What am I missing?

[The Rabbit1]

So here is my list of all my upgrades, yet I still can't get a constant 14.4 nor even a constant 12 volts. Even if I turn off everything at times the car takes forever to charge up, or if the headlights are on it will only show 10 volts. Maybe you guys can help me decide what to do next..

 

Charging:

4ga ground from alternator to engine block

6ga piggyback wire from alternator to battery for increased charging capacity (with fusible link)

dual factory sized fusible links on charging harness from alternator to battery (going to a single 12ga fusible link with the single 6ga charge wire next)

 

Note: When car first starts power shoots to 14 volts. if I turn on lights, heater, radio and everything it comes down to 12. If I sit at a light with brakes lights on it may drop, it may not, if I sit at a stop with a turn signal it will start to decrease, but nowhere near what it used to, the surge of the blinker is almost unnoticeable now.

 

Note: driving with radio and all accessories off did notice the voltage fluctuate when I hit a bump..? this is random and it's not by much

 

Note: driving at night with lights on will cause voltage to drop, driving at 2k rpms will sometimes recharge the voltage, sometimes faster then others, sometimes it hangs at 10v for a mile or two

 

Stereo:

4ga wire from battery to--

100 amp inline fuse after battery to--

4ga wire to 1.25 farad capacitor to amp--

4ga wire from cap to inline 100 amp fuse--

8 ga wire from 100 amp inline fuse to amp

amp is grounded with 8ga--cap is grounded with 4ga to the bolts that hold the electrical device in front of the spare tire..

 

Note: Sound system seems to be in perfect order with almost no/if any power surges under bass.

 

Ignition:

cleaned up ignition switch--

replaced hot wire from connector to switch with 8ga wire soldered in on original terminals(yes it fit)

 

Note: this made my lights brighter, my wipers work faster, the turn signal surge almost disappear, blinkers blink faster, heater blows harder..

 

Added:

35w 6000k VVME HID kit, I am now HID spoiled

 

Removed:

AC condenser pusher fan (it was burned out and suspected amperage draw)

 

Coming soon:

Blower Fan replace (Heater seems to draws a lot of power, normal maybe?)

Rad fan replace (old motors can draw high amps if they are worn and on their way out)

 

thinking about:

CS130, maybe even CS144 mod

Secondary battery in trunk (Maybe just replace front with bigger in the back in Battery box)

 

Overall my charging and electrical is working top notch, when it works correctly. With stereo turned on full blast it will hold 12v for a good while. I have gone through every ground on the car IAW with PQ's write up.

 

I'm thinking my alternator is questionable but hate to replace it with another OEM and get another headache in a few months, opinions on this? since I can't get a bracket for a cs130 I'm working on manufacturing my own next week, but I can't take the car down except on sundays and it has to be back together come monday morning.

 

I am also thinking of going to a big blu marine Optima in the trunk either as my primary or secondary battery any opinions on this?

 

I'm thinking of going to a CS144, same size as a CS130 but I can get it in 140amp size with the iceberg case cheaper than a OEM alternator so I may do that, the camaro is currently apart for preps for the season so I will be using the CS130 out of it for building the bracket.

 

I guess if anyone can think of a wire I missed or a terminal I should clean let me know so I can work these gremlins out. Thanks in advance.

Edited March 25, 2012 by The Rabbit1

[JohnnyWadd]

Awesome i wanna try the 8 guage wire upgrade you did. I think its you alternator. You know you can open it up and and replace the brushes and clean it with a pencil. Just a thought based on how a simple 8 guage think worked.

[The Rabbit1]

Awesome i wanna try the 8 guage wire upgrade you did. I think its you alternator. You know you can open it up and and replace the brushes and clean it with a pencil. Just a thought based on how a simple 8 guage think worked.

I went to a 6ga because 6ga will hold 200amps, more than enough to run whatever my heart desires.

[The Rabbit1]

so I headed out, confirmed if I turn on the heater or the lights the voltage drops to 12 right away. If I sit at a light with brake lights it will start to lose voltage under 12. Blinker causes small surge unless voltage is already at 12 then it is pretty bad but wil come right back up. Voltage will not come right back if the lights or heater are on. Otherwise it comes back rather quickly. I'm definitely thinking alternator. Ideas?

[JohnnyWadd]

I went to a 6ga because 6ga will hold 200amps, more than enough to run whatever my heart desires.

