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F: 17x10 - R: 17x12 advice from the pros


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Looking for help from those of you who have already traveled the aggressive fittment path.

 

So my goal is to get crazy fittment on a budget. I've got a kid and a single income so I can't call up CCW or HRE and order a set of $3,500 baller wheels.

 

Instead I've been looking at old school steelies and found a few manufacturers that make wheels in our bolt pattern in the general sizes I'm looking for. Mainly 17x12 in the rear and 17x10 in the front (though I'm willing to go narrower in the front to clear steering)

 

I think I've got the math for the offset and the backspace for the rears sorted. If I get a 17x12 wheel I need a -38 offset in order to clear the strut, correct? I would like to run stretched rubber so I feel like a 265/40/17 or a 275/40/17 would be the correct tire?

 

I'd like to avoid spacers. But I'm guessing I'll need some hubcentric rings to make sure everything jives. Does anyone know what the hub bore is on our car? Is it the same front and rear? Honestly alot of old school steel wheels don't even look like they come with a hub-bore. Is this something I need to consider?

 

Pretty much just looking for some reality checking from you guys. Is this configuration possible, what things am I not thinking about, etc...

 

I also went and plugged in all the metrics in to the groovy wheel calculator and it seems plausible:

http://www.willtheyf...8&Submit=Submit

 

Thanks guys!

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For reference my rears are 17x11.5 -33 It will be very difficult to get 12's @ -38 under the fenders depending on camber, roll etc. You should be fine with a 275, it will be a bit of a stretch on a 12, but thats what I run usually. 265s would be REALLY tough. I'll check tomorrow how much room is left between the strut and rim. I'm not sure on the hub bore, will also check that tomorrow, but they are the same front and rear, and you will need some sort of ring to help center them. Fronts on my car are 9.5 wide I believe +11... need to double check, but 10s should work, they will limit your steering angle though.
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Wheel pros (the conglomerate that bought American Racing and Motegi) does custom offsets on their wheels for fairly cheap. I was quoted ~$1200 for 4 wheels in 17's and roughly those sizes. I would imagine you could do it, especially if you're on D2's
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I know your talking 17's, but here's how the 18x12's I basically traded my Sparcos for fit, with only a -13 offset (wheel is +20, with a 33mm spacer)

 

that's only about 1/4" to my strut, more importantly, the threaded sleeve on my MR2 setup

 

547084_522760358322_100439602_n.jpg

 

At -2° of camber, it pokes about 1", a little camber, I think the 295/30r18 tire I want to run will fit under the fender

 

64279_522760188662_1192299863_n.jpg

548515_522760168702_1552024478_n.jpg

61500_522760398242_918476663_n.jpg

540721_522760218602_2135695966_n.jpg

 

 

so even with a 17, you may not need -38 to clear the strut

 

-Derek

Edited by D_Venable
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Thanks for the responses guys!

 

I should probably explain a bit more about what I'm trying to achieve. I don't care about performance or driveability. I have the car slammed on D2's and my bump steer is outta control so I figureI'm just gonna embrace the madness and take it all the way. I'm thinking about going 12" wide so that I have definite poke and run very stretched rubber along with maximum negative camber to help clear the fender. I do plan on rolling the lips, but I don't want to pull because that just looks horrible on our cars. So that being said...

 

Convette: Thanks for weighing in on my setup. I appreciate your opinion and the tech info! I am concerned about the lack of a hubcentric mounting that some of these old steelies seem to have. I'll need to look in to that a bit more.

 

tankbob: Thanks for supplying the hub bore spec! much appreciated my friend!

 

Viper 1355: thanks for the link I'll check them out.

 

D_Venable: Thanks for weighing in here! I did see those pimp Rotas on your FB page. Honestly I'm very tempted to get a set myself, but I don't want to grip your style :-) I'm trying to see if I can get the vintage steelie thing to work with a 17 for a bit more meat in the sidewall for that vintage road-race look... but in the end I'm starting to suspect that I might need a more modern wheel with a hubcentric bore. Thanks for the offset info and your thoughts about clearing the strut. Don't hate me if I end up with a set of those Rotas as well... but I'd like to try to get the steel wheel thing to work first. Something about using old NASCAR wheels seems very, "Mad Max" to me and I think it would suit the car.

 

For some visual reference, I really like the amount of stretch and poke going on with this car. If I could replicate this vibe on the Starion without spacers... that would be epic.

