xtremeboost Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Well , I know many out there have had issues using the stock 5 speed and also many have wondered about a taller 5th gear . So how about custom gears 1 - 5 th ?? not sure on specs yet but a few have contact e to put this together based of some ideas I had for my own car . So far I have 4 VERY serious people to do this with , I need maybe 10 to get a good price . Those that may have a need for this build-up please make a post and let me know your thoughts on it and any ideas you may have . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Something like G-force does I hope? I know a member that had his entire stocker cryotreated and it still broke within a few trips to the track, and he was only making 450 RWHP. Our gears seem to have weak gear teeth, but's its actualy shaft spread that is killign them. If they can upgrade the main shafts, you may be able to cure this gear boxes problems. It has great reatios in my opinion, maybe a .75 5th, but leave the rest as they are. Are you thinking straight cut or helical? Straight is very noisey, but definatly stronger. The Helicals G-force does is supposedly near straight cut, but still fairly quiet. the helix angle is only 1/3 the angle of what most OEM gears look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Talkin greek to me. Didn't know the 5 speeds had breaking problems. Maybe something I need to pay attention to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Most that have had failures were simply abused/neglected for decades, and it finaly died from bad syncros and/or bearings. It's a fairly good design actualy. Problem is, the don't like much more than 350 Rear Wheel FT/LB of torque. Then you start seeing shattered gears. I went though one in 5 miles once. it shifted fine and ran quiet when I put it in, it just didnt' hold the torque I was making. It has this problem because the shafts deflect, which causes the gears to ride on the tips of the teeth, not the centers, which will break any gear. All transmisisons do this, but smaller designs like ours do this more, the shafts have more side loading because the shafts are so close together (a leverage thing). Frank can't change the shaft locations, but they can be made with a stronger shaft that won't deflect so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremeboost Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Something like G-force does I hope? I know a member that had his entire stocker cryotreated and it still broke within a few trips to the track, and he was only making 450 RWHP. Our gears seem to have weak gear teeth, but's its actualy shaft spread that is killign them. If they can upgrade the main shafts, you may be able to cure this gear boxes problems. It has great reatios in my opinion, maybe a .75 5th, but leave the rest as they are. Are you thinking straight cut or helical? Straight is very noisey, but definatly stronger. The Helicals G-force does is supposedly near straight cut, but still fairly quiet. the helix angle is only 1/3 the angle of what most OEM gears look like. Thanks for your imput but I'm thinking more like making custom billet gears , I wouldn't waste my time with cryo !!!! And yes the ONLY gear I would change is 5th , everything else is right on ... And as far as cut not sure yet , I'm at this point just looking to see if anyone would be in on something like this . I was asked but a couple guys to look into it and so I made this thread , but with just 4 guys cost is a bit much . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremeboost Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Talkin greek to me. Didn't know the 5 speeds had breaking problems. Maybe something I need to pay attention to... make some good hp and you'll find-out pretty fast .. This upgrade will be great for those that have a old tranny thats beat to hell and back and really enjoy beating on their cars without many worries and this will be one less ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Thanks for your imput but I'm thinking more like making custom billet gears , I wouldn't waste my time with cryo !!!! Yes, that is exactly what I was getting at, new parts, made from a very high quality material, in larger than stock dimensions. No bandaids or "treatments". G-force has some good side-by-side pics of how this can be done to a gear set in a stock gear box, without changing shaft spacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/images/t5/lg_1.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremeboost Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Thanks for your imput but I'm thinking more like making custom billet gears , I wouldn't waste my time with cryo !!!! Yes, that is exactly what I was getting at, new parts, made from a very high quality material, in larger than stock dimensions. No bandaids or "treatments". G-force has some good side-by-side pics of how this can be done to a gear set in a stock gear box, without changing shaft spacing. Actually , I did have a talk with guy a tranny guy from Chryslers SRT group and he will do all the beach work at no cost which is cool as heck . He will let me know whats the best way of addressing any and all issues he finds , hes about 5 miles from my shop and we help eachother out often . It was all actually his idea when he found out about the cost of the trans I'm using in my own project . We'll see where this goes . Best Regards Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Cool, I'm not trying to sway which venderto use, just showing what can be done, and is readily available in other transmissions lines. Most don't realize just how weak a modern transmission is made for the sake of whisper quiet running. If you can gt a large enough group together, this will likley cost less than any of the other options out there that involve retrofitting a non-stock trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremeboost Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Cool, I'm not trying to sway which venderto use, just showing what can be done, and is readily available in other transmissions lines. Most don't realize just how weak a modern transmission is made for the sake of whisper quiet running. If you can gt a large enough group together, this will likley cost less than any of the other options out there that involve retrofitting a non-stock trans. Its all good man . Like I said , at this point its just a feeler thread to gauge interest ; we'll see where if anywhere it goes .. Best Regards Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtremeboost Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 If you can gt a large enough group together, this will likley cost less than any of the other options out there that involve retrofitting a non-stock trans. OH , and yes the idea is to try an have another option which will not break the bank . After getting many e-mails from people asking about my project I have noticed that many do not like the idea of retrofitting anything to their cars . I think that having a stock tranny option will in the long-run be a real low cost and low labor option for those seeking to make power while keeping the car with all of its stock parts . