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Is there a knock sensor that can be used on our cars other than factory ones


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#1 questtuner82

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 03:11 PM

Ok so im trying to find out if there are any knock sensors that can be used with our cars as a factory replacement for a stock computer setup still running oem dizzy and oem tbi.





#2 ucw458

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 04:05 PM

DSMs use the same sensor with a different plug.  If the OEM SQ sensor isn't available then try getting the DSM one.


You can't just plug another manufacturers sensor into a SQ.  The voltages are different.  A knock sensor is just a peizo element that produces a voltage based on the amount of vibration it's exposed to.  The higher the vibration the higher the voltage.  Knocking creates significantly higher vibration so you get more voltage.

ECUs are set to ignore a certain voltage threshold.  Lets say normal engine operation generates 1 volt and a knock will generate 1.5-2 volts.  The ECU will ignore any voltage around 1.2 volts or less.  Stock SQ knock sensors generate a maximum voltage of around 0.5 volts.  So if you substituted a knock sensor from a nissan SR20 motor, (very common sensor used on alot of cars and different motors) your stock SQ ECU will think it's hearing knock 100% of the time.  The SR20 sensor has a max output of around 2 volts with a nominal voltage on a running G54B of around 1 volt.


I know this because I use the SR20 sensor on my MPI.  The standalone allows me to set the voltage threshold.  The SR20 sensor is needed because the stock SQ sensor doesn't put out enough voltage for my standalone to detect.
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#3 mstieg

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 04:36 PM

I was just asking this exact question for my setup.  Which year SR20 sensor are you rolling with?  Any issues with false knock reporting?

Assume your balance shafts are gone?  Any other relevant factors?
Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
In Progress: breakin & tune
Future: Enjoy driving again; meets & local shows; AC; WG reroute from open vent to exh; Water/Meth?; body/paint

FOR SALE:  Rear Camber plates (basic); NIB beefy U-joints(2); etc.see-->  http://www.starquest...howtopic=133262 Custom 5 gauge overlay panel: http://www.starquest...pic=136703&st=0

#4 ucw458

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 05:03 PM

Just search for nissan SR20 knock sensor.  That sensor came on MANY cars not just nissans.  No balance shafts.  As far as false knock,.... you have to set the voltage threshold in your ECU.  Datalog a full boost run and that will give you the nominal backgound voltage.






The stock sensor has a m10x1.25 connection.  The nissan sensor can only accept up to a m8 bolt.

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I didn't want to remove a bunch of stuff then put a bolt in the stock location, cut it off and grind it smooth then tap for m8.  That would be too much work.  So I modified an broken stocksensor to make an adapter.

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After cleaning it out I melted some aluminum and casted it inside the sensor body.

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After casting I drilled and tapped the stock housing for a m6 bolt.  Then belt sanded the mating surface flat.

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This is what I ended up with.  A perfect adapter.

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#5 TexasQuest

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:37 PM

Rockauto shows them to still be available new $123.00
88 Fiji Blue -TSi
Zoom clutch, Fidanza flywheel, Stedebani shifter, KSport coilovers, ST swaybars, abs delete, a/c delete, cruise delete, JVE, BSEK, TEP steel brake lines, LSP braided cooler lines, CX Racing radiator,  MK1 silicone hoses, MK1 pullies, *DM hard pipes & intercooler,14G turbo, ported exh. manifold, MAF Translator, 3.5" GM maf, Turbo XS RFL bov, *DM 3" exhaust, Cusco front strut bar, TEP rear strut bar, Enkei 92's, HKS turbo timer, AEM wideband, AEM boost gauge, AEM oil pressure gauge, SPA fuel regulator, Hallman boost controller
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View PostJohnnyWadd, on 04 March 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

my shaft was big i dont know what your talking about.

