Boosted77. Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) This is the correct way to install a 2nd Gen MAF-T on a 87-89 Starion/Conquest (StarQuest). Follow these directions and you shouldn’t have any problems and it should fire right up and run very good by default. Mine runs like a champ. You will need to run a new 14-18 gauge wire out to the distributor harness plug wire (white wire harness side). This will give you the correct rpm signal and will enable the 2nd Gen. MAF-T timing advance amongst other things. This is a must if you want to get the most out of your translator. Do not make the mistake many other guys do by hooking the RPM/ Engine Speed wire to the ignition coil negative at the ECU. This will give you a RPM reading 4-times what it should be since it is pulsing 4 times per engine revolution (1 pulse per plug). If using a GM MAS follow the directions posted below. (If using a stock MAS or 1G MAS, see note below.) There are two harness plugs at the ECU. The large 24-pin plug (A-plug) and the smaller 13-pin plug (B-plug). To keep it simple and not confuse things with wire colors, I choose to use a wire pin slot number system. So for example, if looking at the A-plug start with the ignition coil negative which will be wire #1. It is a large insulated white wire. Count from left to right, (INCLUDING EMPTY PIN SLOTS) 1,2,3,4, etc.. There are 12 pin slots on the front side of the plug and 12 pin slots on the back side of the plug. Flip it around and count left to right, (INCLUDING EMPTY PIN SLOTS) 13,14,15,16, etc. Same with the smaller 13-pin plug. Using the standard connection guide for the 1G DSM which comes with the unit, follow the wiring directions below. 2nd Gen MAF-T — StarQuest Pink ----- Pin 1 B-plug (12 volt) Black ----- Pin 2 B-plug (or) Pin 3 B-plug (Ground) Blue ----- Pin 22 A-plug (TPS) Orange ----- Pin 11 A-plug (O2 Sensor) Purple ----- O2 sensor ground wire (O2 sensor) White ----- (RPM/Engine Speed) Run new 14-18 gauge wire out to distributor plug wire positive. Harness side. (white wire) I ran the wire through the speedo-cable grommet on driver’s side fire wall. This will give you the correct RPM signal to the unit and will allow for much better tuning capabilities. Yellow ----- Pin 2 A-plug Cut and splice. (To MAF) Green ----- Pin 2 A-plug Cut and splice. (To ECU) Brown ----- Install new IAT sensor and pigtail. I went with a popular IAT used by many turbo guys. Available at Autozone. IAT ( duralast part # SU107). Pig tail (Wells part # 235). Grey ----- Pin 22 Barometric Pressure Sensor (MAP) NOTE: If using stock MAS or 1G MAS hook IAT wire to Pin 5 A-plug Once it's installed you need to set up the default parameters. The first screen you should see after turning the unit on is "Configure Select". I run a 3" GM MAF. This is how mine is set up: Configure Select MAF Input: 3" MAF LT1 MAF Output: DSM 1G RPM/Engine: 4 cyl. Displacement: 2.60 Load Source: MAF/RPM Wideband O2: It recognizes a bunch like the AEM UEGO, etc. Aux Log Mode: I set mine to "NONE". V1 Out: Spark Control V2 Out: Volt MAF Edited May 24, 2011 by Boosted77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Sounds good i may use your setup. Now pin 22 barometric sensor, when using a gm mas you eliminate the stock mas which cares the barometric sensor. What baro sensor are you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) With the baro wire hooked up, the 2nd Gen MAF-T holds the value constant. It basically simulates a set value. So the only way to give the 2nd Gen MAF-T an active signal is to install an external 3-bar MAP sensor. Something like this: http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/map-gm-bar-map-sensor-p-161.html On Ebay for WAY cheaper and with pigtail: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180343125862&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en I'm waiting for FullThrottleSpeed.com website to come back up as I am wondering if they offer an adapter harness for any other MAS rather than the standard 3 wire MAS that is used. Here's some good info about the same thing. "TurboBob" who is the MAF-T guru chimes in later down the page: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KmpqkikykgUJ:www.ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/254034-iat-problem-ls6-maf.html+3%22+GM+MAS+BARO+SENSOR+BUILT+IN&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com Edited May 22, 2011 by Boosted77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creakyjoints Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 You know they have a software patch so you dont have to run a wire into the engine compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 You know they have a software patch so you dont have to run a wire into the engine compartment. You will need to run a new 14-18 gauge wire out to the distributor harness plug wire (white wire harness side). This will give you the correct rpm signal and will enable the 2nd Gen. MAF-T timing advance amongst other things Will hooking up to the dist really allow you to have some control over timing? I did read the thread on full throttle about hooking up to the tach signal near the ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 To respond and answer the questions, to be able to download the patch you need to have it plugged in, and powered up. So you need to have a laptop handy; I don't. In addition, if you're your talking about running it to the ignition coil negative, which is the only place to add the tach/speed wire at the ECU, TurboBob stated that it's not a good idea to run it there because of the high voltages seen in that