52 replies to this topic

[Questsi]

mstieg, on 13 June 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Yes, that issue of the "dish" the crank goes into being too shallow was resolved on the 2nd run of T56 Fidanzas.  Mine checked good thankfully.

All I have left is the adapter kit, driveshaft, and decision on what path to take on a working speedo.  

What other issues did you have? (I'm fine with starting a new thread separate from this topic if that's better)

Have you gone with either the 4.22 or 3.90 gears?  The 4.22 ration look pretty good to me.

Actually it was just the flywheel issue and having to massage the tunnel for a better fit.

[Funky Phil]

I wanna see how well a g54b will cruise in 6th gear with the T56. My gut says youll be in boost, about 100% of the time.

[mstieg]

Chad, on 13 June 2011 - 10:06 PM, said:

You can get a steel SFI spec bell for the LT-1 now, they just came out with it about a year ago.  It's about $400 I believe.

You can aslo get a breand new Magnum TR6060 for about ~$2400 that will hold an easy 750 ft/lb.  I think they make an LT-1 version.  Might be better than a rebuild given you will actually be pushing the limits with it.

If anyone wants a 4.22 gear set, I have the entire kit (ring/pinion/bearings/seals) new in box that I'm selling.  I got a good deal on one already built and didn't want to mess with doing it myself.

I do, but would rather have one already built, or will have it built here. - package in with the conversion kit I need from you?

[Chad]

phinko, on 13 June 2011 - 11:41 PM, said:

I wanna see how well a g54b will cruise in 6th gear with the T56. My gut says youll be in boost, about 100% of the time.

It's not real bad, but it lugs ofcourse.  It's such a tall gear for the stock diff that the motor is at about 2000 RPM at 70, so it can't really build any boost.  I've only put mine in 6th a few times.  there aren't many open highways arround here, the nearest highway with a speed limit over 55 is about 60 miles away, and that is only a 65 zone.

5th is about perfect, seems idealy suited to a moded motor.


When I swap the 4.22 in there, that will put 6th about where the T56's 5th is now.  Then it will be perfection.  1-2-3 will be almost stock, with 4-5-6 devided in the place of stock 4-5, with a little extra on the top (7000 RPM will be about 165 MPH).

[mstieg]

Chad - what are your thoughts on swapping in a better disk to the stock Veleo clutch?  I got mine cleaned up for cheap and word around Camaro forums is that the PPs are mostly all the same.  SPEC says otherwise (and would rather sell the entire kit w/ PP for big $$).  I'd like a smooth streetable full faced setup.  SPEC 3+ disk was mentioned, but SPEC also said it was thicker and not compatible with OEM PPs, however other Camaro guys seem to like them (or McLeod disks).  Thoughts?

Clutch disk options...

[TsTKl]

smart dsm'ers don't buy fidanza...

http://media.photobu...DB/DSC_3993.jpg

http://media.photobu...74/flywheel.jpg



guess whats the only flywheel I've seen or heard of failing?



Someone said the 17 lb fidanza has less rotational mass than a stock dsm flywheel... stock dsm flywheels are 20 lbs. Aftermarket lightweight ones are 8-11/12 lbs (fidanza-act). With how much larger the diameter of the t-56 flywheel is, I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it has less rotational inertia than a stock flywheel.

For those who don't know how a harmonic damper works: Because Combustions are not constant driving forces on the crankshaft, the crankshaft itself developes harmonic twisting forces within itself. That is to say the crankshaft itself twists during opporation, then flings back like a spring and goes the other way, coming back again after another combustion. These twisting forces are reduced by the calculated mass on the outer ring of the harmonic damper. The rubber acts as a spring allowing those forces to be dissipated through this weight. Unfortunately a harmonic damper can only work for a small range of rpms. Aftermarket harmonic dampers assume you will spend more time at a higher rpm and design their product accordingly.

changing the flywheel, so long as its balanced, shouldn't change this too much, although it definately will.