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 i was going to swap the rx7 trany in but it will be very time consuming/expensive and could possibly be not strong enough, i think something like this would be better, no new drive shaft, trans mount, adapter or speedo to worry about i would be down pending price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toysrus Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Our gears seem to have weak gear teeth, but's its actualy shaft spread that is killign them. That is 100% correct. The Rx7 Turbo boxes though are definitely stronger in Factory form and have 'off-the-shelf' gear sets available for them..... I would be seriously interested in a Starion gearset but it would have to come from a proven manufacturer as their are a lot of professional looking backyard places about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Straight cut gears and a taller 5th would be molehills. Honestly I'd like a whole new gear set as 1 and 2 are too short for what I need them for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionbull Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 i would be interested in this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 i feel 3rd seems to be a ittle long. maybe more balanced ratio's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 If you can gt a large enough group together, this will likley cost less than any of the other options out there that involve retrofitting a non-stock trans. BINGO. I'd definately be interested based on the limits of the stockers...if the product is as good as/better than the other tranny options. "If you build it, we will come" Best of luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alostsoul Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 i'd be in for this if the gears stayed the same with the exception of 5th. the trans in my street car now is just about shot, so finding something that would hold up to my abuse would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Ok. I'd definately be in for this then. Though definately change 5th. Hearin the engine run at 4K when I'm only around 70 MPH doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstieg Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 ^^^ Agreed. Better 5th gear overdrive ratios. With a decent clutch, the torque can pull it. I'd prefer a quieter gear than square cut myself. More potential buyers might agree, as few of us are strickly racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jms Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I'll keep an eye on this thread and if costs are reasonable, I would be very interested. I agree with a taller fifth but would prefer a helix gear to keep noises down. My brother once had a Chevy with the Muncie M-22 Rockcrusher and I remember it being too noisy for my tastes due to its straight cut gears. I believe that the majority of us are occasional racers that would want a stronger gear set but would trade some of that strenght for a somewhat comfortable ride.Good luck with this project. Rgds,Jms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDX87Starion Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 How would just changing 5th affect durability? Do people break 5th? Also straight-cut for 5th is definitely out. My Fiat race gearbox was retro fited with straight cut close ratio gears. They milled down the stock gear teeth and welded on straight cut webster gears of the ratios I chose. The place was PBS engineering in cali. It was about $1200 for 4 gear sets (2nd thru 5th) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alostsoul Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 How would just changing 5th affect durability? Do people break 5th? Also straight-cut for 5th is definitely out. My Fiat race gearbox was retro fited with straight cut close ratio gears. They milled down the stock gear teeth and welded on straight cut webster gears of the ratios I chose. The place was PBS engineering in cali. It was about $1200 for 4 gear sets (2nd thru 5th) were talking about changing the ratio of 5th, and leaving the frist 4 gears at the same ratio. changeing the 5th gear ratio would help with cruising RPM and fuel mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88whitestarion Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Something like G-force does I hope? I know a member that had his entire stocker cryotreated and it still broke within a few trips to the track, and he was only making 450 RWHP. Our gears seem to have weak gear teeth, but's its actualy shaft spread that is killign them. If they can upgrade the main shafts, you may be able to cure this gear boxes problems. It has great reatios in my opinion, maybe a .75 5th, but leave the rest as they are. Are you thinking straight cut or helical? Straight is very noisey, but definatly stronger. The Helicals G-force does is supposedly near straight cut, but still fairly quiet. the helix angle is only 1/3 the angle of what most OEM gears look like. Amen I have a G-force T5 in my car. However, I would like to get away from the internal throw-out bearing set up it requires, so a beefed up stock option would be very nice. The semi-helical would be the way to go. Even the semi-helical are a bit noisy but not too bad. I think straight cut would be louder than most would care for on the street. As mentioned above you probably wouldn't gain that much with stronger gears alone. A hardened main shaft would be the ticket to go along with the thicker gears. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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