If you guys have your own thoughts about how to achieve this setup or even ideas for wheels, feel free to let me know. I'm open to suggestions about how to get to the finished product. But the time has come and the car must be stanced for this summer season. I can feel it in my bones.

http://scrapedcrusaders.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/5048676621_317cbe7eef_b1.jpg

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Not a fan of that stretch and poke and the word "stance" lol... but I haven't seen it executed well on a Starion, so maybe yours can change my mind.

 

With a 17x12, you can go as high offset as a -15 for clearance of the strut by my calculations offhand. But with tires/wheels that wide it's going to have goofy looking camber, no matter the offset. Looks cool sitting still, but just the opposite following it on the road. With the right choices in parts you can have the looks, performance, and driveability... don't give up before giving it a shot LOL. Some 17x11's in the rear at -5 or 0 offset would poke the wheel lip just barely past the fender edge when the camber plates are maxed out for as little camber as possible. A 275 tire would give that slightly stretched look, and just barely fit into a rolled fender lip.

 

As far as your bump steer issues, have you got an alignment since you lowered the car?? If so, what did you have the camber set at?? If you still have issues after an alignment, you should look into an RCA (Roll center adjuster), to bring your control arms back to better geometry. I have a set that will fit 7" fronts (wanted the ability just in case I needed to throw a spare on), and they're not as thick as the latest production runs. I'm lower than D2's will allow, and I don't have bump steer issues, though my front camber isn't out of control.

 

-Robert

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I say go for it. So long as the car is still drive-able I think it will look good. What style steel wheels are you looking at?

I'm not going to be very low since I'm on stock height struts with Artinists sleeve overs, but, I like how these look on my car. Basset 5 hole 15x8 -25

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu41/Dred_85-5_tsi/84%20Starion%20ES%20project/DSC01398_zpsb05511b4.jpg

Edited by Dred_85.5_TSI
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Komeuppance: Hehehe, I think I understand. Maybe that car wasn't the best example. I'm a huge fan of the "Rocket Bunny" cars out of Japan. They have a tough and dirty road-race look to them so I'm trying to chase that look. I'm not opposed to running an 11" wheel. But I do want the obnoxious wide stance. I will consider your suggested setup. I won't rule anything out :) Regarding the bump-steer, I thought nobody made RCA's for our cars? Did you repurpose them from a different car?

 

Convette: That's an amazing and generous offer. I'll try my best to find an off-the-shelf ring. If I go with a newer wheel I'll probably be ok, but if I end up stuck I'll be sure to let you know. Again, much thanks!

 

Dred: I love the Basset wheels. I just couldn't find them in the right size. In fact that's been the biggest problem. There's no shortage of cheap steel wheels out there, but to find them in the right width 11 or 12"+ they all come in 15" diameter. And rarely do steel wheels go above 16" diameter. This whole process has been a total frustration.

 

last night I discovered steel off-road truck wheels (non-bead lock) I even found some that come in 17x12 with our bolt pattern... but again, I'm not sure that the hub-bore is compatible with our cars? Has anyone had luck mounting a truck wheel on a Starquest? I know I've seen a few drift cars out there mount off-road steel truck wheels by Mickey Thompson.

Example: (Yes this is a truck wheel) But again... widest size is 10" I think. Boooo.

http://www.speedhunters.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/IMG_0374.jpg

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My RCA's were made by MK1 years ago in a small run. There's a new run made by T3, Techno toy Tuning, which are thicker.

 

Wheels can be machined for a larger hub bore, but truck wheels are usually larger bore already. Centering rings would be the way to go in that case.

 

-Robert

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Conquestador89: Thanks man! I tried to check them out but their website seems to be offline. I'll keep trying, maybe it's down for maintenance.

 

Komeuppance: Thanks for the info! I didn't know that a new production run had been started for RCA's I'll look in to them. I'll probably get the wheel / tire paring sorted out first. Mount it, adjust the ride height, align it... and then see where I'm at.

 

Dred: Thanks for pointing that out. Is this anything I should be concerned about? Going from hub-centric to lug-centric configuration?

 

In my continued scouring of the internet I have turned up these guys:

http://www.rockcrawl...R CUSTOM WHEELS

 

They make this particular wheel in our bolt pattern in 17x12:

http://www.rockcrawler-mrt.com/productimages/OFFROAD%20bright%20.jpg

 

The only thing they don't have listed is the offset or backspace for this wheel. So I'm going to call them up today and find out what the ET range is. I'll be sure to post back with that info for anyone else who is interested... But again... as Dred pointed out... this looks lug-centric and not hub-centric. Not sure if this is a good idea?

