get the set up kinda worked out?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Personally I would not go below 550cc's...and that is pushing it as that turbo is not some tiny TDO5. I would say 650-750 would be a good injector for you Shawn. If you wanna cut corners to just get going throw in some cheap DSM turbo injectors, about 450cc and get the set up kinda worked out?? Well I was trying to get this done for not much $$, I'm trying to save for flight school. I'm not going to cut corners. I'm going to go with some 72lbs/hr from here. http://www.racetronix.com/ In the end, it's just not worth it. It's goingto end up cost more $$ for a rebuild and then the correct injectors. I figure I'll get them new too, so I know they are good. Thanks for the advice!!! Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Ok, here's the new question, Are 83-85lbs injectors overkill? They are all about the same price. Thanks, Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_ss Posted March 27, 2005 Report Share Posted March 27, 2005 Shawn, honestly I wouldn't go over anything higher than 750cc's. I bought mine from www.racetronix.com. They had reasonable prices and I beleive I got Delphi's for 240 shipped to my house.... I run 750cc's but I think the higher cc's you go, the more problems you are going to have to get it to idle smoothly... And you'll have to tune way down because your duty cycle will lower the higher the cc's you go. The Tainters ran a 12.4 on their 550cc's, but I think that they were close to maxing them out... Just something to think about that's all and what you want to do with your car. I bought 750cc's so I had room to grow later on down the road, as I didn't want to purchase 550cc's then max the injectors out and have to buy new ones again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted March 28, 2005 Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 it can be done shawn but especially if you are not running anykind of boost i would go lower. as jrss said your duty cycle will lower. also to get a decent spray pattern for a lower duty cycle you may have to up the fuel psi, not sure. 83-85lbs is about 870-900cc where as 72lbs is 756ccs. I wouldt do much more then that unless you are supporting 1000hp or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2005 Cool, thanks Matt and Jr_ss! Iw as looking for feedback and haven't done my homework yet on the injectors. Now my new question is what style spray pattern? A "Pencil beam spray pattern" or "Cone Spray Angle?" I'm not looking to make a 11 second car, this is my daily driver, but I figured all the injectors are about the same price, so I will go as big as I can without going overkill. Here are some pictures of the current upgrade. Hy35 vs 12a http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/turbo.JPG http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/turbo_1.JPG http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/turbobac.JPG http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/hy_front.JPG MPI http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/mpi.JPG http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/mpi_1.JPG http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/mpi_2.JPG This is how far the intake sticks out with the 3/4" plate http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/mpi_measure.JPG Adpt Plate http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/mpi_plate.JPG http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/mx6_side.JPG http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/plate_gasket.JPG http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/plate_gasket_1.JPG Here's is where I need to drill for water http://www.csonline.net/starquest/starion/water_line.JPG I also need a remote t-housing. I still have alot of cleanup work on it. I need to finish making the head side of the plate perfectly round and I do have a little JB filling where I cut it to far and blueprinting. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Thats looking pretty good shawn. cant wait til its done. Do you need a hand with a Tstat housing? I could probably make you a very simple one and let you drill and tap it for whatever fittings you need. Ive been thinking of making some because i have been unsuccessful in finding remote tstat housing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Thats looking pretty good shawn. cant wait til its done. Do you need a hand with a Tstat housing? I could probably make you a very simple one and let you drill and tap it for whatever fittings you need. Ive been thinking of making some because i have been unsuccessful in finding remote tstat housing Yes, Matt.....that would be killer! I read the old Mazda 323's had them and I'm told some older preludes have them. I haven't had time to junk hunt yet. If you could help me that would be great! I'm coming up on almost being ready to stick it on the car. I'm going to hold off and put the other head, intake, head and turbo on as one unit. I need to finish me header yet, I'm still laying it out. Matt, also I have some of my swingarm and rim swap pictures for you. I need to upload them yet, but I'll send them to you when I do. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 THis looks like it may work, but might interfer with the distrib. I am not ready to go with the Ford EDiS. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...;category=33603 Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shift1313 Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 I have a 1st gen dsm tstat housing that bolts right to the block but the inlet is way different from the starquest and thats the problem. I got it for $10 at the pick a part. I can probably mill you a simple one that you could bolt onto your plate and keep the same coolant passage so there arent any restrictions. I will see what i can come up with and let you know. If you can let me know how much room you have to work with that might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeaston Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 You don't happen to have a pic of that DSM housing you could email or post, do you? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_ss Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 Shawn, you want the conical spray pattern, it's better for fuel atomization... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmendeol Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 That looks great! And like you said, that intake does look like it belongs there. So Shawn, do you ever think that you may produce more adaptor plates and sell them? Just a thought, pending your results, of course ;D -Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ESIrType? Posted March 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2005 That looks great! And like you said, that intake does look like it belongs there. So Shawn, do you ever think that you may produce more adaptor plates and sell them? Just a thought, pending your results, of course ;D -Tim Thanks, I really like the looks of it vs MPI. This is really a economical options too. The thought has crossed my mind many times. My dad keepstelling me I should. Right now I don't have time to do it. I was going to have it CNC'd at first, but did it by hand instead. If I would make these I would have them CNC'd for sure! You guys would be the first to find out if I would do these. Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts