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Check this out! I Need the Mut-II scan tool


SiG
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Does anybody got or have access to the Mut-II scan tool?

 

I've been in communication with Mike at Digital Tuning Inc.

for awhile about programming the following (check the pics and the URL links)

for our StarQuest's but he needs the Mut-II in order to make it work.

Currently the product is made for the DSM cars.

 

This setup is for the Palm Pilot and the Handspring Visor

 

http://pocketlogger.com/images/screen/datalog.jpg http://pocketlogger.com/images/screen/view.jpg http://pocketlogger.com/images/screen/log.jpg http://pocketlogger.com/images/screen/logzoom.jpg http://pocketlogger.com/images/screen/io.jpg http://pocketlogger.com/images/screen/errors.jpg http://pocketlogger.com/images/screen/soltest.jpg http://pocketlogger.com/images/screen/note.jpg

 

Check the following links:

 

http://pocketlogger.com/?page=screendsm

 

http://pocketlogger.com/?page=prod

 

I had a meeting with him in Arizona at the end of July this year.

We hooked the Pocketlogger up to the diagnostic harness in my SQ but got no reading.

He has my spare ECU and my Electrical manual so all he needs now is access to the Mut-II.

 

Any help or leads would be greatly appreciated!

 

Sig

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Does anybody got or have access to the Mut-II scan tool?

 

I've been in communication with Mike at Digital Tuning Inc.

for awhile about programming the following (check URL links)

for our StarQuest's but he needs the Mut-II in order to make it work.

 

Check the following links:

 

http://pocketlogger.com/?page=screendsm

 

 

The only info availible on the Starion connector is ECU codes, not worth hooking anything more complicated than an LED to.

 

Kevin C

 

http://pocketlogger.com/?page=prod

 

I had a meeting with him in Arizona at the end of July this year.

We hooked the Pocketlogger up to the diagnostic harness in my SQ but got no reading.

He has my spare ECU and my Electrical manual so all he needs now is access to the Mut-II.

 

Any help or leads would be greatly appreciated!

 

Sig

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Kevin

 

Mike at Digital Tuning Inc. claims the Mut-II scan tool to be the answer in order to get the programming going

 

Will have to look into it further.

 

Sig

 

Now I get it.....  He is looking at using the input directly from the sensors....  the factory tool was not so much a scanner as it was a piggy backed measuring system that hookes beetween the ECU and the wiring harness.

 

When I read it I though it was called packet data, not pocket data! ... I presumed he was looking for data similar to what you can get with OBD systems.  I have been designing packet data systems for industrial controls, so every thing I read seems to say packet!

 

I have been toying with the idea of making a micro controller based measuring system that measures the various sensors.   Somthing along those lines would be needed to interface to a palm type device to digitize the data and present it in a serial form.  I was just going to output directly to a LCD display.

 

Kevin C

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Ford has a tool called a breakout box that connects between the harness and ECU and reads the various sensor inputs and ECU outputs.  Someone knowledgeable in electronics could probably build, or perhaps even modify Ford's breakout box for this.  Just a passing thought.

 

Tim

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I have a TCL-1 tool that has the key programing and error code reading functions from the MUT- II.  What do you need to know?  The DART tool will also read the error codes from the Quest with the MMC adaptor.

 

Call Lockmasters in Nicholasville, Kentucky 859-885-6041 ask for Tom Serogy.  They sell the MUT-II, DART, and TCL-1  tools to the locksmithing industry and would have them in stock, but wouldn't be able to give you much tech info.  The current price for the MUT-II is $3500.

 

Todd

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Hey on second thought.  Contact Mike Hyde 650-757-0700.  He was part of the group that brought the TCL-1 to the US for key programing.  Those guys may have some of the info that you are looking for and may want to talk with you about developing a new aplication for PDA to program the new transpoder keys.

 

Let me know if you want me to contact him and start the ball rolling.

 

Todd

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This idea sounds very very cool, increasingly because I just got a Visor Neo.  

If it comes into fruition make sure to let me know.  That tool would be very usefull in troubleshooting and tuning.

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It doesn't sound like the TCL-1 is what I need if it only reads codes. Our interest is reading the various engine sensors *through* the ECU.  The idea is to use the exisiting diagnostic interface to get this information, not something similar to a "breakout box" as that requires external Analog to digital converters (Expensive).

 

If the MUTT can display more than error codes, then we can reverse engineer the protocol and duplicate it on the Palm. But we need a MUTT to do it...

 

Regards,

Mike Montalvo

digital tuning, inc.

www.pocketlogger.com

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It doesn't sound like the TCL-1 is what I need if it only reads codes. Our interest is reading the various engine sensors *through* the ECU.  The idea is to use the exisiting diagnostic interface to get this information, not something similar to a "breakout box" as that requires external Analog to digital converters (Expensive).

