Whiplash Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) Have I been missing out and didn't know. So what's an Australian M6 Head? What makes it better that the US head? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Conquest-St...1QQcmdZViewItem Edited March 19, 2008 by Whiplash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) Have I been missing out and didn't know. So what's an Australian M6 Head? What makes it better that the US head? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Conquest-St...1QQcmdZViewItem heron explains it pretty well in that auction. they're generally thought to flow about the same as a ported marnal head. I don't remember every actually seeing flow numbers that weren't speculation. A ported magna will supposedly flow like crazy. They also are supposedly more sturdy but who knows really. Mine is holding up to 20psi and over 400 ft/lbs just fine. that auction was talked about in another thread and I think the consensus was that it's a good price. I have an M6 head I paid $475 for that I plan to spend $500 getting ported so when you add the stainless valves, new guides, seals and springs as well as a pressure test pre and post and a 3 angle valve job, it's honesly a bargain, expensive as it seems. Edited March 19, 2008 by chiplee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 But I never heard of the M6 head. Where they on all the AU Starions? What years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 But I never heard of the M6 head. Where they on all the AU Starions? What years? They were on a naturally aspirated mitsu called a magna. M6 and M7 is what you want. Search the site for the details. You have been missing out if you're just now "hearing" about them. Wish I had a before and after dyno for that but when I installed mine I also installed chad's tube header and a much bigger turbo, so I can't really speak to what the head itself did for my engine. I made 298whp and 380ft/lbs on a stock cam with this head though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I've somewhat heard of the Magna. Were these on the Starions only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) I've somewhat heard of the Magna. Were these on the Starions only? dude, seriously, use the search button. The Mitsubishi Magna was a car, that had a 4g54 in it but not turbo. I did a couple GP's for about 80 intake manifolds you might have seen around that bolt right up to our heads. are you messing with me? Edited March 19, 2008 by chiplee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 BIG rippoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 BIG rippoff that's how I felt at first too but seriously man, after thinking about it I'm not so sure. On what basis do you consider that head to be a big rip off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 dude, seriously, use the search button. The Mitsubishi Magna was a car, that had a 4g54 in it but not turbo. I did a couple GP's for about 80 intake manifolds you might have seen around that bolt right up to our heads. are you messing with me? I've heard all about the Magna intake. I've been wanting one for years. But I didn't know anything about the head. And I would never mess with ya Chip. Unless it was 04/01. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minagera Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 (edited) I've heard all about the Magna intake. I've been wanting one for years. But I didn't know anything about the head. And I would never mess with ya Chip. Unless it was 04/01. http://www.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en all these words: Magna Head Search within a site or domain: http://www.starquestclub.com/ http://www.except.nl/overig/uploads/kittens/fail.jpg Edited March 19, 2008 by Minagera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minagera Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 Flow #'s for intake @ 28" and .400 Lift: Stock JV Head about 151 cf NJV head about 165 cfm Mild Ported Marnal 188 cfm Heavy ported Marnal 211 cfm Stock 2nd Gen Magna 187 cfm Stock 3rd Gen Magna 179 cfm 2ng Gen Magna With 50mm Valves About 285+ cfm BTW flow numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash Posted March 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 I guess this would be the 2nd gen Magna head. http://magna.trynsave.net/index.php?title=2g_Astron_II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 3rd gen M-9 head in that pic i believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minagera Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 3rd gen M-9 head in that pic i believe. Correct. Kidney shaped chambers. The 2nd gen looks like our head, minus a jet valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsiconquest88 Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I seen the price on that auction yesterday and was like WHOA, since when did they become that high? i lucked out about 4 years ago and got a new one, yes NEW from a guy in NY, kelly had informed me of it the dude lived like 3 hrs away from me lol, got it for 450 he bought it for 800 i think he said (or less) and he didnt use it, he had it for quite some time and never finished his project. That one in the auction is refurb'd as with 99 percent of them haha, but i NEVER seen them go that high of price!!!! i been seein group buys and single sales etc never be over 600 bucks. I still have pics of mine too from my sale on ebay about a year and half later after buyin it haha. i myself didnt end up using it either. I do regret selling it cus as i said it was a NEW m6 head :angry:actual. Needed money though at the time for some crap and had to do it, sold a bunch of stuff and my car even at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I seen the price on that auction yesterday and was like WHOA, since when did they become that high? i lucked out about 4 years ago and got a new one, yes NEW from a guy in NY, kelly had informed me of it the dude lived like 3 hrs away from me lol, got it for 450 he bought it for 800 i think he said (or less) and he didnt use it, he had it for quite some time and never finished his project. That one in the auction is refurb'd as with 99 percent of them haha, but i NEVER seen them go that high of price!!!! i been seein group buys and single sales etc never be over 600 bucks. I still have pics of mine too from my sale on ebay about a year and half later after buyin it haha. i myself didnt end up using it either. I do regret selling it cus as i said it was a NEW m6 head :angry:actual. Needed money though at the time for some crap and had to do it, sold a bunch of stuff and my car even at the time. as with most people, it appears as though you did not read the auction. that head is fully assembled with new guides, schneider springs, stainless valves, ported and polished, pre and post pressure tested, resurfaced and has a 3 angle valve job. Most of us who have to buy the head and then hire all that work done will have more than $1300 in it before it's all said and done I think, or at least close enough to it to make that head worth it, for the simple fact that it's complete and ready to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 For the non DIY people. M6 -$350- $400 Fully ported and polished $200 - $500 8 OEM valve guides ?? $50-100? Viton seals ?? $20-30? OEM size "stainless steel" valves $100-$200? 