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87 Knockbox to GM HEI


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#1 SA22C

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 03:38 PM

I know this has been asked before and answered a bunch of times and I apologize in advance.

I have the FSM for a 1988 and my car is an 87. I have read and searched for a way to wire the GM module and I keep shying away from doing this because of the differences between the model years wiring.

The 88 FSM shows the following wiring:

VR+  =  White
VR-   = Black


I would then need a switched 12V source (obtained from + on coil) and of course the - (negative)  from the coil (light blue/white)



A GM HEI Module has the following pins:    

W    =  VR+
G     =  Vr-


B     =  Switched 12V
C     =  Negative from coil (Tach Signal)



Am I on the right track here? Maybe IO should buy an 87 FSM.   :lol:





#2 SA22C

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 04:14 PM

I forgot to mention that in this thread http://www.starquest...howtopic=146193 the wiring he's got going to the module is not at all what the FSM says it should be.

Edited by SA22C, 31 May 2018 - 04:16 PM.


#3 jinx

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 12:40 AM

isn't the car in that thread a 88 ?
from the 4pin HEI photo, the wiring at the connector is different color vs oem

as often as folks seek knock boxes, I'd think there would be a detailed clear HEI writeup. Why not???
in this post I think Scott says the Caravan module CR 125 is needed.... ?
http://www.starquest...8

#4 speedyquest

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 07:36 AM

From what I understand and while I was bored on a train ride one day I made this drawing using the Starion FSM wiring diagrams and the information for the hei part.

Posted Image

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


Posted Image


Build Thread --->  http://www.starquest...opic=143564&hl=


#5 speedyquest

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 07:38 AM

I can write that out more fully if its confusing. lol

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


Posted Image


Build Thread --->  http://www.starquest...opic=143564&hl=


#6 SA22C

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 09:25 AM

View Postjinx, on 01 June 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

isn't the car in that thread a 88 ?
from the 4pin HEI photo, the wiring at the connector is different color vs oem

as often as folks seek knock boxes, I'd think there would be a detailed clear HEI writeup. Why not???
in this post I think Scott says the Caravan module CR 125 is needed.... ?
http://www.starquest...8

Caravan module mod is to run an MSD system with the properly converted signal to the MSD box

View Postspeedyquest, on 01 June 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

I can write that out more fully if its confusing. lol

I just dont understand the difference in colors from the photo and the FSM.  Im double checking my deciphering and theory with people that have done it and made it work.

TL;DR
Yea. Show me exactly what you did.

#7 jinx

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 03:28 AM

ok, I c the Caravan module bit..... then connecting really 'look' that simple then
Reluctor wires from distributor signal 4 pin, to fire coil via negative pulse

want more confusion ? The 88 wiring is exactly as the Bosch module conversion for JA 2.0 starions
Posted Image
http://www.austarion...eConversion.pdf
4 pin terminals=    W : white (VR+)    G : yellow (VR-) B : Red (switched 12V+)    C : Blue/white (coil -ve)
that FAQ state the diagram only applicable to JA (the very first) starions tho. Wierd..... hmmm, why? different distributor pickup?
.....and oddly, my 83 starion oem had the gold knock box, and not the common 84-87 black plastic ones

So yeah, would be nice to have 87 and 88 wiring confirmed

#8 SA22C

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:31 AM

View Postspeedyquest, on 01 June 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

I can write that out more fully if its confusing. lol

Well?!

#9 speedyquest

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

The wiring color's came from the 88 FSM not my car, I don't have a setup like this at all.

C --> Blue w/ White strip from coil
B --> Black w/ White strip from coil
G --> Black wire from distributor
W --> White wire from distributor

I've never had this run on a car but I based my wiring etc off of what scott87star has confirmed in other places on the forum, the FSM, and the wiring diagram for the HEI module.

Edited by speedyquest, 04 June 2018 - 09:39 AM.

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


Posted Image


Build Thread --->  http://www.starquest...opic=143564&hl=


#10 SA22C

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 11:25 AM

View Postspeedyquest, on 04 June 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

The wiring color's came from the 88 FSM not my car, I don't have a setup like this at all.

C --> Blue w/ White strip from coil
B --> Black w/ White strip from coil
G --> Black wire from distributor
W --> White wire from distributor

I've never had this run on a car but I based my wiring etc off of what scott87star has confirmed in other places on the forum, the FSM, and the wiring diagram for the HEI module.

I was just messing what you man! Its just weird that a lot of people have done this but there is no confirmation on wire color for 87s

#11 speedyquest

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 12:17 PM

I think the idea that lots of people have done it is a misconception actually. You'd be hard pressed to find even 5 people who have done this to their car I'd think. Really though, I don't think there should be a difference between 87 and 88 wiring for any of those four wires you'd use. I don't know this for a fact but my car being an 87 had those color wires on its coil and the distributor wires should be easy to figure out IF they are different.

