clow340 Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 just thought id show how i shortened mine for some more angle. this kinda goes with my saturn rack swap i did (which im super behind on updating and probably wont be updated anytime soon..) but can be used with the factory steering set up for sure. the first thing i did was figure out how everyone else was doing this with other cars. its not exactly a common thing here in the starquest world to go about cutting the steering all up and trying to get more angle for drifting or make the car more responsive by quickening the steering ratio with some geometry changes. the easiest one to look at for answers are the 240 guys, theyre the ones that are getting 60 degrees or more of angle with just knuckle mods. how ever there are tons of horror stories of the knuckles breaking from being improperly welded. There knuckles are made out of cast iron and is not easy to weld. For those that do not know ill be quick here, cast iron has a ton of carbon, if you weld it with a carbon steel wire via mig it attracts all the surrounding carbon in the metal to the welded area and makes it super brittle next to the weld. If you use nickel rod via arc welding the nickel will absorb some of the carbon, but sometimes the carbon just builds up around the weld and makes it brittle next to the weld just like mig. if you use the stainless wire in a mig it works similar to nickel rod for arc. Ive heard that you can tig the iron with stainless filler and that it works pretty well too. ALL OF THESE METHODS require heating of the iron to 350 or so with peening and a slow cool down. And its still not a 100% success rate. So before i even started this i needed to know what the knuckles are made out of. I work in a tool room but i dont have access to anything that i could use to quick determine what its made out of. about an hour of digging through some ancient books and some googling i figured ill use a spark test method to figure out what it was (ill let you look it up). Lucky for us i concluded that the knuckles were made of cast steel and can be welded just like any other kind of carbon steel with no cast iron issues. So, let us begin. Im pretty luck in that i work with manual mills and lathes all day and have a full machine shop at my disposal. first thing i did was decided how much i was going to take off and how i was going to do it. I figured that a .250 would be a good start, so a .250 end mill will do. a band saw wouldve worked too. (unfortunatly i have no during pics just before and afters) http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006481.jpg you can kinda see between the photo above and this one where the cut was made. i tried to keep it inbetween the bolt hole and and corner. be sure to scribe a line so you can match the two pieces up after you cut it in two be fore cutting it. http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006491.jpg http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006501.jpg next we're cutting that pesky steering stop off. itll make it easier to weld and now you have a test piece to weld on. http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006511.jpg http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006521.jpg http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006531.jpg http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006541.jpg THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!! this is where those countless hours of internet searching and forum picking comes in. i HIGHLY suggest you do not just weld the knuckle back together via the original scribed line you made at the beginning. if you do you are increasing the ackerman angle that the steering will have meaning your inside tire will turn far more in relating to the outside tire during turns instead of just a little like how the factory had it set. for example if the original set up had the outside tire at 35 degrees on the outside and 38 degrees on the inside just welding in back on would make it 35 degrees on the outside and 42 degrees on the inside. the inside tire would be scrubbing too much. I drew the whole steering set up out on paper and in solidworks to figure out what changes would do what. With our steering i came up with every .250in shortened it should be moved to the center of the knuckle (90degrees to the spindle or towards the outside of the car) .250in. this keeps factory ackerman very close to stock as well as minimizing bump stop too, just more angle. original scribe markhttp://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006551.jpg .250in off sethttp://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006561.jpg next you go ahead and put some tacks on it (i was tigging it with stainless rod) http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006591.jpg if you only took .250in off it still lines up really good on the top and bottom. http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006611.jpg put some grooves in it for good penetration http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006581.jpg some ugly welds and some paint later your done! almost looks factory.. http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006631.jpg http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006641.jpg you will how ever need new bump stops, but you should easy pick up an extra 10 degrees or more in angle. http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006661.jpg http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv44/skunkworks_1/conquest/CAM006671.jpg and your all done!! And it wont be all sketchy like a welded 240 knuckle (no offense to anyone hope this helped anyone that was wondering about more angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott87star Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy larry Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 How soon will you start the engine swapping thread. Looks good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clow340 Posted August 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2015 ill come back to it this winter some time, right now im finishing an addition on my house.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patra_is_here Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 cool mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hey How about i try those out for you ? Seriously I will install them and take measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clow340 Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hey How about i try those out for you ? Seriously I will install them and take measurements. hmm.. i would like to see how they work on a factory car, or one with d2s. im using the d2s and they limit the suspension travel to like 4 inches. i was banking on that to limit any bump steer that might be present. ill pm you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menesing Drifter Posted September 9, 2015 Report Share Posted September 9, 2015 I like this idea a lot. I was thinking I'd have to make a set of custom knuckles to get more angle but this seems way simpler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autotr8er2 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Wow, cool idea. I would recommend having custom knuckles made as a final product. Could earn your expenses back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 need these flat ones !! http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/starionkiller/th_SAM_5382.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technology Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Good write up, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clow340 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Huh, I didnt think the stock gyometry would work right with flat ones.. let alone being factory o.o where do i get a set of those??? I can copy those flat ones and just make a quick jig to bore the ball joint at an angle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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