P.S. I'm one of the guys who bought one of bill's t-56 bell housings, although he had to modify it for the long shaft LS-1 version that I bought instead of the normal short shaft LT-1 version. The shifter is about 2-4 inches farther back than stock, but I bought a short shifter that moved it back up a little, and also I plan on moving my drivers seat back farther so my knees stop hitting the dash. I also have 4.75 montero gears for the stock rear end so that 6th gear is usable.

also, are you guys getting these things to fit in your stock tunnels? I had to make a new tunnel for mine. Don't see how it can be done any other way, but this adds significant time and money to the project.

Edited by TsTKl, 28 July 2011 - 04:10 AM.

[Bill Hincher]

thank you, thank you, thank you Tiki  thank you , I have preached and preached this balance point FOREVER and no body wants to hear it

   I might add one more very important detail

  Think of your crankshaft as an extension on a 1/2 drive ratchet, now think of each connecting rod as a ratchet handle

  we all know you cant use a 1/4 in drive to remove lug nuts, why? because you loose twist leverage with the diameter of the extension

  well if you think of the front #1 connecting rod(ratchet) being further away from the flywheel ( lugnut) then you can see that # 4 connecting rod will work with more force against the flywheel then # 1 connecting rod ( thats why #4 connecting rod is usually the first to fail)

  well you are twisting the crank front to back like a spring under compression ( when under load) but with a manual transmission, when you de-accel and leave the clutch engaged,now your rear wheel drive the crankshaft and decompress the spring tension well, take that crankshaft to an oval track like NASCAR and see how much influence the balancer has on the crankshaft

   I try to keep this reading easy

[Bill Hincher]

well, here is the deal, the 4G63 6 bolt flywheel will fit the 4G64 6 bolt as well as the 7 bolts will all interchange, hell the EVO 4/9 7 bolt will fit the 4G63 narrow block, so you can swap and choose all over the place

BUT I am a big advocate of proper balance on the crankshaft

now the wide block R 154 I built re used the G54 b flywheel, there were two built for the G54b, I used the one that used a larger clutch

BUT I dont know if the flyweel for G54b is balanced to be used on the 4G64 crankshaft

IF I could build the wide block 4G64 and used the small FWD or AWD 4G63 flywheel I would because it would make it easier for me but because it fits does not mean it will balance properly
do you have part numbers to sort through that can help us choose?

Edited by Bill Hincher, 30 July 2011 - 09:16 PM.

[AustinTSI]

I'm going to throw this out there but don't shoot me if I sound like an idiot. As I understand it you have already built a t56 housing for the narrow block 4g63 buys and they tended to use the AWD flywheel since it was smaller. Since the 4g63 and the 4g64 use the same parts, why not keep things simple and just build the wideblock housing the same?

Wouldn't this be the easiest for you and us since people have already been running this and 4g63 AWD OEM and aftermarket options are plentiful?

[Bill Hincher]

Bellhousings kinda tend to evolve, I move to the market and what it wants, so I ask the end user what they may want and react to the input

as stated before, I am a big believer in the balance effects of a matched flywheel to the given crank, if you intend to destroke the wide block and use the long rod, then you may choose either the FWD ( 280mm diameter) or the AWD ( 270mm diameter) on the 2.0l crank coupled with the proper front crank balancer

  If you intend to build a G54b or a 4G64 motor, you may choose the long stroke crankshaft and reuse the larger flywheel to accomidate a larger clutch

there is no need to use the  'One size fits all'  rule

[25gconquest]

Hello Bill this is Conrad who had sent you the pictures of the bell housing I had made using the front of the automatic tranny. I had to use an internal bearing and constant having it fail I am sitll using stock fly wheel and pressure plate with a custom 240mm clutch for the 26 spline center .I had act made a part number for this clutch.(I apologize for the delay. R&D has finally got back with me. We can make the disc. Here are the details-The 6240320 Retail price @ $181.75.We can start the process if you would still like the disc. Please let me know.Dean Williams Sales and Customer Service Supervisor) I will purchase a bell housing if you do one for the wide block to t56.

[Bill Hincher]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  geez, I cant let you down Conrad,  you been more then fair

[25gconquest]

I will need one soon after I finish my restoration I dont want to go back with the old setup every time I have to replace the internal bearing I have to lift the engine and that is about every 3 to 5 k it is no fun.