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Powerful TBI


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#1 jinx

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 06:55 PM

460hp @28psi 2.6 TBI   see corolla ~8:38 in video   https://www.youtube....h?v=GJ0sWoYmWGU
looks like 'stock' hardpipes and TBI(most likely standalone controlled). Don't see any nitros
could uncorking restrictions = big turbo + exhaust manfold ....and a 'good' cam/valvesprings perhaps ? Better ignition map
Car must be a beast





#2 ucw458

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 09:02 PM

That motor does not have 460 hp.  Stock intake, stock FPR, only 2 injectors and they are likely stock size given there is no adjustable FPR.  No way this has even 300 hp.  SQR was the only member I know of who got TBI to 400.  But that took alot of mods and he was pushing closer to 40 psi iirc.
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#3 Preludedude

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 09:05 PM

I agree.   No way itís over 300hp.    Not even close.

#4 speedyquest

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Posted 18 April 2020 - 11:07 PM

I third that, sorry but there is just no way...

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#5 jinx

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 06:50 AM

Not so quick to dismiss.
What's he doing different that nobody here ever does ?
non-stock manifold with a bigger turbo/external gate plus cranked up to 28psi
SQR dyno'd 411hp iirc, 20g/td06sl2/8cm @28psi
How many times have we heard it here, that the hotside uncorks 2.6 HP? U reckon 50 hp gain is a stretch ?

Remember Bluecooks dad turbo escapades ? ...almost 100 hp gain on TBI, by meticulous measurements and persistence with Schnieder cams
Something else hardly ever done. We don't know the cam story here

Most folks claim MPI as a huge 'flow' over TBI. I've never seen this manifested at the tires, of any street 2.6
Example:  Kronus beautiful MPI td05/18 @28psi: 321hp    Viper TBI: 334hp, same td05/18g @ 28psi

Can't tell from the video, if injector hat modded for bigger squirters
Corolla definitely has a bigger fuel feed line(vs puny oem)... something else u never see
I've seen rail pressure "hacks" on some fast hardware, eg.... restricted return line, crushed oem fuel regulator, etc..

Now that intercooler piping .... dunno :unsure:

#6 scott87star

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 08:49 AM

The math works the other way too, watch "every cam works" by Richard Holdner.  So, ASSUMING they've struck the correct balance coldside and hotside (they're both at roughly the same pressure) you have 28 psi boost and 14.7 atmo or 42.7 psia pressure giving 460 HP OR 460/42.7= 10.8 HP per psi.  10.8*14.7= 159 HP naturally aspirated, does that sound likely?  I'm on the 2.6 astron G54b facebook group and the NA guys running a hotter cam and weber induction with headers hope to make 125-130 so I'm skeptical a single 46mm OEM throttle body is going to support 159 HP NA regardless of cam choice.  There are a lot of "happy" dynos out there, the incentive to give your client nice numbers is there and so are the environmental corrections that determine output.
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#7 louswheel

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 12:42 PM

I don't think 460HP. Maybe his "butt dyno" tells him its over 400hp because its a small little light car and the torque from that G54 feels like alot of power. :lol:

#8 Gibbon

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 04:47 PM

I'd like to cite occams razor and 5000 years of established tradition of flat out lying about how fast your mode of transport is

Most charitable explanation I can make for this claim is some dodgy extrapolation "I make 230hp on 14psi, therefore I declare with the powers given to me by the seat of my tail, that I would surely make 460 on 28psi"

#9 ucw458

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 05:01 PM

View Postjinx, on 19 April 2020 - 06:50 AM, said:

Not so quick to dismiss.
What's he doing different that nobody here ever does ?
non-stock manifold with a bigger turbo/external gate plus cranked up to 28psi
SQR dyno'd 411hp iirc, 20g/td06sl2/8cm @28psi
How many times have we heard it here, that the hotside uncorks 2.6 HP? U reckon 50 hp gain is a stretch ?

Remember Bluecooks dad turbo escapades ? ...almost 100 hp gain on TBI, by meticulous measurements and persistence with Schnieder cams
Something else hardly ever done. We don't know the cam story here

Most folks claim MPI as a huge 'flow' over TBI. I've never seen this manifested at the tires, of any street 2.6
Example:  Kronus beautiful MPI td05/18 @28psi: 321hp Viper TBI: 334hp, same td05/18g @ 28psi

Compare your own examples and you will see discrepancies.  Chrisviper's car ran x2 extra injectors with a piggyback ECU and lots of other mods to get 330hp.  Do you see any of that in that video?  Kronos's car was not set up right.  Mine made 300 hp @ around 18-20 psi.  That was years ago on a TD05h 20g with 2.5" exhaust.  It will likely do more now, if I ever finish it.

The exhaust side is not the biggest restriction in a TBI car, the intake is.  Swap a MPI intake on a stock car and you'll have full boost at around 1200 rpm.
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#10 jinx

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 06:37 PM

Kronus 321 was the highest HP 18g car(behind Vipers), and u think there is something wrong with it ?
Could it be MPI not showing you this 'huge flow improvement' over TBI, perception ?

