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MS3X Wasted Spark. Need advice.


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#1 Martsubishi10

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 04:09 AM

Good morning SQer's!
I'm having a problem setting up my MS3 for direct coil control.
I'm in phase one of my Megasquirt project, which is running the stock system while I wait on Gato to finish the intake.
I'm setting up the MS3X  (firmware 1.5 1) V 3.57, to run the stock TBI with a 32-1 wheel and a ford crank sensor (new).

I can't get the coil to fire.
I have the ignition settings at toothed wheel.
3 skipped pulses, rising edge,spark at going high, and wasted spark for the coil.
The coil is a 4 tower NGK coil (U2005) for a Ranger.
There is 12v key power (fused) on the coil at the middle terminal, and coming from the MS3X connector I have Spark A on coils 1,4 & Spark B is on coils 2,3.

Under test settings I checked the outputs of Spark A & B, and I'm only getting up to less than a volt rising and descending. If I play around with the dwell time I can get about 2 volts on the meter.

MS3X does direct coil control without the EDIS module.
Shouldn't I be seeing a 5V switching signal on spark A and B? Could anyone help me here? I'm sure its something stupid, but it's really slowing me down.
Thanks!






#2 scott87star

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 11:59 AM

What are you using to measure the voltage out?  

It's probably a 36-1 wheel, not 32-1 and I have better luck with falling edge for that combination.  MS3X ignition outputs are logic output only so they cannot drive that coil pack directly without additional IGBT's.
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#3 Martsubishi10

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 05:05 PM

Yes its a 36-1. That was a typo on my part.  I don't have a scope so I was using my Fluke meter.

The ms3x hardware manual says there's bip373's in the box for direct coil control without the need for an ignition module.
Are they still saying I need power transistors to handle the switching current?
I have an edis4 module on the way, I'll try that when it gets here.
I can see that it's switching the current rapidly when I tested it. I was thinking that the coil needs to have a higher voltage and current for it to fire in this arrangement. Before I try falling edge I wanted to ask. Shouldn't none of that matter when I go into test mode to fire the coil?






#4 scott87star

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 06:07 PM

You can't see the real voltage without a scope, it's all of 3 mS so I suspect the actual waveform is 0-5V.  The MS3X hardware manual says there is ONE bip in the box, on the 3.57 mainboard (Q16), the 3X outputs are all logic, you can add just one more BIP to the heat sink fairly easily which is the lowest cost way of doing it.  I would not use the EDIS module as it prevents the use of spark cut features like two step and rev limiter.

Quote

5.3 Ignition outputs The MS3X output has provision for eight sequential logic spark outputs. The mainboard has provision for a single high-current ignition output as standard.
  Page 94 of the manual.
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#5 Martsubishi10

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 06:32 PM

Dohhh! lol you're the man. I need to get an O scope. Its another bucket list item.

With the single output could I still drive the original coil off the distributor? I intend to get rid of the stock ignition of course, but now I'm curious.
I'm gonna look into what it takes to add another tranaistor to the board. Thanks for the info.

#6 Martsubishi10

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 06:44 PM

Wait a sec... the logic outputs🤦‍♂️ does this mean they could run smart coils directly for sequential? That may be a better deal.

#7 scott87star

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 10:08 AM

You can drive the stock coil and use the distributor, or you can get some smart coils and drive them directly.

Full sequential smart coils, I sell this as a kit:  https://www.youtube....h?v=eVbwYdaEMAI
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#8 Martsubishi10

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:16 PM

 scott87star, on 13 January 2020 - 10:08 AM, said:

You can drive the stock coil and use the distributor, or you can get some smart coils and drive them directly.

Full sequential smart coils, I sell this as a kit:  https://www.youtube....h?v=eVbwYdaEMAI


#9 Martsubishi10

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 08:20 PM

One more question. If I want to go sequential just for spark to drive those coils , will I still need the dist mod for a cam sensor? I've been wanting to go full sequential on both after I get the intake from Gato. That setup is beautiful btw!

#10 scott87star

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 09:43 AM

For full sequential, yes, the ECU has to know where #1 cylinder is on the compression stroke so it needs a cam trigger in addition to the crank trigger.  You can run them in waste spark mode, not the same coils but these are running in waste spark mode:  https://www.youtube....MJCt2mkXs&t=52s

Of course if you want sequential injection then you need to get the cam trigger anyway, the mighty max or galant optical distributor with an aftermarket trigger wheel can do both "crank" and cam signals or in the case of the smart coil video above only for cam.

Edited by scott87star, 14 January 2020 - 09:45 AM.

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