Chad Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I have succesfuly installed a T56 in my car (though not finnished), and I would like to make kits available as a group purchase, after which kits will still be available, but pricng will go up. Â it will have the following in it: >1 adapter plate, will be 3/8" 6061 aluminum and includes nessesary grade 8 bolts >1 Pinion flange, Â will be made from solid 7075 aluminum (strongest there is), it will allow you to use the spicer 1350 U-joints, this is about as big as you can get in a car, and will handle well over 1000 HP. Â this is a common item, easy to find and not too expensive. Â It is nessesaty to do this adapter since you will be needing a custom driveline for the GM output shaft on the trans, and you may as well go kick-tail big while you're at it. Â Smaller ones would still cost about as much. >1 flywheel adapter, will be a bolt on shim, it will attach to the face of your flywheel (any brand/size) Â turning it into an 11" GM clutch pattern, (stock is >9") and it uses a replaceble fidanza incert. Â This assembly is nessesary since the depth of the input shaft is different from stock, and the input splines are larger too. Â The shim will add the needed .770 " to the face of the flywheel, and have the GM pattern on the face. Â It will be made of 6061 aluminum. Â These dimensional changes also mean a new clutch, so you may as well use a common, cheap storng GM clutch. they can be gotten for $300-500+ in HP ranges from 350 to 1000 in streetable form. Â The one I will offer in another GP will be a stage 3 which is rated at 680 HP and fully streetable action. Â This is still in the estimate stage and pricing will change as more participate, but this is what you are looking at so far: ~$225 for adapter plate and rear trans support ~$175 for pinion flange for 1350 U-joints, and to use GM drivelines ~$200 for flywheel adapter to use 11" GM clutches ~$600 Kit price also in seperate GP's there would be : ~$400 11" GM clutches rated at 680 HP, near stock peddal feel ~$500 3 1/2" aluminum driveline rated at 950 HP Â Â using 1350 U-joints This is how it would work I need 10 minimum to get this pricing on the kits, 5 minum for the drivelines, and 5 for the clutches. Â You could get the kit, but not have to go in on the clutches or drivelines, those can be purchased later, in any brand, Â from any vendor, and at whatever price you find. Â As long as they are standard GM 11" pull type clutches and the drivelines are the correct length, (I will provide all specs) To participate, I need $200 down to cover some expences, the ~$400 remainder will be due upon shipment. Â Time line will be about 1 month once the kit GP is "officaly" opened. Â It will not be opened untill myself and another person (to remain nameless at this point) has run this kit and verified it is 100% ready. Interested parties are listed below, if you are not on this list but are likely to buy a kit once available, please let me know. Â I need atleast 10 actual buyers to make this practical, otherwise the machining costs more than double. Â No one wants to make these parts in very small quantities. Â I will list 15 spots because "life" happens and usualy a few have to drop out due to financial situations. Â Keep in mind, you can buy this kit now at the reduced price, and puckup the other more expensive items later. 1: Greywulf 2: Smog 3: Jr_ss 4: 88Whitestarion 5: ESI-R 6: Xtremeboost 7: SHhhhh 8: 4cylfury 9: mrdodge01 10: 89tsi20g 11: Indiana (1st kit) 12: Indiana (2nd kit) 13: Dan 14: BMWTech 15: turbo26tsi Picture of stock and T56 side by side: http://www.nwstarquest.com/Dcp00697.jpg picture of the LT-1 bell housig only mounted to block: http://www.nwstarquest.com/Dcp00714.jpg Picture of trans tunnel before hammering it out: http://www.nwstarquest.com/Dcp00726.jpg Picture after hammering: http://www.nwstarquest.com/Dcp00728.jpg Clearance on passenger side: http://www.nwstarquest.com/Dcp00730.jpg Clearance on drivers side: http://www.nwstarquest.com/Dcp00731.jpg overall fitment: http://www.nwstarquest.com/Dcp00732.jpg to answer a few frequently asked questions, see following post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 So where do I get a T56? Ebay, the junk yard, a buddy...  They typicaly sell for $1000 on ebay in good used condition, less if the seller will not ship and you have pick it up.  At a junkyard, the prices vary a great deal, it you are smart and have good yards, you can probably get one for $500 or so.  You can get them brand new for ~$2000, and rebuild kits are about $300. How many versions are there, and which are compatable? They came stock in all vipers, any 5.7L camaro/firebird 93-current, Mustang cobras 03-current (I belive) and corvettes 97-current. Which one do I want?  The kit is designed for the LT-1 camaro firebird, that is the 93-97 model.  The LS-1 (98-current) is a different bell housing and uses a different clutch/TOB assembly.  You can convert one style to another since they are somewhat modular,a nd different ones have different gear sets, but it ends up costing more piecing one together that way.  