EDIT: And don't worry, I've got a thick skin and can take some shade LOL.

Edited by speedyquest, 04 June 2018 - 12:17 PM.

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


Posted Image


Build Thread --->  http://www.starquest...opic=143564&hl=


#12 jinx

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 08:03 PM

4 pin HEI module with stock ecu is not common at all.... unless they kept quiet about it
From I saw the mod mentioned on austarion years ago, I asked here a couple times. Nothing

Has to b a reason why only JA starion distributor puts out the proper signal, while the mod has proven NOT to work on the others
Oz staz guru says he has distributors with five different setup & connectors, ALL removed from starions.
Mitsu got somethin going on there. I have 3 different US starion distributor types (around here somewhere)

A techie with a scope (like Scott), and distributors in had.... could sort this in a minute, I'd bet

On the other hand, starquest ecu & ignition system proven hella reliable.
It's been posted on SQC & Austarion, that cold solder joints disable the stock black plastic knock box. Not component failure
The surgery required to open it is a royal? pita

#13 SA22C

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 08:51 PM

I fixed my original black knockbox. I have an 89 knockbox. I have an hei module.  I just want to try the hei module for a few different reasons. The smaller hei module is easier to hide and has no knock control. There's a thread somewhere that StarquestRescue mentions something about him being absolutely certain that the knockbox pulls timing due to false knock.

The fact that I can get an hei module at Walmart is another benefit to doing this... Haha

Edited by SA22C, 04 June 2018 - 08:52 PM.


#14 speedyquest

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:04 PM

I will point out that about a year ago I made a how to on disabling the knock control while keeping everything else. But that's dangerous if you don't know the consequences.

Edited by speedyquest, 04 June 2018 - 09:05 PM.

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


Posted Image


Build Thread --->  http://www.starquest...opic=143564&hl=


#15 jinx

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 09:31 PM

same reasons I favour the HEI as well. I'm thinkin u can get that white-hot HEI spark too, with a GM coil

Austarion says the stock staz coil is 'special' tho, and already fires a white bolt
in one of the threads linked above, both Staquestrescue and Scott comment on false knock from the stock system

old rwd corollas also used the 4 pin to replace the expensive stock igniter

#16 SA22C

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 11:02 PM

View Postspeedyquest, on 04 June 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

I will point out that about a year ago I made a how to on disabling the knock control while keeping everything else. But that's dangerous if you don't know the consequences.
I'd be interested in reading this. Do you have a thread about it?

#17 SA22C

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 11:04 PM

View Postjinx, on 04 June 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

same reasons I favour the HEI as well. I'm thinkin u can get that white-hot HEI spark too, with a GM coil

Austarion says the stock staz coil is 'special' tho, and already fires a white bolt
in one of the threads linked above, both Staquestrescue and Scott comment on false knock from the stock system

old rwd corollas also used the 4 pin to replace the expensive stock igniter

Scott is the one that seems to be very well versed in this topic. I'm hoping he chimes in with a "how to for dummies"

#18 speedyquest

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 07:12 AM

Here ya go!

http://www.starquest...howtopic=151366

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


Posted Image


Build Thread --->  http://www.starquest...opic=143564&hl=


#19 SA22C

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 09:20 AM

View Postspeedyquest, on 05 June 2018 - 07:12 AM, said:

Thanks Speedy.



Scott?!

#20 scott87star

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Posted 08 June 2018 - 09:17 AM

Yes?  I'm not sure what you want, Speedy covered everything you need to know.  I have done this to at least two cars, FIP did it this way at first, then switched to using the caravan module, they literally bolted the 4 pin module to the fender liner and just ran the wires to that.

I think the confusion on wire color comes from using the 88-89 knock boxes, there are a few color differences from one side of the connector to the other whereas the 87 and earlier knock boxes have no wires on the knock box side.  So for an 87 and earlier you would cut the connector off the wire loom and look for the wires you need.  The white and black from the distributor are VR+, - and are bundled together with a shield (braided outer metal), you may have to unwrap the harness a bit to see everything.  The single white wire with shield is the knock sensor in, you don't need that.  There will be a single black wire that goes to sensor ground, you don't need that.  The red wire is switched 12 volts, you need that.  The yellow wire/black stripe and brown wires are not needed which just leaves the blue wire/white stripe that goes to the negative terminal of the coil.  Also note that if you unwrap the harness a bit that blue wire/white stripe is "t"'d with a white wire, you need to leave that there as the white wire supplies rpm input to the ECU.  For an 88-89 the wire colors coming to the knock box plug that you need are the same, just be aware that if you set up the 4 pin inside the box like the pictures above you need to folllow the wires through the plug to see if they change color.
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