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Stock cam vs schneider 292 vs "Rock the Banshee"


chiplee
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A while back I promised a dyno sheet comparing the stock cam I made 298hp/380ftlbs on and the schneider 292. I put the 292 in today and broke it in and I'll get it to the dyno tomorrow if all goes well. I think it's going to do ok. 12psi feels almost like 20 felt before and it comes on alot faster down low for some reason. I expected the stocker to be more torquey but we'll see. I hope it's worth at least 2hp to finally get my silly a$$ into the 300whp club, lol. After that I plan to get Tim C's roller in there and make another trip to the dyno so we can compare all three on one set up where nothing changes but the cam. back soon. Edited by chiplee
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This will be great info chip. I didn't want to get rid of my low end power but let me know how you like it. If you can tell your losing some low end? I've got a 272 now.

 

dude so far the bottom end feels better for some reason. I really didn't expect that. We'll see what the dyno says but it feels sooo much healthier over the whole RPM band that even if I do lose a bit of low end I don't think I'll miss it. I swear 12psi feels like 18 on the stock cam and 18 feels amazing. Has to be over 400ft/lbs to the wheels.. It pulls smoother, sounds clearer, and just pulls hard now. With the stocker in there it just felt like it couldn't breath. I can't explain it. The dyno showed 380tq at the wheels at 18psi but it just didn't feel right. I couldn't get to the dyno today.

 

As far as this being good info, the cam will be the only hardware variable but obviously I'll have to re-tune the HAWK for the bigger cam. I had an old map saved from before when I ran the 292 and I just uploaded it before I even started the car after the 292 got swapped back in. It takes a WHOLE lot less fuel to feed the engine with the big cam since the valves are open so much longer. I think it's a little lean right now though. This winter I'll get the aluminum driveshaft installed and the 3.90 rear gears and rebuilt torque tube. After all that and the water/meth injection is bolted up it should do ok. I also have to get around to installing those big brakes.

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I see you've talked about cams 292, and 272. But what are the acual specs? and where does one aquire them???

:?:

 

They are talking duration. Some cams are split duration also. I'm running a 274H TEP cam. I noticed some torque loss when I put it in on the TB setup, versus the stock cam. But up top had more power for sure.

There are many places to get some cams and specs. The quickiest and easiest is here.

http://www.schneidercams.com/Camshafts.htm

Look under Mitsubishi.

I believe *DM has his own grind. Also Tim C has his own grind. There were a few others here and there with some grinds, but I don't think they uare around anymore.

Here are the specs on my cam. I believe the TEP cam is really a Schniedler cam.

274h (Hydrolic) intake and exhaust duration

Duration at 0.050 intake and exhaust 220

Intake and exhaust lift .434

Lobe separation 114

 

Shawn

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The 292 schnieder cam is what I pulled 360whp with a small T4, chip I would be suprised if you don't gain at least 50hp but it will be at the loss of a little torque but it should pull to 7500 easy :D
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Ok, just got back from the dyno and so far it seems like the 292 is worth about 30hp and almost no loss in torque. I'll get the graphs up as soon as they email them to me here but my best pull was 321HP/370tq @20psi on the 292 with the SAE correction factor selected. The stocker made 298/380 with the standard correction factor selected. I don't have the digital graphs back from the shop yet but just making a correction myself to account for the SAE/STD difference I come up with a 9.68hp difference. Which puts my results today at 330hp/379tq. For some reason the schneider gave me over 30hp and didn't take a bit of torque. There's alot of error here though. the fact is that the fuel maps have to be changed significantly to account for the extra time the valves are open is a big deal. My engine seems to really love to run lean. I'll take 30hp in exchange for 1ft/lbs of torque any day though. I'll get the roller cam from Tim in there and go back as soon as I can and we should have a good feel for what the three cams are changing.
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Ok, here's a look at the graph from the stock cam. The biggest difference I'm noticing so far isn't really a huge jump in peak numbers from stock to 292 but a much broader band. Wait 'til you see these graphs from today. It's still making 300whp at 5700 rpm

 

http://webpages.charter.net/chiplee/Graph%204.jpg

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The 292 schnieder cam is what I pulled 360whp with a small T4, chip I would be suprised if you don't gain at least 50hp but it will be at the loss of a little torque but it should pull to 7500 easy :D

 

I can't tune like you guys so I don't spin it to 7500 man. It's just not that important to me. not worth the risk. This car is a f'ing blast around town at 20psi and I'd really like it to stay together for a while this time.

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I <3 Chiplee. What is your valvetrain set up? Just cam and springs?

 

? 292 ? / schneider HD springs / mech rockers

 

I have a set of schneider dual coil springs that I intend to put in when the roller cam goes in. I'm trying to decide whether I should pull the head to do the roller cam install.

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well they never sent me the files but here's a look at the pull with the SAE correction factor applied. Again, to get an accurate comparison, I'll have to either make, hey wait, I have the old graph files. I'll just make them SAE and post them up for comparison. I'm a genius.

 

I see it as 33.6HP gain for about a 2 ft/lb torque loss. Not too shabby. I bet this cam degreed would yield even more HP gain but actually start to lose some torque but I'm pretty happy with it where it is.

 

the other thing I notice is that this cam is bringing torque on about 200RPM sooner and keeping it on about 500rpm longer, which probably explains why the car "feels" so much faster. It basically broadened the power band by 700 RPM. on the stock cam torque is above 300ft/lbs from 3400rpm to 5000rpm. with the 292 it's above 300 from 3300rpm to 5500 or even 5600 it looks like on one pull.

 

Here's the new one with the 292

 

http://webpages.charter.net/chiplee/300a.JPG

 

and the old one with the same SAE correction and 5 smoothing like we used today. Compare away

 

http://webpages.charter.net/chiplee/stock%20cam.JPG

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I think I see why it feels like I get such a shot in the pants from this thing too. Look how fast it goes from 200ft/lbs at the wheels to 350+

 

it's about a 600rpm span between 2900rpm and 3500rpm the torque jumps 150ft/lbs as the turbo is reaching full boost. I want to go look at some other graphs to compare. Drilling around town in 2nd or 3rd at 3000 rpm the turbo is on tap for immediate power

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Drilling around town in 2nd or 3rd at 3000 rpm the turbo is on tap for immediate power

 

That's what I tell people that are afraid or larger turbos when they are used to 12A spool times. You just adjust your driving habits.

 

The added RPM to spool is worth it for the added kick,and if you're lugging arround at 2000, there's alwasy a down-shift :wink: .

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That is not as much as I expected but still shows how much a cam can do for you! I will note that My schnieder 292 was off 2 to 3 deg and I had to use an adjustable cam gear to set up correctly, I don't think you will net another 20hp but I would be suprised with a few adjustments if you couldn't find another 10 anyway...

 

I can't tune like you guys so I don't spin it to 7500 man. It's just not that important to me. not worth the risk. This car is a f'ing blast around town at 20psi and I'd really like it to stay together for a while this time.

I know what you mean longevity means alot! my car is in pieces from the last full power run :lol: so keep it together!

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