Oh I thought it said 8 guage.

 

ya it did...

 

 

Ignition:

cleaned up ignition switch--

replaced hot wire from connector to switch with 8ga wire soldered in on original terminals(yes it fit)

 

Note: this made my lights brighter, my wipers work faster, the turn signal surge almost disappear, blinkers blink faster, heater blows harder..

 

 

Edited March 26, 2012 by JohnnyWadd

[Ironside]

If its a factory Mitsubishi altinator I would take it to a stater and altinator shop and have it checked and rebuilt.

[Burton]

How are you getting your voltage numbers? Mulimeter? Stock voltmeter, or aftermarket voltmeter?

 

 

No matter what, don't trust the stock voltmeter. I've found those to be consistantly 2-3 volts off and highly unreliable for true voltage numbers.

[The Rabbit1]

How are you getting your voltage numbers? Mulimeter? Stock voltmeter, or aftermarket voltmeter?

 

No matter what, don't trust the stock voltmeter. I've found those to be consistantly 2-3 volts off and highly unreliable for true voltage numbers.

stock, but when compared to a multimeter at the terminals it's just about dead even. I did drive around today since I took the day off to run errands, voltage will hold at 14 while driving if I don't use any accesories, but when I restart the car it always reads 12v, I'm thinking the optima red top won't go above 12v anymore and the alternator can't keep up with the load, will probably just do a blue optima and the chevy alternator upgrade.

[JohnnyWadd]

I reread your opening post and with all the attention to wiring and grounds all i can think of is the factory alternator is the issue.

[The Rabbit1]

After some research I stumbled upon the specs of optima batteries..

 

red tops full charge: 12.85 volts

Yellow top full charge: 13 volts

Blue top full charge: 13 volts

 

this explains why it always reads 12 when I get in the car, the alternator is charging correctly (14volts) however it cannot keep up with the high load of HIDS, heater, stereo, turn signals, etc..

 

so I will be upgrading the alternator, I might still go to a blue top for the higher amperage and reserve capacity, just need to figure out how I want to mount this beast in the trunk

specs:

 

D31M Optima Blue top: 12 13/16" length, 6 1/2" width, 9 3/8" height

OEM Size 51: 9 3/8" length, 5 1/16" width 13 3/4" height,

currently running a 34 size: 10" length, 6 7/8" width, 7 13/16 height (this is max size for the tray and fits nicely with the terminals on appropriate sides)

 

thinking I will mount the battery sideways layed down on the driver's side, need to make a tray for it, and it needs to be removable.. damn projects

[ucw458]

In all your posts I read nothing about a second battery ground. You grounded the alt to the block but did you add a second 4ga ground from the battery to a different chassis location? That should be one of the first things you do when adding a stereo. People always wanna run a thick + cable to their amps then just ground them to the chassis. Meaning the stock vehicle ground that already has to run the entire car now has to run the amps too.

[The Rabbit1]

In all your posts I read nothing about a second battery ground. You grounded the alt to the block but did you add a second 4ga ground from the battery to a different chassis location? That should be one of the first things you do when adding a stereo. People always wanna run a thick + cable to their amps then just ground them to the chassis. Meaning the stock vehicle ground that already has to run the entire car now has to run the amps too.

very good catch there, hadn't thought of that. I was about to change the battery ground to a thicker wire but hadn't thought of that being a problem at the moment. I haven't changed the ground due to not being able to figure out how to get a side clamp on the cable. Though I am about to go to a rear battery so I won't be needing the side clamp wire anymore.

[The Rabbit1]

I also noticed now that it's warmer, if I use anything but the heater I can drive as long as I want and my voltage stays right about 12v.

 

if I use the heater for even five minutes, even if I turn it off, my voltage will not want to come back up past 10v, unless I drive for a while after I turned the heater off. Could my A/C controller be bad? or something like the blower motor or the blower motor resistor?

[ucw458]

I also noticed now that it's warmer, if I use anything but the heater I can drive as long as I want and my voltage stays right about 12v.

 

if I use the heater for even five minutes, even if I turn it off, my voltage will not want to come back up past 10v, unless I drive for a while after I turned the heater off. Could my A/C controller be bad? or something like the blower motor or the blower motor resistor?

