Some Metal in Oil

[Killtodie]

I changed my oil last night and found swirls of metallic stuffs. Nothing big, just sparkly.

 

I'm thinking of doing an oil analysis. They should be able to tell me the type of metal that's in the oil, be it zinc, chrome or other type of metals.

 

Last I looked under the valve cover I noticed some light scoring on the cam shaft, nothing major.

 

 

 

 

Car runs fine, I can feel an improvement on the new oil. I'm thinking of sending an oil sample to blastone labs for an analysis, spoke to them, they can identify the type of metals present. $25 for a test kit.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Killtodie

[wrngwae]

Man,,,,,,,,, some of us at the meet at my house were telling you there was a knock. you said it was due to the mechanical rockers but. im telling you,,,,, there is a knock......of some kind. do you still have your balance shafts in that motor? Edited May 21, 2012 by wrngwae

[Killtodie]

balance shaft yes, its been knocking like that since I had that engine 2 years ago. First time I found some metal residue. I need to adjust the balance chain, its making a lot of noise. Can it be the chain?

[dadrab]

If it's the chain, it's getting an awful lot of wear from somewhere.

 

Metal slivers in the oil pan mean slivers elsewhere too. I hate to be the messenger...

[Killtodie]

bad news bears. i'll look under the cover when I get home and see if I can adjust the timing chain, hopefully i can get to it without taking the fans out.

 

Update:

 

I looked at my dipstick, took it in an out a few times before and after running the car and found some small, black plastic fragments on it. Its soft, non-megnatic and feels like plastic. I assume its the chain guides. I had chap slap for a while and been too lazy to adjust the balance chain. Not sure how to get to that port without taking belts off or removing a fan, not a lot of room there. But I'll try to get to it tonight. I'll also post picture of the fragments and the metallic swirls in the oil.

 

Otherwise, car runs much better with the new oil, I cant hear that "rod knock" that a few members pointed out, all I hear is the mechanical clatter of the valves. I'm very positive that the rod knock others have pointed out is the chain slap, I heard it in other cars, people assumed it was rod knock, adjusted the chain and it went away.

 

There are no metal shavings in the oil, just swirls. Very fine, like a used oil from a wet clutch engine.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Killtodie

[Killtodie]

Here are some pics

 

http://i.imgur.com/Mvw5V.jpg

This is stuff I found on the dip stick after taking it in an out a few times, pretty sure its just plastic from the chain guides.

http://i.imgur.com/i3s3j.jpg

Here is the oil taken with a flash.

[JohnnyWadd]

BSEK is needed with the new guides. Its the aluminum under the black plastic. The guides are getiing eaten by the chain

[Skullzaflare]

BSEK is needed with the new guides. Its the aluminum under the black plastic. The guides are getiing eaten by the chain

hopefully

bad part is, now we already know those "shinys" marked the cam, how do you think the soft metal of the rod/crank bearings look? you know theres metal embedded in them sanding on the journals now.

 

that oil looks like how mine did after i egged every crank bearing in my block

[Killtodie]

How much would an oil flush and a new filter remove? Will those magnetic tip drain plugs help at all?

 

Also, my old engine had a delete kit, can I reuse it? I recall the guides where in good condition.

Is there a part list of the kit so I know what to dig for? I have all the guide and chains stored in ziplock bags.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Killtodie

[wrngwae]

nothing is going to clean out the metal already stuck to the cam and crank. yes you can re use a BSEK.... and a magnetic drain plug does nothing for aluminum.... since i know you wont tear into this too much. cross your fingers and put your old BSEK in it,,,,,, and the chain slack slider,,,, im thinking that is where you rubber is coming from.... but if you feel so motivated,,,,,,, you could pull your cam and inspect the towers,,,,,,,, drop the oil pan and one at a time pull and reinstall your connecting rod caps with the mains too..... it wont take but a few hrs..... i might even think,,,,,,if you are lucky..... i would throw in some fresh bearings from the bottom while i was there,,,,,,,, since i know you wont pull that motor yet.... Edited May 22, 2012 by wrngwae

[Killtodie]

What's aluminum? chain guides?

 

I'll look for the delete off my old engine and try to figure out what it comes with. dad's has like 4 different versions of the kit. i'm assuming at minimum its a new chain, a plug and two new guides right?

Edited May 22, 2012 by Killtodie

[JohnnyWadd]

What's aluminum? chain guides?

 

 

Yes as previously stated.

 

BSEK is needed with the new guides. Its the aluminum under the black plastic. The guides are getiing eaten by the chain

 

The main parts are the short chain, the upper shaft plug and the lower shaft plug.

 

here is a good link to help with the mental picture of it...

http://b2600turbo.com/Oil%20Pumps.htm

Edited May 22, 2012 by JohnnyWadd

[Killtodie]

Help me understand the install procedure, I just change the chain and the guides and install the plugs. I dont need to remove the oil pump or anything else, and then just replace w/e gaskets, oil pan, pump cover, water pump, etc. Which are all standard gaskets, correct?