Viper ran a single additional injector, still centrally located + Emanage = Zero affect on stock TBI vs MPI flow

SQR did not run 40psi. Your info is way off
SQR put in that work(rest his soul) resulting in a top performing TBI car
This TBI is a perfect comparison - "happy" dynos or not, it's all relative
So it boils down to.... either you think a 20G TBI can no way make 400hp. or......
An aftermarket manifold + bigger T4 turbo/external gate, can not gain 50hp
Take your pick, it can't be both

there was a florida toyota starlet posted here way back with a similar combo
stock g54 + TBI + standalone + header + t3/t4. Ran 10.4 1/4. Ain't happenin with no '300hp' 5 speed car

#11 BC_99

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Posted 19 April 2020 - 08:11 PM

All the number crunching, info comparisons, and wiener measuring aside...

I don’t think that stock ic piping will manage the boost level required to make the claimed hp. I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but it’s highly unlikely that the stock soft hose is capable of holding that psi.

I’m not saying the car isn’t cool, and doesn’t make good power to weight... I’m just saying sustainable hp at that level out of a g54 isn’t a likely scenario with tbi. Sorry... half the fuel and air available with comparable setups on mpi just doesn’t add up. Those details and the rest of the video just screams exaggeration to me.

Sorry..

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#12 ucw458

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 01:29 AM

I understand your passion.  And I do like the G54B love.  Just remember you are defending a strangers unsubstantiated claims.  I wouldn't fight too hard to defend that without proof.


Believe us or not, that setup can not put out 300 hp let alone 460.
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#13 Gibbon

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 03:43 AM

at what sort of power level does the stock intercooler and piping become a bottleneck?

#14 ucw458

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 06:48 PM

That's a good question.  To avoid writing a book I will try to summarize my thoughts on that.  The stock parts can be a bottleneck even on a stockish car.  Our IC was big for it's day but not as big as we would like it to be.  It can heat soak quickly.

IC stuff is a supporting mod.  By itself on a stock car better IC parts will be better but only a slight power gain.  Where that stuff shines is on a fully modded setup.  I didn't notice a difference when I put hardpipes on my TBI car.  Looked prettier but didn't seem to have any more noticable power.  The same can be said for an aftermarket exhaust manifold and turbo.  An upgrade for sure but not much gain by itself.  I made a header years ago.  I dynoed the header then swapped the stock manifold back on and dynoed again about 30 minutes later.  The SQ was mostly stock.  Mods were 2.5" catless exhaust, OVCP, TD05 16g and manual boost controller set to 14 psi.  The header dynoed only 10 hp more.  One question I didn't answer was would a ported stock manifold flow as much as the header.
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#15 Gibbon

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 07:58 PM

Thanks for the reply... I have a sub 300hp power figure in mind, and I did a few calculations and think the stock piping is already on the large side for that! So as much as I like bolting shiny things on, it sounds like the stock i/c and piping will do

I'd like to do something about the tiny little throttle body though, but not looking to go MPI

Edited by Gibbon, 20 April 2020 - 08:00 PM.


#16 ucw458

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 08:48 PM

The throttle body size wont be an issue for a sub 300 car.  The best bang for your buck mods I did back when mine was TBI are 2.5" catless exhaust and a MBC set to 15 psi.
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#17 Boostlee1985

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Posted 20 April 2020 - 10:40 PM

Jinx thank you for your interest in that yellow Corolla and I appreciate you backing me up one of the nine reasons why a lot of people who make a lot of power with the platform donít brag about it because no one would believe it I definitely would not have given out the power numbers if they werenít true so Iím going to do a video on that car specifically so you can see the Dyno numbers and youíll be able to see the willies it popped at the track including all of the information that motor has ported top hat to fit the bigger injectors bigger turbo ARP everythingUpgraded valve springs using 112 octane produced 460 or 430 hp at 30 psi

#18 jinx

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 07:13 AM

so COOL of you to pop in & drop some info on that setup! Always like seeing a killer G54 set up
Don't see what's so hard to believe, about a T4 making 460hp. Strange how they accept a smaller 20G dyno ~400 tho... wierdos
Sharpest minds with the fastest cars don't do forums. Fact.. so I've learned to approach things with a more open mind

Quote

I understand your passion.  And I do like the G54B love.  Just remember you are defending a strangers unsubstantiated claims.  I wouldn't fight too hard to defend that without proof
therein lays the problem... that passion is a figment of your imagination, yet you repond to it!
The logic is real, but you ignore it :wacko:

Quote

Believe us or not, that setup can not put out 300 hp let alone 460
yep, and the 10.4 sec starlet mentioned, with a similar combo, but smaller turbo.... should be ~200hp then
It would take a hefty dose of 'stupid', to get me to that space - No thanks.... You rock wit dat  :D

#19 NotStock88

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 09:32 AM

Waiting for dyno sheet...
NOOB

#20 Preludedude

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Posted 21 April 2020 - 11:21 AM

We arenít saying that turbo canít reach 460whp...

But stock fuel setup?   Not even an adjustable regulator?   I donít believe that fuel system on that car supports 460whp.

Cloth pipes can hold 28psi?

Iíd have to see a video of that car on a dyno to believe it. I wouldnít believe a dyno sheet. But I want to see that fuel setup and stock pipes dynoing at 460whp....

Edited by Preludedude, 21 April 2020 - 11:25 AM.





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