ultraflexxj Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 ok ive got to change the oil pump on my car i was wondering what the fastest easiest way to change it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Its easier to just pull the entire engine that try and do that in the car, the timing cover and all those components must come off, the oil pan and all the more reason to inspect the bearings because why is it you think the pump is bad? These motors get ate up inside with no oil and a new pump won't solve a worn out motor no matter how thick the oil is. Could be your chain snapped and you may think its the pump? Either way no oil pressure on a running engine means ate up bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 I did a pump job in the car, it did indeed suck. Lots of stuff has to come off. It may still be faster to leave the motor in if you don't have an engine lift/stand or a good work area. Regardless of the reason for the pump change, it't good advice to check/change the bearings while you are in there (with the pan off). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 I did a pump job in the car, it did indeed suck. Lots of stuff has to come off. It may still be faster to leave the motor in if you don't have an engine lift/stand or a good work area. Regardless of the reason for the pump change, it't good advice to check/change the bearings while you are in there (with the pan off). Yes... what he said. What is the cause of "needing" to replace the oil pump?? You're gonna have to pull EVERYTHING except the manifolds and head off... just so you can remove that timing cover. Probably 2 hour jerb, to get at it. If you pull the radiator, it'll be 10x easier (100x with the engine out). Make SURE you drain the block, cuz when that timing cover comes off... water is going to go into your oil pan... the less, the better. Be sure to install a NEW pick up tube o ring (OEM ONLY) as well as a gasket. -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrophage Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Its easier to just pull the entire engine that try and do that in the car, the timing cover and all those components must come off, the oil pan and all the more reason to inspect the bearings because why is it you think the pump is bad? These motors get ate up inside with no oil and a new pump won't solve a worn out motor no matter how thick the oil is. Could be your chain snapped and you may think its the pump? Either way no oil pressure on a running engine means ate up bearings. You just answered my quest-ion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultraflexxj Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Its easier to just pull the entire engine that try and do that in the car, the timing cover and all those components must come off, the oil pan and all the more reason to inspect the bearings because why is it you think the pump is bad? These motors get ate up inside with no oil and a new pump won't solve a worn out motor no matter how thick the oil is. Could be your chain snapped and you may think its the pump? Either way no oil pressure on a running engine means ate up bearings. i still have oil pressure just running at minimum spec and i dont like that so im going to replace it the machine shop that built the motor rebuilt the pump i dont thing they did a good job so im just getting a new pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komeuppance Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Was there a new pickup tube oring installed with the pump?? -Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 put a mechanical gauge on it first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vbrad511 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 WHat Indy said first, put a mechanical guage on it and verify actual pressure. Our factory guages are 20 years old, and weren't a true judge of pressure even when they were new. If that reveals low pressure, what Kom said. Anything other than an OEM mitsu oring between the pump and the pickup tube will more than likely have issues. Nobody seems to make them for our oil pumps like the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAinsworth Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Anything other than an OEM mitsu oring between the pump and the pickup tube will more than likely have issues. Nobody seems to make them for our oil pumps like the factory. If you end up needing an OEM o-ring for the p/up tube, let me know. I have a few new ones, I'll drop you one in the mail. Jimmy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 ok ive got to change the oil pump on my car i was wondering what the fastest easiest way to change it is? Why do you think it needs replacing ? Stock oil pressure at idle is only: 11.4 psi at 167 to 194 F. oil temperature. The heavier the oil weight you use above stock recommendations (depending on you modifications) the higher the oil pressure. Does it increase at driving speed ? Where does the stock gauge sit at highway speed (60 to 70 mph). If its at half to three quarters on the stock oil pressure gauge, the oil pump is fine. See, you dont have to go threw all the B.S. and expense of installing a mechanical gauge. In the 18 years ive owned my Starion, Ive replaced the oil pressure sending unit once. If your concerned about your oil pressure reading, Id start their first. Maybe youll save a few bucks. MD092660 : Engine oil gauge (sending) unit. Appox: $40.00. www,autopartspeople.com CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Our factory guages are 20 years old, and weren't a true judge of pressure even when they were new. Well, my STOCK OIL PRESSURE GAUGE has been working fine for 20 