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How much tunnel work to fit a T-56 in a manual ?

manual t-56 t56 tunnel

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#1 AustinTSI

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 10:16 PM

I have read of several people that have swapped a T-56 into a Starion on several sites including this one. But the other day I read a post on this site saying that the T-56 won't fit in the manual transmission body even using a sledge hammer to make room.

So my question is, with regard to the manual transmission tunnel, how much work has to be done to make a T-56 fit? Is it just an issue that the LS-1 (long input shaft) won't fit and the LT-1 (short input shaft) fits when a hammer is used?

Or is there some other issues?

Thankx.





#2 TsTKl

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Posted 04 September 2011 - 11:22 PM

only option is to cut out the floor and weld in a new one. long shaft or short shaft. Theres no way in hell the short shaft is narrow or short enough to fit in. I have the long shaft, but its the same casing basically so theres not going to be any room found by going to the short shaft.

It doesn't fit, Period.

Edited by TsTKl, 04 September 2011 - 11:24 PM.

proof it did run at one point...
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#3 BOOSTED88tsi

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 03:08 AM

^ fits fine your trippin!
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#4 25gconquest

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 09:55 PM

I have the long shaft I had to cut the tunnel and raise it by welding in a two inch spacer and tapering it down. Even with that modification it still a tight fit. The black rubber isolator at top center of tranny touch the top of the tunnel to have it sit straight with the engine. I am using a internal hydraulic bearing and everytime I have to replce it I have to pull the engine and tranny. PIDA!!! to replace.

#5 BOOSTED88tsi

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 10:49 PM

i took that isolator off the top haha screw that thing!
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2003 600rr ,1987 conquest, and a soon to be 03 cobra powered 1968 mustang coupe.

#6 Chad

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Posted 06 September 2011 - 12:28 PM

cutting/welding is BS  :(   I got mine to fit with twenty mnutes of slowly masaging the pass side ot the tuunel, it needs to move over undder a half inch in just one spot, this is easy hammer work.

been there - done that, put the cutter away.

#7 mstieg

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 12:07 AM

Why the disagreements on this?  Is there a special way to install & pull it?
Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
In Progress: breakin & tune
Future: Enjoy driving again; meets & local shows; AC; WG reroute from open vent to exh; Water/Meth?; body/paint

FOR SALE:  Rear Camber plates (basic); NIB beefy U-joints(2); etc.see-->  http://www.starquest...howtopic=133262 Custom 5 guage overlay panel: http://www.starquest...pic=136703&st=0

#8 Scotty Dont

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 12:13 AM

View Postmstieg, on 14 November 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

Why the disagreements on this?  Is there a special way to install & pull it?


Because the two that said it wont fit both swapped in different motors so it doesn't really apply to the original posters question of putting a t56 in a starion with a g54b, I would take Chads word on it as he is the one who helped design the g54b-t56 flywheel
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#9 BOHO

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 08:32 PM

View PostScotty Dont, on 14 November 2011 - 12:13 AM, said:



Because the two that said it wont fit both swapped in different motors so it doesn't really apply to the original posters question of putting a t56 in a starion with a g54b, I would take Chads word on it as he is the one who helped design the g54b-t56 flywheel

Scotty is correct...And Chad...Its the same reason the r154 needs more "tunnel mods" on the 1jz/2jz swaps than it does in a g54b car...The ls1 is 5mm from the firewall and the g54b is not...
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#10 FLATBROKE313

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:44 PM

Good stuff here anyone have detailed pics or any other good wright ups with pics other then convette and boosted88tsi?

#11 TsTKl

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 11:36 PM

View PostScotty Dont, on 14 November 2011 - 12:13 AM, said:



Because the two that said it wont fit both swapped in different motors so it doesn't really apply to the original posters question of putting a t56 in a starion with a g54b, I would take Chads word on it as he is the one who helped design the g54b-t56 flywheel

I used two stock motor mounts with a 4g63, so it should be "roughly" the same location as the g54b. Either way the transmission wouldn't fit without being moved almost a foot forward. The biggest problem is the overall height of the transmission. You would have to make a custom k-member and lower the engine/transmission in order to make it fit, I would HATE doing that because then every time you bottom out, your hitting your transmission first, even before your exhaust.

View PostChad, on 06 September 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

cutting/welding is BS  :(   I got mine to fit with twenty mnutes of slowly masaging the pass side ot the tuunel, it needs to move over undder a half inch in just one spot, this is easy hammer work.

been there - done that, put the cutter away.

I refuse to believe this without seeing it in person. Do you have pictures to back these statements up? I took a full sized sledge hammer to my tunnel for almost 12 hours straight. I locked myself in the shop and ended up being there for 3 days straight working on my car. I wanted there to be ANY option other than welding. I used an air hammer, sledge, mini sledge, hydraulic body bender, everything I could think of. The sawzall ended up being the ONLY fix.