wire. He states you will probably need to run a tach adapter in that case. So really, it took me all of ten minutes to run a dedicated wire from the distributor which gave me a clean correct RPM signal at a safe voltage. The RPM's are dead on and I don't need to worry about messing the unit up. Also to Scotty, yes running the RPM signal allows for the unit's computerized timing advance which you set in the unit to what you want. With out it hooked up it will hold the timing advance to 15 deg. btdc through-out the rpm band. So running a different cam isn't a bad idea. I run the old TEP 274 cam. Also the greatest part about running the RPM wire along with a wideband, and setting you're desired AFR, is it will adjust it plus or minus 5% through-out the rpm band! You can monitor 2 of the settings at a time on the sensor monitor screen. So you can watch your timing and AFR for example. No laptop needed here for tuning. That's the main reason I grabbed up the 2nd Gen compared to the 1st Gen unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 How is one wire tapped into the pick up wire going to change the timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 It holds the (ignition) timing to what you set it to through the RPM band. Now, how it does it is beyond me at this point. I'm still playing in the minor's here too. You'd have to call a tech and ask about the inner workings of the translator. But it definately does adjust it, as I can watch it on the sensor monitor screen as I accelerate through the RPM band. That's why I like the 2nd Gen so much as I don't have to hook up a laptop every time I want to adjust something. That's just plain annoying IMO. In conjuction with a wideband, IAT and BARO it does most of the work for you on-the-fly. You set the parameters, and it does the rest. But it also makes critical adjustments on-the-fly like AFR. That's the ticket with this unit. Think about it, you set the AFR to your desired range, and it keeps it there plus or minus 5%. There is a reason why this unit has grown in popularity. Answer: it's powerful, user friendly, and cheaper than your average stand-a-lone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 It holds the (ignition) timing to what you set it to through the RPM band. Now, how it does it is beyond me at this point. I'm still playing in the minor's here too. You'd have to call a tech and ask about the inner workings of the translator. But it definately does adjust it, as I can watch it on the sensor monitor screen as I accelerate through the RPM band. That's why I like the 2nd Gen so much as I don't have to hook up a laptop every time I want to adjust something. That's just plain annoying IMO. In conjuction with a wideband, IAT and BARO it does most of the work for you on-the-fly. You set the parameters, and it does the rest. But it also makes critical adjustments on-the-fly like AFR. That's the ticket with this unit. Think about it, you set the AFR to your desired range, and it keeps it there plus or minus 5%. There is a reason why this unit has grown in popularity. Answer: it's powerful, user friendly, and cheaper than your average stand-a-lone. Just because the timing changes in the display of the unit doesn't mean it is actually changes, you should verify this by checking with a timing light FIRST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 The spark advance feature is only for certain dsm or gn cars. The maft2 looks like a good unit with lots of potential. It is good to see people looking beyond the base maft model. Once you get an old laptop and start using the full data logging capability of the unit you will likely find it even easier to tune and unlock the potential of the tbi cars.Spark Adv @ WOT (trig) The Spark advance programmed into this page will be used instead of theWOT Spark if the Window Switch is activated. (DSMChips equipped carswith this feature activated, and Buick GN's running the Extender Pro chipsonly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted May 22, 2011 Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 The spark advance feature is only for certain dsm or gn cars. The maft2 looks like a good unit with lots of potential. It is good to see people looking beyond the base maft model. Once you get an old laptop and start using the full data logging capability of the unit you will likely find it even easier to tune and unlock the potential of the tbi cars. Kinda crappy that dsm chips is closed then Out-of-Business! No further sales.Due to too many scheduling conflicts with my other job, I am permanently shutting down DSMChips.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2011 Spark Adv @ WOT (trig)The Spark advance programmed into this page will be used instead of theWOT Spark if the Window Switch is activated. (DSMChips equipped carswith this feature activated, and Buick GN's running the Extender Pro chipsonly) You're talking about a completely different aspect of the unit. It has two settings. Default and window switch (trig). If you choose to use the window switch in the unit, which is only used for high load situations then you have to set an additional timing table and fuel table for that window switch. It is not activated unless you choose to. Just because the timing changes in the display of the unit doesn't mean it is actually changes, you should verify this by checking with a timing light FIRST. It works. When I adjust the timing, as I'm at idle for example, from 15 deg. to 15.5 deg. to 16 deg. the RPM's change with each setting. Hence, it's adjusting the timing on each RPM range setting. It also gradually adjusts it