years. Where do you get your information from??? Other members, or from someone who has years of experance owning one of these cars for a long period of time??? If its the former or latter, their wrong to say you have to install a mechanical oil pressure gauge to get a proper reading. And so are you for posting such a thing to the membership!!!!! CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattopMike Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Well, my STOCK OIL PRESSURE GAUGE has been working fine for 20 years. Where do you get your information from??? Other members, or from someone who has years of experance owning one of these cars for a long period of time??? If its the former or latter, their wrong to say you have to install a mechanical oil pressure gauge to get a proper reading. And so are you for posting such a thing to the membership!!!!! CALIBER 308 Let's take a poll. Who would go through the trouble of replacing their oil pump because their 20 year old stock electric oil pressure gauge read low without 1st verifying the reading with a good mechanical gauge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 It's common knowledge from those who have been on SCQ for a long time (longer than you) that these gages/sending units are unreliable and often suspect when the readings appear out of range. I can remember a rash of bad senting units back arround 1999-2000'ish. After that, it became a common practice to get a 2nd opinion from a mechanical gage -before- you spent any mony replacing parts in the motor. A mechanical gage costs less than the gasket kit you'll need to open your motor up to look, and it will actualy tell you something. The "open you motor and swap parts at random" won't do that. You don't even need to replace the stcok sending unit, there is a plugged port in the block just below the turbo drain line (on the main oil galley). You can run them in tandem. And this advice comes from a member with 17 years ownership and 10 years on this forum, for those who care about such things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 And this advice comes from a member with 17 years ownership and 10 years on this forum, for those who care about such things... Well, This advice comes from a member whos experanced a low oil pressure reading on the stock gauge and fixed it with a new oil pressure sending unit. 18 years ownership of the same Starion and 35 years of experance working on all types of cars........ CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Let's take a poll. Who would go through the trouble of replacing their oil pump because their 20 year old stock electric oil pressure gauge read low without 1st verifying the reading with a good mechanical gauge? Better yet, Lets take a poll on who has experanced this problem, and how they solved it without the expense of installing a mechanical gauge. The dash oil pressure gauge doesnt go bad, Even after 20 years. The oil pressure sending unit might. If your going to give accurate information, give it. But dont say the only way to find out if the stock dash gauge is accurate is to install a mechanical oil pressure gauge.......... CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Well, This advice comes from a member whos experanced a low oil pressure reading on the stock gauge and fixed it with a new oil pressure sending unit. Then why are you telling them not to get a mechanical gage on there to confirm the readings? Did you just swap parts untill the problem went away, or did you use a mechanical gage to confirm the bad sending unit? the priopper way to diagnose a bad reading is to either bench test the sending unit, or get a 2nd opinion from another gage. I doubt any of us has the propper setup to bench test a strain gage, and the 2nd opinion from a mechanical gage costs about $25, and you get to keep the gage . My STOCK OIL PRESSURE GAUGE has been working fine for 20 years This advice comes from a member whos experanced a low oil pressure reading on the stock gauge and fixed it with a new oil pressure sending unit. Perhaps you are misreading the intent of those recomending the mechanical gage vs the inaccurate stock setup. Are you presuming they (we) mean the dash needle is defective? No, they (we) are saying the sending unit is suspect. Being electornic, t's a 2 part system. Calling it the stock gage implies both (either) units. Clearly the asemlby is not reliable, even you have experianced a failure. Correction, I too have 18 years experiance, I bought my car in 1991, same as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Better yet, Lets take a poll on who has experanced this problem, and how they solved it without the expense of installing a mechanical gauge. CALIBER 308 mcmaster-carr supply www.mcmaster.com Item number # 3847K71 oil pressure gage Single Scale (0-100 psi) 1 1/2" diameter 1/8" NPT $8.34 It's not that expensive. I'd bet most of us have access to one to borrow though a buddy, for free. I have one if any one wants to borrow it. $8.34 is a cheap answer vs. buing a new OEM sending unit and hoping that fixes the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlattopMike Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Better yet, Lets take a poll on who has experanced this problem, and how they solved it without the expense of installing a mechanical gauge. CALIBER 308 I have experienced this problem and I solved it by spending less money on an after market gauge then if I had replaced the stock sending unit with a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliber308 Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Then why are you telling them not to get a mechanical gage on there to confirm the readings? Did you just