superscan811 Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Had a go at reducing the weight of the crank along with knife edging it.Didn't go wild. Started with 40.5lb and finished with 37.5lb 45deg chamfer on the outer edge of the counterweights.http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/CRANK/Knife-edge-01.jpg Rounded the leading edge and chamfered the trailing edge of the counterweights.http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/CRANK/Knife-edge-02.jpg Evened up all the counterweights so they are now all the same size and shape and thinned down the side of the web between the mains and bigends.http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/CRANK/Knife-edge-03.jpg Evened up the thickness on the outer web of the of the bigends.http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/CRANK/Knife-edge-04.jpg It will be interesting to see how it balances up. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I feel like balancing that might be an issue. But i dont know anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Nice, keep us posted on the progress Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLATBROKE313 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Same as getting the crank knife edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I feel like balancing that might be an issue.I don't expect it to be a problem. I've tried not to remove too much weight, more like getting everything even. Some of the counterweights were up to 0.710" longer than the others. The thin webbing on the bigend varied by 0.157". I have also started to lightened the conrods (from 29.3ounces to 27.2ounces) and still have a bit more I can take off. The majority of that weight was from the balance pads on the bigend cap and pin end.Again, not trying to make a super light rod, just trimming the fat.Hoping all this work should make balancing it a bit easier. Same as getting the crank knife edgeClose, a knife edged crank typically don't have a 45deg chamfer on the bottom of the counterweights, just a rounded leading edge and a chamfered trailing edge. Nice, keep us posted on the progressThanks, I will. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg_43 Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I wish I still had the pics of my crank. I removed more material, and balancing was not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted February 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 The crank balanced up fine. Could have gone a bit lighter on the bigends but I'll leave that for the next one. Also had a go at porting and generally cleaning up the M7 magna head. BEFOREhttp://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/Head/chamber-00.jpg AFTERhttp://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/Head/chamber-01.jpg Removed all sharp edges, de-shrouded and blended around the valve seats and sparkplug, this should help reduce detonation due to hot-spots. Putting in 2mm oversize titanium valves with 7mm stems on the exhaust and 6mm on the inlets. Copper-Beryllium valve seats on the exhaust (to be put in) and just a larger standard inlet valve seat. The chambers also have to be cc'd but that will be done after the valves are installed. Blended/smoothed the port castings as well as reduce the webbing around the valve guides. New bronze valve guides to be installed after the inlets are nickel-Teflon coated and the exhaust guides are nickel-boron coated. Good heat transfer (you need it when using titanium valves) and great wearing properties. This is for a high compression normally aspirated engine, somewhere between 12.5:1 and 16:1, depending on how much chamfering the Wiseco pistons will handle. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2011 Just doing some more research and it seems that the diesel 4D56 crank may be a good compromise rather than chamfering the pistons too much. The 4D56 crank has the same size big ends and mains, they run the same size pistons 3.587" (91.1mm)but have a 3.740"(95mm) stroke. Grabbing one on Monday to make sure every thing else lines up. If it fits, it would be a good option instead of using a 0.060" (1.5mm) de-compression plate or double head gaskets, especially on a turbo engine. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2011 The 4D56 crank has the same size big ends and mains...Well I was wrong on this count. The big ends are the same but the mains are 2.598" (66mm), so I had them ground down to the standard 2.362" (60mm). http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/Hi-Comp_Engine/4D56.jpgI'll have to knife edge and lighten it a bit before it is balanced but it shouldn't take me too long now.Expect a few more pics. Apart from the mains being larger, the keyway for the timing chain cog is also a bit further away from the first mains but not enough to worry about. Also got hold of a Trochoid style oil pump off a 4G54 forklift.http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/Hi-Comp_Engine/OIL_PUMP.jpgThese spin at 71% of the engine speed (instead of double the engine speed) and have a much higher flow compared to the standard style oil pumps.You have to remove the silent shafts and buy the proper cog set to use this pump. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rabbit1 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 Also got hold of a Trochoid style oil pump off a 4G54 forklift.http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/Hi-Comp_Engine/OIL_PUMP.jpgThese spin at 71% of the engine speed (instead of double the engine speed) and have a much higher flow compared to the standard style oil pumps.You have to remove the silent shafts and buy the proper cog set to use this pump. Cheers.is compared to an N/A oil pump? because our pumps flow more than the N/A ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted March 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 is compared to an N/A oil pump? because our pumps flow more than the N/A ones.We actually have 2 different standard oil pumps for the N/A 2.6L engines.http://users.tpg.com.au/backman/SG/OPG.jpgThe one on the right was in the earlier (pre-1992) engines. The one on the left was used in the TS Magna engines.They flow 30% more than the earlier ones.The Trochoid style oil pump are supposed to flow even more than the TS Magna oil pumps.I'll trying to get exact specs on all the pumps. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 anymore info on the forklift pump? I am interested in what the driving impression is with the lightweight crank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg_43 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 To spin that pump slower, you are going to have to get a bigger cog, and a longer chain. Are those parts and the pump readily available over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg_43 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I am interested in what the driving impression is with the lightweight crank When I got mine, it was a clear difference of how the engine revved up. It was a pain to find a clutch that would hold the torque. Had to change it twice. Even now, if I nail it anywhere below 2500 rpm, it feels like the car is ready to take flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg_43 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Here is the post that I started when I did my crank. The pics were removed, because picturetrail closed that account, and I lost all my pics. http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43970&hl=knife-edge&st=140 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I think for high revving NA engines you want slower turning oil pumps. Well maybe any high revving one. (i mean over 7K+) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopDawg_43 Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 I somehow found a pic of my crank. I'll see if I can find the rest of them. http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL928/13207530/23874700/398225764.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) It has been a while but I decided to remove a bit more weight from my knife edged crank. Just as a comparison.. STANDARD CRANKhttp://users.tpg.com.au/ntome44/SG/Hi-Comp_Engine/STD_crank_01.jpg MK-1http://users.tpg.com.au/ntome44/SG/Hi-Comp_Engine/Knife_crank_01.jpg MK-2 (Work in progress)http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/CRANK/Crank-on-mill.jpgHad to cut a V-Block into 3 pieces to better support the crank. I also used old bearing shells so I didn't damage the crank. http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/CRANK/Crank-mod-002.JPG The finished product, just before leaving to be balanced. http://users.tpg.com.au/blackmas/SG/CRANK/Crank-Almost.JPG Work done so far..1. Reduced the diameter of the counterweights so they are the same diameter as the bigend.2. All the counterweights are now the same thickness.3. Machined the edges to make the shape uniform.4. Knife edged. Work to do.1. Nickel plate the journals2. Shot peen.3. Install and have some fun Cheers. Edited April 28, 2012 by superscan811 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Looking great Superscan!Why the nickel plating of the journals? Must have machined off the hardening I'm guessing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted April 28, 2012 Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Damn... big difference. How much does the new version weigh?? -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Why the nickel plating of the journals? Must have machined off the hardening I'm guessing?I'm nickel plating the journals for 3 reasons. 1. To build them back up as they are on the bottom end of standard.2. The nickel coat can be harder than hard-chrome, if heat treated correctly.3. Nickel is less prone to galling (ie: it's slipprier) than the standard cranks, and even nitrided cranks. Looking great Superscan!Thanks, a lot of time has been put into getting this crank to the stage it is currently. Cheers. Edited April 28, 2012 by superscan811 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted April 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2012 Damn... big difference. How much does the new version weigh??I'll weigh it when it comes back from being balanced, my guess would be around 33lb. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superscan811 Posted May 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 .... my guess would be around 33lb.Not a bad guess, it's 32.4lb Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker1989 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 So how'd it balance out? That's a lot of metal to take off the CW's. Are you running aluminum rods? I'm surprised you didn't try to lighten the rod throws much, I would think it would need help to even out all the metal taken off the CW's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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