 

 

Well it's often overlooked but the blower motor pulls alot of current. That 20 amp heater fuse is for the blower motor. My wife's escort has a 30 amp fuse for the blower. Also try pressing economy twice whenever you have the heater on. Pressing economy twice disables the AC. That way if you set heat to 74 the car isn't blending heat and AC to give you 74 degrees. It wastes gas and also runs the cooling fans which is another electrical load.

[The Rabbit1]

 

 

Well it's often overlooked but the blower motor pulls alot of current. That 20 amp heater fuse is for the blower motor. My wife's escort has a 30 amp fuse for the blower. Also try pressing economy twice whenever you have the heater on. Pressing economy twice disables the AC. That way if you set heat to 74 the car isn't blending heat and AC to give you 74 degrees. It wastes gas and also runs the cooling fans which is another electrical load.

good to know.

 

replaced my ground with a 4ga from block to chassis to battery, made a smidge of difference, but still acting up, alternator will be here in a few days I hope

[The Rabbit1]

Alternator is in, got a 100a unit from Dodge2004srt4 to hold me till I get the 140a bracket and pulley made..

 

much bigger rectifier/regulator on the back of it, but it has no grounding stud like the OEM.. grr..

[The Rabbit1]

So here is my updated list of all upgrades, yet I still can't get a constant 14.4 nor even a constant 12 volts under high volume with lights on. Even if I turn off everything at times the car takes a few minutes to charge up, or if the headlights are on it will only show 10 volts for even longer and max out at 12v. Maybe you guys can help me decide what to do next..

 

Charging:

4ga ground from engine block to chassis to battery

6ga wire from alternator to battery for increased charging capacity (with dual fusible links)

 

Note: When car first starts power hesitates for a minute and then shoots to 14 volts. if I turn on lights, heater, radio and everything it comes down to 12. If I sit at a light with brakes lights on it may drop, it may not, if I sit at a stop with a turn signal it will start to decrease, but nowhere near what it used to, the surge of the blinker is almost unnoticeable now.

 

Note: driving with radio and all accessories off did notice the voltage fluctuate when I hit a bump..? this is random and it's not by much

 

Note: driving at night with lights on will cause voltage to drop, driving at 2k rpms will sometimes bring voltage to 14v, sometimes faster then others, sometimes it hangs at 12v for a mile or two

 

Stereo:

4ga wire from battery to-- 100 amp inline fuse after battery to-- 4ga wire to 1.25 farad capacitor to amp-- 4ga wire from cap to inline 100 amp fuse-- 8 ga wire from 100 amp inline fuse to amp-- amp is grounded with 8ga--cap is grounded with 4ga to the bolts that hold the electrical device in front of the spare tire..

(I think cap is either crap or toast, it says 1.25f but still doesn't compensate for the bass)

 

Note: Sound system seems to be in perfect order with only minor power surges under bass unless headlights or heater is on.

 

Ignition:

cleaned up ignition switch--

replaced hot wire from connector to switch with 8ga wire soldered in on original terminals(yes it fit)

 

Note: this made my lights brighter, my wipers work faster, the turn signal surge almost disappear, blinkers blink faster, heater blows harder.. during the day, with headlights on or heater or more than moderate volume they go right back down

 

Added:

35w 6000k VVME HID kit, I am now HID spoiled

 

Removed:

AC condenser pusher fan (it was burned out and suspected amperage draw)

 

Coming soon:

Blower Fan replace (Heater seems to draws a lot of power, normal maybe?)

Rad fan replace (old motors can draw high amps if they are worn and on their way out)

 

thinking about:

CS130, maybe even CS144 mod

Secondary battery in trunk (Maybe just replace front with bigger in the back in Battery box)

 

Overall my charging and electrical is working top notch, just looses voltage with heater on pretty badly. even with just headlights and heater it's a pretty big drop, . With stereo turned on full blast it will hold 12v for a bit, but with headlights or heater it will go to 10 or so. I have gone through every ground on the car IAW with PQ's write up.

 

I'm thinking my battery is the next step..

thinking of going to a big blue marine Optima in the trunk either as my primary or dual blue tops, any opinions on this?

 

I'm thinking of going to a CS144 or a CS130 if the 110A alternator doesn't cut it.

 

I guess if anyone can think of a wire I missed or a terminal I should clean/check let me know so I can work these gremlins out. Thanks in advance.