depending on how close you are to the next RPM range setting. You do NOT need a chip. Remember, this car is not an Eclipse. It does not have a CAS or coil packs. It can be set at 500 rpm increments from 2000 RPM to 8000 RPM. It doesn't start at 2000 RPM's and then jump up again at 2500 RPM's, etc. It glides right into your setting as it reaches the set point. You see, the unit has many different parameters. I haven't even scratched the surface of what all the 2nd Gen MAF-T monitors and adjusts. For one, is LOAD. When it senses a load (which you can set the load point or leave it alone so it always adjusts) by either, MAF/RPM, TPS, or MAP, it activates some of the settings. The best thing to do is download the manual and read through it. I need to download and print out another one as mine is pretty ragged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 I belive you are confusing the maf frequency correction with a ignition timing adjustment. There is no way this unit can adjust the ignition timing on these cars. No biggie, timing control is probably overrated at stock injector size power levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 (edited) I guess I'm gonna have to shoot a vid to prove this. Here it is. Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIX0hIshqv4 Edited May 23, 2011 by Boosted77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 I belive you are confusing the maf frequency correction with a ignition timing adjustment. There is no way this unit can adjust the ignition timing on these cars. No biggie, timing control is probably overrated at stock injector size power levels. Why is it so hard to believe that it adjusts timing? It has pages and pages of various parameters that you can adjust and monitor. One of which is MAF frequency or voltage. Why would they put timing advance as a feature in the unit if it's not actually a bonified timing advance? How can it adjust timing by messing with the MAF which is basically messing with the fuel ratio? How am I changing the RPM's on the car by leaning it out or adding fuel, that makes no sense. Because you can set both in it separately and each has a different effect on the car. Is FullThrottleSpeed lying? I don't think so. Have you ever actually used a 2nd Gen MAF-T before or are you going off of a bunch of theories and convos from guys that don't even own the darn thing? I've read through a lot discussions there are about the unit, and alot of the guys don't what the he!! they're talking about. Remember this is not the same as the 1st Gen MAF-T. That adjusts the MAF voltage, really nothing else. But consider this, if I want to add fuel to raise the RPM's at idle which, by in your opinion is done by adjusting the MAF settings, then what happens when I set the timing and decide to set the fuel aka MAF voltage in two different directions. Is the unit gonna get confused as to raise the RPM's or lower them because I'm asking it to either add fuel or take out fuel? What will the unit do, add fuel, or take out fuel? The fuel is staying the same, the timing is changing which is in-turn changing the RPM's. How will messing with the MAF settings change my ignition timing? Answer: It doesn't. The timing is 1 parameter, the MAF is a separate operating parameter. Does you're management system adjust timing? I doubt it. Is that why your standing in disbelief? Why is it so hard to believe that mine does. Yes, it does, yes, it does, oh and yes it does. Let's move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Dont Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 So you still havent checked with a timing light yet? The ignition timing is controlled by the weights in the distributor and vacuum advance not by the ecu like in other cars where the ignition feature could be utiized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creakyjoints Posted May 23, 2011 Report Share Posted May 23, 2011 Yeah I have to agree with Scotty. Our distributor is dumb! Weights and vacuum advance are the only things that can change the timing. It is no different than any distributor with points in it. Well, with the exception of timing change when it goes into boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 First and foremost, I apologize to you guys for my attitude. StarquestRescue, I am sorry to blast you like that, that was uncalled for. I typed that up at about 2:30 this morning. I was ragged and burned out. It took almost an hour to upload the vid. I was pissed. I don't know what it does and how it works at this point. It's called "Spark Control" inside the unit. I did check the timing with a light. I didn't change. You're right, I'm wrong. What in the heck is it doing then? Because it does run so much better when I set the spark advance as compared to leaving at default, 15 deg. through out. This is the only thing I can figure. It ties into the distributor, which ties into the knock box, which ties into the coil, which sends the spark to the plugs. Something's going on and it's making the car run alot better while engaged. FullThrottleSpeed's website has been down for a few days now. I'm looking forward to giving them a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMeyerhoff Posted May 24, 2011 Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 Very interesting. I've got a MAFT2 sitting here, but not installed yet. Can't wait! The directions mine came with don't mention a "spark control" page, only a "WOT SPARK" adjustment for some DSM and GNs. Strange. The ignition timing in our cars is ran by the ignitor and altered by three things; the RPM/weights, the vac advance, and the ECU via the high altitude and cold start signal wire. So unless they are doing something pretty fancy to trick the high altitude programming in the computer, it seems unlikely the actual ignition timing is changing. Perhaps the fuel is being altered instead by the "spark control" page? Seems like a good question for Bob. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2011 (edited) "Spark Control" is in the unit itself. Once you install the unit you need to set up it's default parameters. I'm running a 3" MAF so here's how I set mine up: It's under "Configure Select" which is the first screen you should see when you turn the unit on. This is how I have mine configured: Configure Select MAF Input: 3" MAF LT1 MAF Output: DSM 1G RPM/Engine: 4 cyl. Displacement: 2.60 Load Source: MAF/RPM Wideband O2: It recognizes a bunch like the AEM UEGO, etc. Aux Log Mode: I set mine to "NONE". V1 Out: Spark Control V2 Out: Volt MAF So as you can see, it is in the set-up page for the unit itself Edited May 24, 2011 by Boosted77. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarquestRescue Posted May 25, 2011 Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 (edited) I can be a little blunt some times, and it it true that i have not used a gen 2. If it were mine to play with i would configure it differently. The some vehicles the instruction talk about appies to dsm's and Conguest.It is the maft's makers position that fixed voltages should be sent to the car ecm for the iat and baro input, and that anything else would be double compensation. That is to say that a separate iat sensor is not needed. A map sensor would be imputed to the purple wire for logging purposes and or for your low, mid and high load ranges if configured for a map input. Yes a lot of features and different ways to use the unit. It will take time to sort out what is best or works for you. MAF Translator Gen-II SetupThe vehicle can be equipped with a larger high performance MAF than wasoriginally installed. The new MAF is installed and wired to the MAF inputwire (yellow). Configure the MAF Translator Gen-II MAF Input to matchthe sensor installed on the vehicle. The MAF Output mode is set to matchthe vehicle and ECU/ECM. Frequency MAF signals are sent on theFrequency Out wire (yellow), voltage MAF signals will be sent on either ofvolt out wires (brown or gray). Be sure to configure the volt out mode forVolt MAF . Some vehicles have MAF sensors with other functions orsignals. These other signals are typically Barometric pressure and AirTemperature. These MAF sensors are actually "Air Volume" sensors, andthe ECU requires the temperature and pressure in order to calculate theairflow mass. When using a true MAF sensor, the air temp and baro signalsmust be kept constant to prevent double-compensation. These other sensorscan be simulated by the MAF Translator Gen-II, using the V Out 1 and VOut 2 signals. Set the V out 1 and 2 mode to Use Setpoint in the Configpage, and set the output voltages to normal levels in the Setup page.Frequency or Voltage MAF Edited May 25, 2011 by StarquestRescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted May 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2011 That's some good info right there. Thanks StarquestRescue. I'll play around with some different settings. It does run hella good right now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason c Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 so this may be dumb question , so do u wire in the stock 02 sensor and the wideband , or just the wideband ? with this setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeLobster Posted September 19, 2011 Report Share Posted September 19, 2011 so for all the wires that don't say cut and splice, do we just cut the wire and solder the MAF-T wire to the ecu side and leave the sensor side open? And then for the two cut and splice wires I solder it in so both the stock wire and MAF-T is inputing into the ECU? -Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted77. Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 It comes with really nice wire taps and crimp on connectors. Leave the factory O2 sensor installed and wired (only) to the ECU. Connect the purple O2 wire from the 2ng gen Maf-t and connect it to the wideband. Okay here's where it is as of now. AEM EUGO installed last night, finally. I have no idea why I waited so long to install the darn thing. I've had it sitting around for too long. The learning curve has been kinda steep since most guys go with the 1st gen translator. I've learned enough and played around with the unit to do another write-up. This is how it's set up now with the 3" GM MAF. The only thing that needs to change about the installation are the brown V1 and grey V2 wires. Leave them unhooked and set the V1 and V2 wires to "Use Setpoint" as the parameters as these have to stay constant when running the GM 3" MAF. Using the WB, set you're desired AFR per RPM band and you can then watch the unit doing it's corrrections while watching the the gauge AFR. It stays pretty darn steady. It was breaking loose in the rain tonight in third gear. This is also with new tires, and about 150 lbs of stereo equipment in the trunk. Guys, this things doin' the do. Lol. http://fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc.asp+ic+050transgen2+eq++Tp+ http://fullthrottlespeed.com/itemdesc.asp+ic+0501GADAPT+eq++Tp+ You can get the 3" MAF off of a bunch of cars: http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=107897 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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