 

Is there anyother guide somewhere? the pictures on SOS are down.

actually, I cant tell, at work, most image hosting sites are blocked. i'll look when I get home.

ok, im being told that most pics work, i'll review it when I get home.

 

 

alright, got home, lots of pics not loading on that site. sigh

 

 

But looking at some pics, it looks like the main pulley needs to come out, (but I should have known that cause the cover needs to come off) and the small chain of the oil pump.

 

what else?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Killtodie

[Killtodie]

alright, update.

 

I took a look at my BSEK from my old engine, the guides are worn, some chipping. No good, I would need a new kit.

Before I do anything else, I will get my oil tested for metals.

 

Questions:

Can it be installed with the engine in the car? Sans radiator?

Also, how can I easily adjust the timing chain? That little port is hard to reach from any direction, I could not get a wrench around the second bolt, looks like I need to remove the belts, intake pipes and maybe a fan.

[Skullzaflare]

alright, update.

 

I took a look at my BSEK from my old engine, the guides are worn, some chipping. No good, I would need a new kit.

Before I do anything else, I will get my oil tested for metals.

 

Questions:

Can it be installed with the engine in the car? Sans radiator?

Also, how can I easily adjust the timing chain? That little port is hard to reach from any direction, I could not get a wrench around the second bolt, looks like I need to remove the belts, intake pipes and maybe a fan.

the way i understood it, if installing bsek in the car, you need to pull the radiator, and i think the condenser needs moved, pull all accessories off the front since you have to remove the timing cover and oil pan, you also of course need to pull the oil pump

timing chain doesnt adjust, the oil pump has a spring pushing it out

 

 

 

edit, also, i can clearly see the metal in the oil from a picture, not sure why you would want to pay someone to tell you "yep theres metal in there" unless you bought metal flake oil additive with dino oil (not trying to be a smartass, trying to add a bit of humor)

Edited May 23, 2012 by Skullzaflare

[Killtodie]

I wanna know if its just aluminum or copper.

[Skullzaflare]

I wanna know if its just aluminum or copper.

timing chain itself, the guides are steel with plastic molding

if you do have BS, you have 1 small aluminum with plastic, and if memory serves, 1 longer steel with plastic (that runs longer up)

 

i see what your getting at, but would it not be easier/faster/cheaper to pull a rod/main cap or two for inspection?

 

if you do a BSE, you have to pull the oil pump, 1 BS is behind the oil pump, the other on the driverside of the block

you want this one

"6 piece Balance shaft elimination kit with Lower chain guide, both gears, chain, plug for upper bal bore and oil pump plug- No Gaskets $39.95"

 

however, i would recommend going ahead and doing the timing as well, just because you are already in there

"Complete camshaft timing kit ,new cam and crank gear, cam chain, all guides,Tensioner, No gaskets, No balance shaft parts. $46.99 "

you would however, need both kits, at minimum the first kit

you will need a oil pump gasket/oring/waterpump gasket/timing cover gasket set/oil pan. recommend going ahead and doing the front main seal while you have the cover and pulley off, but not required unless it gets damaged while off

[hippynerd]

Like Skullz said... testing the oil is a waste of money and time. Flushing the the motor is your best solution to the problem.

 

The BSEK is pretty easy, I've done it a few times, and the first time I was scared, but I got over it. I havnt confirmed that those are the right kits, but I remember I had to order 2 kits to do it properly. There is no adjusting the timing chain, but the tensioner does have a rubber part that must go inside the spring inside the tensioner, without it the spring binds up, and the tensioner wont work right.

 

The best part is that you can forget about those stupid chains forever.

[Killtodie]

None of those kits list gaskets, are they standard gaskets kit I need to get elsewhere?

[JohnnyWadd]

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28099&st=0&p=242761&hl=balance&fromsearch=1&&do=findComment&comment=242761

 

and..

 

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27975&hl=balance&fromsearch=1

[Skullzaflare]

None of those kits list gaskets, are they standard gaskets kit I need to get elsewhere?

you can get the front main seal, waterpump, and timing cover set locally, but id recommend getting the oil pump gasket and oring from DAD, locals dont always have the right parts, and the last thing you wanna do is put a non turbo oil pump gasket on

[Killtodie]

Thanks for the info. I'll order this soon, do another oil flush in the meantime

[dadrab]

I'd also buy an Ajusa head gasket from him unless you're not planning to pull the head. Edited May 23, 2012 by dadrab

[Killtodie]

Ok, I spent a good hour looking at the FSM, rock auto and the BSEK.

 

I figures this out. I can get the chain guides from Rock Auto, the oil pump gasket from Dad. Reuse my old chain and plugs from the old engine, (Or buy a new set from Dad's its fairly cheap) Buy oil pan and cover gasket and I will have a complete kit.

 

Missing anything?

Edited May 28, 2012 by Killtodie

[TexasQuest]

I would just go ahead and get all new timing components just to be on the safe side.