100lbs springs from Schneider Cams?? $100-150?? Pressure testing $50-100? Resurface $50-100? 3 angle valve job. $100-200? No core charge, and on the LOW SIDE of things thats add's up to be $1020 Take that with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 For the non DIY people. M6 -$350- $400 Fully ported and polished $200 - $500 8 OEM valve guides ?? $50-100? Viton seals ?? $20-30? OEM size "stainless steel" valves $100-$200? 100lbs springs from Schneider Cams?? $100-150?? Pressure testing $50-100? Resurface $50-100? 3 angle valve job. $100-200? No core charge, and on the LOW SIDE of things thats add's up to be $1020 Take that with a grain of salt. yeah, here's what I was planning on with actual prices M6 Head $475 Port/polish $575 Stainless valves $180 Resurface $75 Schneider 6610s $97 Valve job $180 Flow test $? N/A anyway that's $1580 so you get the idea. I didn't even include the trivial stuff like guides and seals. Head work is not cheap, and if Heron were to include some pre and post flow numbers to go with that head so you knew just what you were getting then it would be very very worth it. As it stands, I'm convinced it worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I'm surprised it's not up there for 2K for his time/little profit. Cheap people discuss me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I'm surprised it's not up there for 2K for his time/little profit. Cheap people discuss me. what do you think they talk about when they discuss you? your rosey personality? me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 haha Well, it's better then buying 16 dual springs and SS valves... What am I saying... I wish fully built 4G63 heads were that cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiplash Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Correct. Kidney shaped chambers. The 2nd gen looks like our head, minus a jet valve. http://magna.trynsave.net/index.php?title=2g_Astron_II On that web site above it says the 2nd gen is kidney shaped. Here's the link on the head pics. http://magna.trynsave.net/index.php?title=..._II_Differences Could you possible be wrong? Or could that site be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minagera Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) http://magna.trynsave.net/index.php?title=2g_Astron_II On that web site above it says the 2nd gen is kidney shaped. Here's the link on the head pics. http://magna.trynsave.net/index.php?title=..._II_Differences Could you possible be wrong? Or could that site be wrong? That is the Astron II not the 2nd gen magna head... 1st gen manga was no better than a caravan non jet. 2nd gen manga is probably the best head for a turbo engine. 3rd gen manga is going to bump your compression ratio up by nearly one point, which would be ok for a stock 7:1 bottom end, however a wesico or JE 8:1 bottom end will end with with 9:1 compression ratio. A bit high unless you are good a tuning. Furthermore the Magna was a car over there. While the Astron has the same engine, and most likely even the same parts, that is red delicous apples to granny smith apples... http://lh4.google.com/pedro.vera/R1MdXmbyLQI/AAAAAAAAAqw/67FNImaZyp4/s800/YouFail.jpg Edited March 20, 2008 by Minagera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiplee Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) however a wesico or JE 8:1 bottom end will end with with 9:1 compression ratio. A bit high unless you are good a tuning. I say 9:1 is too high no matter how "good you are at tuning" There's not much support for my stance but my opinion is that boost is worth WAY more HP than compression and people running even 8:1 are wasting time. You can phase the cam and manipulate the timing for off the line performance to more than make up for the gain 1point of compression is going to make you. the margin of error provided by staying at stock 7:1 and the ability to run more boost before reaching dangerous effective compression numbers makes 7:1 the way to go in my opinion. Can't believe anyone EVER bothers upping the compression on this engine. 7:1 static compression at 20psi is 16.5:1 effective compression 8:1 static compression at 20psi is 18.9:1 effective compression 9:1 static compression at 20psi is 21.2:1 effective compression boost required to make 18.9:1 effective from 7:1 static is 25psi that means I can run 25psi with 7:1 static compression and my engine effectively sees exactly the same thing as an engine running 20psi with 8:1 static compression. 1psi being worth 7 to 10hp at the flywheel, sometimes more, would you rather be running 25psi or 20? and obtw, 6:1 static at 31psi boost is only 18.7:1 effective compression. So by dropping from 8:1 pistons to 6:1 pistons we would make 11psi boost available with a drop of .2 points in effective compression. We just ADDED 75 to 100 HP without effecting the wear and tear on the engine AT ALL, except to make it less very slightly. Remember, the motor doesn't know it's boosted. I just sees effective compression and reacts as though that compression is static, as if you had 19:1 pistons. So we constantly change the compression of our engines as boost goes up and down. Makes a case for even dropping to 6:1 if you're building a drag car, as I think the sakura car had done. why do I even have to debate this? it's so obvious. I'm not talking to you really. I'm just blown away that ANYONE EVER ran anything but stock compression on our engines and then wondered why the blew the engine. Edited March 20, 2008 by chiplee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 (edited) The worse an engine breathes, the more compression you can get away with, But for the normal street cars on this forum has you won't need anything higher then a 8:1, You may have some problems on pump gas/street driving at that number. And to go along with what Chip said Higher static compression creates more power throughout the rpm band, but it'll lower your maximum allowed boost before the onset of detonation. Boost is worth way more power than compression, since boost raises your compression and your total air flow at the same time. But, with my car ill be running 9:1 Edited March 20, 2008 by emagdnim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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