 

If the MUTT can display more than error codes, then we can reverse engineer the protocol and duplicate it on the Palm. But we need a MUTT to do it...

 

Regards,

Mike Montalvo

digital tuning, inc.

www.pocketlogger.com

 

Reality check time... The diagnostic connector on a starion only has one pin and that give ECU codes, thats all you are going to get from there.

 

OK...  If you use the equivilant of a breakout box you can monitor the ECU inputs and provide plenty of info for a test box....  But you need to get to the main connectors.

 

As fas as the cost of an A to D..  There are decent microcontrollers with A to D's for around $10, not too expensive.  

 

Kevin C

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DSMs only use one pin. That doesn't mean they can only check error codes. They use a one wire protocol. You also can check error codes on DSMs with that same pin.  This is why I want a MUTT.

 

I am aware of current micros with A/Ds. But then you need filtering, switching, level conversion, etc, hardware too. It adds up.  Why would you want to spend the money when the ECU has all that built in already?

 

Regards,

Mike Montalvo

digital tuning, inc.

www.pocketlogger.com

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DSMs only use one pin. That doesn't mean they can only check error codes. They use a one wire protocol. You also can check error codes on DSMs with that same pin.  This is why I want a MUTT.

 

I am aware of current micros with A/Ds. But then you need filtering, switching, level conversion, etc, hardware too. It adds up.  Why would you want to spend the money when the ECU has all that built in already?

 

Regards,

Mike Montalvo

digital tuning, inc.

www.pocketlogger.com

 

Mike,

 

As far as I know the one pin on the Starion only presents error codes on its one pin.....  Yes those codes are presented in a serial form, but that is the only data availible on that pin.

 

It's single direction port...  there is no way to signel the ECU through that port to tell it to do something differnt.  The manual shows it as a transistor driving an output line.

 

I dont see any nice half duplux transciever on the ECU for a single wire interface.

 

I am familier with serial interfaces, I just finished writing an interface spec for a customer.

 

Why would I want to spend money when the ECU has it built in?  If the information is readily avialible it seems using the ECU is a good way to process it.  Again I dont know of a readily availible port from where to get it.  Also I plan on adding other functions to my design so regardless I wold have a microcontroller.

 

As far as hardware design goes...  Microchips line of micro controllers need very little external hardware support, the cost is minimal to implement them.  I have done several designs for uder $100 including an LCD.  Wrinting the code is the biggest part, hardware desing is trivial (its also my full time job at work).

 

Kevin C

Design Engineer

Somewhere in CA

Some Small electronics Company

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Very well. I guess theres no point in getting a MUTT.

 

Sorry guys.

 

Sig, Give me your address so I can send you're stuff back.

 

Regards,

Mike Montalvo

digital tuning, inc.

www.pocketlogger.com

 

 

PS: The DSM service manual also only shows a single transistor driving the line that does the 1 wire protocol...

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Kevin C

 

Mike at Digital Tuning Inc. knows his stuff. He's been doing this for a long time.

When I post on the boards I do not do so in order to start a contest in "Who knows best". If you reply in a public forum that you know better I recommend including data that supports the argument.

 

Mike has been interested in giving this a honest try with the Mut-II scan tool but didn't agree on wasting time on having to justify his research.

 

We all want cool stuff made for our cars wether it's 4 injector manifolds, short throw shifters, 3" exhaust etc...

 

So here comes Mike at Digital Tuning Inc. willing to contribute to the SQ community, wouldn't it be politically correct to show the man some respect and aid him in his research rather than pretending to know better?

 

I'm not going to debate this issue, rather I hope someone can tell me who I can possibly borrow or rent a Mut-II scan tool from so we can proceed with this idea!

 

Good times,

 

Sig

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Kevin C

 

Mike at Digital Tuning Inc. knows his stuff. He's been doing this for a long time.

When I post on the boards I do not do so in order to start a contest in "Who knows best". If you reply in a public forum that you know better I recommend including data that supports the argument.

 

Mike has been interested in giving this a honest try with the Mut-II scan tool but didn't agree on wasting time on having to justify his research.

 

We all want cool stuff made for our cars wether it's 4 injector manifolds, short throw shifters, 3" exhaust etc...

 

So here comes Mike at Digital Tuning Inc. willing to contribute to the SQ community, wouldn't it be politically correct to show the man some respect and aid him in his research rather than pretending to know better?

 

I'm not going to debate this issue, rather I hope someone can tell me who I can possibly borrow or rent a Mut-II scan tool from so we can proceed with this idea!

 

Good times,

 

Sig

 

How about dont shoot the messanger?

 

I am providing good information about the system to the best of my knowledge.

 

This was not and is not about whos knows best.  I was trying to do the man a favor by pointing out that the older mits system does not support what he was trying to do.