Don't even look at the corvette ones, they are not compatable with any other setups. What is the HP/TQ rating? It is reported that the TQ rating of the LT-1 is 500 ft/lb (http://ddperformance.com), there are a few models with more capacity, but little is actualy different between them.  This rating is conservitive, and they can be beefed up a great deal if you want to spend the $$.  Go to http://www.g-forcetransmissions.com/ and you can get one to handle 900 HP/800 ft/lb  What about the shifter location? It actualy fits in the stock location   just a little taller What about the starter? stock starter, stock location How much modification is needed to the chassis? you will need to use a hammer (typical framing hammer) and push the passenger side over about 1/2"  the top of the trans tunnel needs to go up 1/2".  I did this in about 20 minutes with a few breaks inbetween, no damage or visible changes inside.  You are simply flattening some ribbing in the trans tunnel incert, not actual unibody damage. How about the hydro clutch slave? It will use the stock clutch master, which opperate the GM style slave via a provided adapter hose.  The GM slave is only $50, and most used trans setups will come with that still attached.  For the price, I just put a new one on mine. the auto and manual trans tunnels are different, what does this mean for the kit? The auto tunnel is wider, but I belive they the same height as a manual tunnel,  the top of the tunnel will most liekly need the same amout of hammering, but the sides should clear fine.  the trans bracket will have to be different so it will need to be made clear upon order that you have an auto chassis. what are the gear ratios? what difference will differntial gear swaps yield?? T-56 ratios      stock ratios   T-56 w/ 3.90    w/ 4.22 gears 1st =  2.66      3.369        2.926           3.166 2nd = 1.78      2.035        1.958           2.118 3rd =  1.30      1.360        1.430           1.547 4th =  1.00      1.000        1.100           1.190 5th =  .74        .856         .814            .88 6th =  .50                    .55              .595 What is the weight difference of this swap? About 50 pounds grand total. can I use the stock flywheel or do I need a fidanza? The fidanza and HKS flywheels require no modificatoin.  The stock flywheel MUST be lightened to clear the adapter plate.  The lightening amount is up to you, most get them cut down to 21-23 #'s, as long at the back side is flush with the ring gear.  Cost for this is between $50 and $150 depending on how how shop. I'll add more as questions get asked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smog Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Guess I am going to work tomorrow afterall ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_ss Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Damn, sounds like a good deal Chad. Let us know how it all goes. I'll end up blowing my tranny out with the MPI conversion (it's starting to go now as it is). Let us know when we can start sending the money and where it gets sent too. Mustang gears in a Starquest, sweet deal here comes 150 with ease. Chad one question, what about the slave cyl. setup? Do we use the same style? I'm thinking we are going to have to adapt to a GM style... Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 JR, I just answered yoru question in my FAQ post, thanks for bringing that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 who is making the adapter plate and cross member mount? Dose the plate bolt between the block and the tranny? Sure would have been nice to know this kit was in the works. You may have been 1 person closer to a GP. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Venable Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Wish I had the money :'( But a question that I'm sure will be asked: Was the tranny tunnel modification done on a manual tunnel, or a auto tunnel? If manual, will any modification be needed to run in an auto tunnel? Good job on getting us a reliable tranny alternative (for high power appplications). Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Thanks Derik, I'll answer the ? in the above FAQ post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Chris, you may want to use pinion flange in my GP if you have a hard time getting drivelines to hold up. Â It will allow you to use any aftermarket 1350 U-joint setup instead of making a frankenstein driveline out of stock parts. Â Same for the clutch shim, if you use a larger than stock bell housing and can fit a larger clutch in there, you may want to go bigger, I'm sure you know by now it's hard to find a good clutch in the 8 3/4" class that we have stock. I didn't know if this would be a viable project untill I actualy had one mounted in the car. I wasn't about to offer it up just to find out it woulnd't fit without welding/cutting since most people here won't/can't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88whitestarion Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Chad, Nice job. Put me on the list. Thanks, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey_Wulf Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Very nice job! Once again you come thru! Put me on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felginator Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 I would like to be put on the list also! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeaston Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 FAQ: What are the ratios in the LT1 trans? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Eeaston, I'll get your info posted as soon as I get a reliable source. I've updated the origional post with a potential buyers list, If you decide you want out, just let mem know, there are not obligations what-so-ever untill the GP is officaly started, some time in the next month or so. If you are not on this list but are likely to buy a kit once available, please let me know. I need atleast 10 actual buyers to make this practical, otherwise the machining costs more than double. No one wants to make these parts in very small quantities. I will list 15 spots because "life" happens and usualy a few have to drop out due to financial situations. Keep in mind, you can buy this kit now at the reduced price, and puckup the other more expensive items later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smog Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 It looks like they offered quite a few different ratios depending on the year,m gm even made a close ration gear box for racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 We'll need more interest for this or it won't happen... Â I'll still make one for myself and the guy helping me prototype, but that will be it. If you are siting on the fence just watching but are interested, say something. If you know someone else that isn't a regular club member but would be interested, get them in touch with me or this site somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted November 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 I need to emphasize that you do NOT have to drop $2000+ now, concider the the benifit of buying the $600 kit now, and getting the transmission, driveline, and clutch later. Think of it as an investment in your cars future. See is as a 2-3 step process, much like a MPI conversion is. The supply of 88-89 transmissions wont last for ever and neither will the parts. With people starting to make the numbers they are now, and the seeming limit of 425 TQ which is getting easier and easier to get, people should make plans for one those two reasons to convert. A good friend of mine just spent nealry $1000 on a "race built" 88/89 with cryo treated gears and all, It was rated at 650 HP and 1 year warranty, it lasted 2 months with only ~325 HP and ~410 TQ at the wheels. The T56 is rated for more than that from the factory, and designed for a heavier car too. It can easily be upgraded tremendously, and repaired cheaply. Plus the T56's parts availability, there are 10x's as many T56's and lots of parts makers, aftermarket and OEM. 10 years from now this will still be ture. Where will you buy tans parts for your stock 5 spd. 10 years from now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4cylFury Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Chad, You can put me down on your list. I been waiting for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdodge01 Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 I'd say go ahead and put me down for the 600 dollar adapter kit as well... my transmission sounded like it was dying before the motor went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artinist Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 wow. nice project. i will most likely be interested in the near future but at this time I am a little short on cash. as for the tranny. the corvettes have completely different trannies. but I have seen the the ones from the camaros go for about $300 at the local junk yards. the ones from the viper are rated for even higher torque but i doubt anyone will be able to put a dent in any camaro T56. those things are smooth and bullet proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcon88 Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Could we use the autos out of the 93-97 camaro LT-1s??? Make a special adapter for the TQ converter?? How much TQ/HP can those transmission take?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felginator Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Will the clutch and driveline GP's be available at a later date? Just curious since I won't be able to afford all 3 at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YELLOWHELL Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 I'm interested down the road. I'll be needing something like this next spring maybe around april. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smog Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Hey chad, if you wantm you can email the pictures to me, and I can host them on my webserver so everyone can see them, without having to deal with geocities bandwidth limit, that can get set off very quickly, like it is right now  :-/ Oh yean, my email address is smogshaun@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89tsi20g Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 damn!! ;D, been away for a while and look what's lurking our way , i'm in , what about speedometer hook-up? Rob NJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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