View PostFLATBROKE313, on 13 December 2011 - 09:44 PM, said:

Good stuff here anyone have detailed pics or any other good wright ups with pics other then convette and boosted88tsi?

you can look at my build thread on here or at projectzerog.com

I would estimate that you need at least 2 inches on each side, and almost 4 inches above it. This is including having access to the reverse lights sensor, vss, and reverse lockout switch, but excluding the second gear lockout switch. If I had wanted to keep that it would have been even more work.
proof it did run at one point...
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#12 Chad

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:21 PM

You must have done somethign wrong man.  I'll have to dig up pics, that was 8 years ago.  From scratch, not knowing what needed to be move nor how much, I was done in 2 hours (not all at once), includign many mountings/dismountings of the transmission to be sure I was satisfied.  the transmittion belly sits aobut 1/2" lower than the front K-member, using stock motor mounts.  It could sit up 1/2"-3/4" higher, but I didn't want to hear the transmission bump the tunnel.  the exhaust was sitting quite a bit lower than the trans, so no worrys about bottoming out.  

I didn't hook up the reverse lock out, VSS (will convert to a manual adapter), or CAGS switch.   I also cut off unnecessary casting tabs from the outside of the case.   Perhaps that's your problem?

Several others have done this with the same level of effort as well, so my car was no fluke.

#13 Chad

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:35 PM

http://webpages.char...el/DCP00790.JPG

Here is a pic from the rear.  the trans K member is aluminum, and the belly of the trans can be seen sitting just below it (about 3/4").  the belly of the trans is about 4" off the ground, and my car is way lowered.  You'll see there is no exhaust in this pic, I coverted to exit exhaust for better ground clearance.  If it were there, youl'd see it woudl sit quite a bit lower.

Proof?  that K member bracket is 2" angle, so the bottom of the bracket is 2" below the floor pan where the trans K-member mounts, which is abotu 1-1/2" higher than the frame rails.   So with the 3/4" of the trans droop below the K-member + the 2" height of the K-member = 2-3/4" from the floor pan to the trans belly.  1-1/2" from the floor pan to the bottom of the frame rails to the 2-3/4" of the trans belly = trans sits 1-1/4" below the frame rails, that's about where the stock exhaust sits.  LIke I said, you can mount it higher if you want.

#14 Chad

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 06:48 PM

I was home on my lunch break todayand  I peeked under the car :  I was wrong.  the frame rails come down 2", not 1-1/2", and the belly of the trans is only 3/4" below the frame rails at it's lowest point.

#15 TsTKl

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 04:09 PM

can you get pictures with your car up on a rack? did you use a t5 or something? i removed some tabs as well (they look like mounting tabs but really are there to protect the electrical connections). i still dont know how on earth you did it.
proof it did run at one point...
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#16 Chad

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 04:35 PM

6 speed Borg-warner (pre-Tremec) T56, trust me, it goes into 6th and brings the RMP's down to about 2000 at 80 MPH. :) .

It's not going on a rack any time soon.  I broke my back 5 montsh ago and working on cars isn't priority right now.  I'll see if I can snap a cell phone pic of it in my driveway.

#17 AustinTSI

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 03:53 AM

In another post that I started about T56 options SPEEDSTAR had this to say:

Quote

I remember Chad saying that 93 to 97 t56 put the shifter in the stock location , maybe an inch or so off , which way I not sure,its supposed to be as good a fit as can be had...Jeff

I had also posted this pdf on some T56 measurements http://www.austincs....nDimensions.pdf

I'm thinking that the problems TsTKI had has to be related to the specific model he used.

#18 TsTKl

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:58 AM

the specific model I used looked identical to the later model year version jason used. He also had similar problems. Chad what year was your transmission out of? If I remember correctly mine was a 98 and jasons was a 2000. I remember speaking to others about size and hearing that the casing was almost identical bewteen all years, including long and short shaft. The biggest differences occured when looking at cobra vs. F body. The viper is more similar to the f-body than the cobra. I've never seen one of the ones out of the aston martin and the corvette is a rear transmission car so it can't be easily used.
proof it did run at one point...
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#19 Chad

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:46 PM

The one I used and the one my kit was designed for was the 93-97 for the TL-1 motor.  Mine is a 95 if I recall.

98+ is the LS1 version.  DIfferent midplate and bell with a longer input shaft, but I thought the case was the same.  I have an LS1 trans in my shot (I was palnning making a kit for that as well) but I don't recall any obvious external differences in the case.  I think the tail shaft housing is slightly different too, but pretty close.

If you used an LS1, I have no idea how it fits since I never tried to fit my ls1 T56.  The LT1 just fits so well, I never had cause to try.

#20 mstieg

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 08:15 PM

I have the 97 trans # 1386-000-016, custom T56 flywheel, and clutch ready to roll.  Trans even came w/ a Hurst shifter :D

When can I get my hands on your kit Chad?
Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
In Progress: breakin & tune
Future: Enjoy driving again; meets & local shows; AC; WG reroute from open vent to exh; Water/Meth?; body/paint

FOR SALE:  Rear Camber plates (basic); NIB beefy U-joints(2); etc.see-->  http://www.starquest...howtopic=133262 Custom 5 guage overlay panel: http://www.starquest...pic=136703&st=0





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