 

How about a thank you for taking the time to try and help us out?  Or that I was willing to provide other methods to do the same thing?  

 

I have been working on a system that provides that same info but connects like the factory test box did.  I am willing to share my ideas and approach to designing a test system.  

 

As far as pretending to know better....  Just because I have a differant opinion and engauge in a debate thats pretending to know better?  The idea of a debate is to reach a conclusion, that is hopfully correct.

 

I think your post and comments to me are way out of line.  

 

Kevin C  

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Heres an idear . GO BUY A MUT 2 sccan tool if you need one, why doesnet the company have one itself if this is a much needed piec to do this sort of thing? Kinda like me wanting to be an auto mechanic w no socket set?
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Would you buy a $3500 socket set before you knew for sure that you were going to be a mechanic?  It's a rather large investment to make when the return on it is not really known.

 

Kevin seems to have already tried the MUTT and knows it doesn't work so our method for retrieving data won't work. Since we aren't really interested in making an external A/D box, it doesn't seem like there is much we can do.

 

Regards,

Mike Montalvo

digital tuning, inc.

www.pocketlogger.com

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Would you buy a $3500 socket set before you knew for sure that you were going to be a mechanic?  It's a rather large investment to make when the return on it is not really known.

 

Kevin seems to have already tried the MUTT and knows it doesn't work so our method for retrieving data won't work. Since we aren't really interested in making an external A/D box, it doesn't seem like there is much we can do.

 

Regards,

Mike Montalvo

digital tuning, inc.

www.pocketlogger.com

 

Mike,

 

just to be clear....  I have not tried the MUT-II.  My advice is based on my understanding of the 88-89 Mitsubishi fuel injection system.  I have installed severl of these doing turbo swaps so I have read up on them as well as worked with them.

 

I have spent a fair amount of time with a scope hooked up to mine (and others) to make sure it was working right as well as trouble shoot it.

 

I have also worked in the auto industry doing electronic desing, so I have always kept an eye out for what was going on.

 

Currnetly I work in electronics doing work that is similar to what you do (serial comunication and buiding test equipment) but for industrial applications.  I work with a bus standard called ENDAT as well as a couple of propietary buses including one that I developed.

 

Based on that experiance I beleive that the diagnostic pin on the ECU used on a Starion is very limited in capability.  My belief is that this setup is similar to early ABS systems that could only be tested with a breakout box.  

 

I have opened the factoy ECU and I remember seeing a transistor to the test pin output.  I will double check that tonight.  

 

Trust me I was not trying to stomp on anyones parrade....  Just offer some advice based on experaince.

 

You are more than welcome to prove me wrong!!!!!!!!

 

Best Regard,

 

Kevin C

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Well....  I have an answer to the question , will a scanner do anything more than read the factory codes from a 88-89 Starion ECU.

 

I have a schematic of pin 21 on the ECU (aka the diagnostic pin).  

 

I am willing to help and work with people.. but they should have an open mind.  

 

So SIG if you want to know and you ask really nicely, including a public apology I will post a circuit diagram including PN's of the chips and resistor values asociated with the test pin.  I went so far as to remove components and verify their function.....  Some of the part numbers in the ECU dont cross referance very easily.

 

Other than that you can figure it out on your own.   8)

 

For the rest of the board....  I will share, and post the info on my web sight in a few weeks or so.     ;D

 

Kevin C

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Ok,

 

I'm just not that good at teasing people... even if think they dissed me... :'(

 

Besides I was right,  :P internaly pin 21 on the ECU connects to the collector of a PNP type transistor.  There is a 470 ohm buffer resistor beetween the pin and the transistor to prevent damage if the output is shorted.  There is also a 10 K resistor from the pin to ground.

 

The base connection of a PNP is output only.....  You cannot send a serial signal through it.  This is a ONE way comunications port.  

 

in non tech terms....

 

You would have better results pissing up a rope. :o

 

Kevin C

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Kevin, what year is the ECU you are looking at?

 

Sig, What year is the ECU I have? (88?)

 

The circuit I have is vastly different.

 

Pin 21 goes to a 100k to ground, also through a 4.7 k, to the E or C of what is probably a transistor.. it says M317Z...didnt find it after a quick search. (I'm a little reluctant to dissassemble Sigs ECU to see if its NPN or PNP).

 

What I also found is that transistor's base goes to the C(E) of another transistor whos E© goes to a 5V pullup and the base goes to the output of an opamp through a 4.7k. Perfect setup to drive the line.

 

But the kicker is this.  The Original pin, after it goes through the first 4.7k (also has a .47uf to ground) goes to another 4.7k and to the input of an A/D converter. (Pin 3 of a Toshiba TC35095P)

 

Still sure it's not going to work?

 

Regards,

Mike Montalvo

digital tuning, inc.

www.pocketlogger.com

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