 

Does anyone know of anybody who has ever run a lug-centric wheel and had a stud break due to shear-stress?

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lug centric means that you balance the wheel and tire on the lugs not the center bore. I''m not sure if it will be an issue breaking lugs since the lateral load and the acceleration load is carried by the lugs anyway.
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Convette: I think you're probably right. I'm not going to be doing anything with the car. Hooning around a bit, hard parking at meets and lazy highway cruising. No track time or competition.

 

Dred: thanks for bringing that up. Those are great points and I agree with both you guys that I probably don't need to worry about a lug-centric mounting. Especially if I'm not doing any competition driving.

 

OK. So another update!

I called MRW Racing and asked them about their off-road steelies. offset, custom specs, etc...

 

GREAT NEWS!

I think these guys may be a fantastic find for us Starquesters looking for custom made wheels on a budget. The wheels In the image I posted above DO come in 5x4.5 bolt pattern. They come in a wide range of sizes from 17x8 to 17x20!!!!! Offset is %100 custom made to order. They do not have any wheels in stock. They make everything on demand. They're basically punching out steel faces and then welding them in to barrels on the spot. So you can get whatever you want. It takes a week to fill the order and the wheels are approx $200 a pop (give or take depending on size) you can get silver or black paint (not powder coat) with or without pinstripe.

 

And yes, confirmed they are all lug-centric mount.

 

I'm gonna pull the wheels off the Starquest tonight and double check my measurements to the best of my ability... but I'm thinking:

 

Rear: 17x12 -20et

with a 275 / 40 / 17

 

Front: 17x10 -10et

with a 255 / 40 / 17

 

No spacers.

Fender lip roll

I'm already running (at least) -3 degrees camber. I have my D2's dialed down as low as I can go without tearing off my exhaust. I figure with the pull on the rubber and the aggressive camber this should be doable?

 

Does this sound right to everyone? I'm itching to pull the trigger! :D

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I would double check the fronts before you order. Like I said my fronts are +11 on 9.5's and they poke. You might want to be a little closer to 0 on that. Rears should be fine. DO it! I might pick up a set of these too for some rear drift spares!
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Komeuppance: Thanks for the reminder on the lugs!

 

Convette: Thanks for the advice on the front offset. You're right, 0 sounds like the correct fitment up front.

 

The end of my week has been a bit crazy so I have had no time in the evenings to pull the wheels off and do a final check and measure. I'll do that over the weekend and then I'd like to place my order on Monday with MRW Racing. I'll be sure to keep this thread updated so we can figure out if these guys end up being reputable custom wheel suppliers for us!

 

Thanks again for all the advice guys!

If anyone has any final thoughts please post up. If everything looks good on paper I'm gonna pull the trigger on this :-)

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ORDERED! :D

 

As stated above:

17x10 / 0 et

17x12 / -20 et

 

The conversation was slightly hilarious, the guy on the phone was like, "Did you say negative 20? This is 17x12?...", "Yessir!", "What exactly is this going on?"...

 

BECAUSE STARION!

 

lulz.

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Nice!!

 

 

http://home.comcast.net/~Komeuppance/HdrRain2.jpg

This is a 225/50 8" -10 with camber plates set maxed out for as little camber as possible. If you compare the specs with 255/40 10" +0, the top of your tire will be the same as mine in the pic. -10 offset might have been better with what you were planning for Oni-camber. But +0 could be better because you can always add a spacer to dial it in perfect to just the way you want.

 

-Robert

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Hmmm. this is a really good point. I ran this through the "will it fit" calculator and the general composition does look better. Do you think the amount of poke would be consistent front and rear if I ran -10 up front?

 

I think Convette's suggestion to run 0 is spot-on if I'm looking for flush-fitment, but I want poke. I'm totally fine with up to an inch of it (more as long as I can clear the fender with camber and pulled rubber.

 

I could run a spacer up front... I'd prefer to avoid spacers. I may call MRW back and update my order.

 

I am looking for the full "Shakotan" style fitment :-)

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16x9, combined -15mm offset (15mm spacer) and about 4° of neg camber and a 225/45r16 tire

 

295158_517527385242_1653206630_n.jpg

 

I'd recommend you jump to a 0mm offset, and run a 245/40r17 tire, won't be much stretch with a 255/40 on a 10, plus the 255/40 is a hair taller than stock, so you wouldn't be able to go quite as low.

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