<SOS> http://sosmanuals.minagera.org/
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#6 mstieg

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:30 AM

 TexasQuest, on 10 November 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

Rockauto shows them to still be available new $123.00

Am I missing something or are these not available on the cheap ( < $10 ??)

http://www.ebay.com/...sensor&_sacat=0
Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
In Progress: breakin & tune
Future: Enjoy driving again; meets & local shows; AC; WG reroute from open vent to exh; Water/Meth?; body/paint

FOR SALE:  Rear Camber plates (basic); NIB beefy U-joints(2); etc.see-->  http://www.starquest...howtopic=133262 Custom 5 gauge overlay panel: http://www.starquest...pic=136703&st=0

#7 ucw458

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 12:41 PM

 mstieg, on 14 November 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Am I missing something or are these not available on the cheap ( < $10 ??)

http://www.ebay.com/...sensor&_sacat=0

He's talking about the OEM sensor.
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#8 mstieg

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 01:34 PM

To clarify for home audience, ^ I'm looking SR20 (cheap, needs mod to fit) because I'm MPI with a higher mod build needing a different range of knock voltage.  Other talk is about the stock setup & OEM sensor (pricey).   Thanks.

Edited by mstieg, 16 November 2014 - 01:27 PM.

Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
In Progress: breakin & tune
Future: Enjoy driving again; meets & local shows; AC; WG reroute from open vent to exh; Water/Meth?; body/paint

FOR SALE:  Rear Camber plates (basic); NIB beefy U-joints(2); etc.see-->  http://www.starquest...howtopic=133262 Custom 5 gauge overlay panel: http://www.starquest...pic=136703&st=0

#9 questtuner82

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 11:47 PM

Ok so i got a 90 dsm knock sensor fits good. Got the plug and spliced solder the connection base timing is good and set at 10 btdc running 93 and car still has a spark knock. 18 psi stock motor stock turbo. Maft 3" mas 2.5" exhaust 2.25" hardpipes new and bigger b&p intercooler. RR FPR 41psi at idle. Just a narrowband right now. Pulls hard but wot it has a spark knock (predet) what has to be done bc ive ran my 383 stroker for my dirt track car on 87 a whole season with no issues and the 383 dynoed at 546hp with 87

#10 psu_Crash

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 12:03 AM

Just fyi I bought a new mitsu knock sensor several (7ish) years back. It cost me $120 and I never used it since I went mpi at the same time. They aren't cheap
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Autopower 4 point cage, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
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#11 ucw458

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 12:05 AM

 questtuner82, on 15 November 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

Ok so i got a 90 dsm knock sensor fits good. Got the plug and spliced solder the connection base timing is good and set at 10 btdc running 93 and car still has a spark knock. 18 psi stock motor stock turbo. Maft 3" mas 2.5" exhaust 2.25" hardpipes new and bigger b&p intercooler. RR FPR 41psi at idle. Just a narrowband right now. Pulls hard but wot it has a spark knock (predet) what has to be done bc ive ran my 383 stroker for my dirt track car on 87 a whole season with no issues and the 383 dynoed at 546hp with 87

First off a 383 is not a G54BT so whatever you did on that motor does not apply to a 2.6.

The stock 12a is inefficient above about 10 psi.  It will make more boost but it makes alot more heat doing it.  Not only that but the stock hotside is a little small for those boost levels.  What you need is a 16g with a TD06 wheel in the hotside.  A turbo shop can put that stuff inside a stock turbo housing.  You also need to port the manifold and turbo hotside.  That will help your setup put out more power.

If you care about your car you will stop boosting it to 18 psi until you get a wideband.  Your setup may be leaning out and causing the knock.  Your narrowband is junk and wont tell you squat about a lean condition.  You could be pushing 12-13:1 which is motor blowing territory.  Only a wideband will tell you that.
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#12 TexasQuest

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 12:58 PM

Is the price of an oem one the reason people are searching for alternatives?
88 Fiji Blue -TSi
Zoom clutch, Fidanza flywheel, Stedebani shifter, KSport coilovers, ST swaybars, abs delete, a/c delete, cruise delete, JVE, BSEK, TEP steel brake lines, LSP braided cooler lines, CX Racing radiator,  MK1 silicone hoses, MK1 pullies, *DM hard pipes & intercooler,14G turbo, ported exh. manifold, MAF Translator, 3.5" GM maf, Turbo XS RFL bov, *DM 3" exhaust, Cusco front strut bar, TEP rear strut bar, Enkei 92's, HKS turbo timer, AEM wideband, AEM boost gauge, AEM oil pressure gauge, SPA fuel regulator, Hallman boost controller
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View PostJohnnyWadd, on 04 March 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

my shaft was big i dont know what your talking about.

<SOS> http://sosmanuals.minagera.org/
<SQ Garage> http://www.starquestgarage.com/

#13 markhansenconquest

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 02:45 PM

^^^^same question ???




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