swap parts untill the problem went away, or did you use a mechanical gage to confirm the bad sending unit? the priopper way to diagnose a bad reading is to either bench test the sending unit, or get a 2nd opinion from another gage. I doubt any of us has the propper setup to bench test a strain gage, and the 2nd opinion from a mechanical gage costs about $25, and you get to keep the gage . Perhaps you are misreading the intent of those recomending the mechanical gage vs the inaccurate stock setup. Are you presuming they (we) mean the dash needle is defective? No, they (we) are saying the sending unit is suspect. Being electornic, t's a 2 part system. Calling it the stock gage implies both (either) units. Clearly the asemlby is not reliable, even you have experianced a failure. Correction, I too have 18 years experiance, I bought my car in 1991, same as you. The only part that has failed me in the 21 years of this car lifetime as far as the oil pressure reading goes is the sending unit. And it didnt take a mechanical gauge to figure it out. CALIBER 308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Read the origional posters first 2 posts. If you were him, would you spend $$$$ on a rebuild, $$$ on an new OEM sending unit, or ~$9 (or free if you borrow one) to check the oil pressure with a different gage. This thread isn't about "how much caliber308 knows about cars", it's about diagnosing ultraflexxj's low observed oil pressure. he may or may not have low oil pressure, how is he going to be sure? What is yoru advice to this member? he may or may not have low oil pressure, how is he going to be sure? Should he "just know" like you did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Read the origional posters first 2 posts. If you were him, would you spend $$$$ on a rebuild, $$$ on an new OEM sending unit, or ~$9 (or free if you borrow one) to check the oil pressure with a different gage. This thread isn't about "how much caliber308 knows about cars", it's about diagnosing ultraflexxj's low observed oil pressure. he may or may not have low oil pressure, how is he going to be sure? What is yoru advice to this member? he may or may not have low oil pressure, how is he going to be sure? Should he "just know" like you did? I want a TRUE Reading of oil pressure, not a guess from an electrical gauge.!! Period! If it reads fine Then get a new sending unit. If it reads bad, Rebuild and maybe still change the sending unit, But I bet you keep the mechanical gauge installed. If I lost pressure say from an oil cooler line busting, That mechanical gauge will tell me a lot faster than that electrical one. Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emagdnim Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 if anyone wants me to give them advice on how i sawzalled my pos stock excuse for guages pm me. Oh yea, autometers suck too. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf87Conquest Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Verification of the guage accuracy should be the first step in diagnosing this problem. The answering poster had the right idea in questioning the accuracy of the stock guage and suggested to verify by installing a mechanical guage. This forum is here to help those in need, therefore, the best advice is to verify there is a problem and where best to check further. I myself would install the mechanical guage to check the situation to see what further action may be required. It would also point me in the right direction in diagnosing a potential faulty part(s). I would like to point out this forum is to help those in need, we do not get paid to do so...we do it to help out. Some, like myself, have many years experiance in general auto repair, rebuilding engines to electrical repairs on many different makes and models. Some have more with this particular model and are wanting to share that knowledge. I for one applaud that effort. Lets all try to concentrate on helping a fellow member or guest in fixing their problem shall we? A big thank you to those who started this website, those who are moderators, and those most willing to help. This site is here and continues to be a source for us all because of their efforts, it's a big job. Wolf aka Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 sometimes a stock gauge fails or sticks or reads incorrectly because the plastic part on the back where you can't see that acts as the stop for needle to not go from its range cracks and its a tiny little nylon loop, the pin that moves back and forth in that slot jumps out one end and then the needle is stuck or has the wrong range of movement, it can happen from you removing the cluster for some other reason or hitting a big pothole and your car bottoms out or if you or someone else was careless and installed those crap hokey stickers over your gauges and just plain busted it the sending unit will also change how it puts out the voltage if you have removed it from the car, its a physical type error with debris stuck behind or in front of the moving internal parts or the diaphragm tears, if you try and flush it out you'll get sludge and that dislodges the crap that was trapped in there and then it reads wrong so unless you want to soak it and put a hard wire in the end and try and clean it back up its easier to get a new sending unit and start over but I thought they were about $35-$40 and when you put on the new sending unit with a new rebuild and have what appears to be higher pressure just after a bsek and you don't have 1psi more they will still claim some difference when there isn't any it just shows different on the gauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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