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rack and pinion????


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im surprised the weight reduction guys havent  already done this. it should be a substantial weight reduction over the stock setup.  most racks weigh somewhere around 20-35 lbs i think, and would eliminate all that crap about our gearboxes leaking all over the place.  our gearboxes alone probably weigh 34-40 lbs, then you add the weight of all the linkages etc.  it would elimnate a few joints to get worn out and as long as you used a common off the shelf component. if you ever did wear one out, you just replace one unit and youve got nice new tight steering again.   the hardest part would be attatching the steering coupler from our steering column.  im thinking about a mustang 2 unit.  brian since you work in a ford environment perhaps you could take a look at one and get an idea if it would fit.  maybe measure it for width, tie rod end to tie rod end.  the custom and classic trucks use these same units, so there might be some readily available kits to make them pretty much a bolt in unit.
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I wanna get my car back so I can play with a couple of different ideas.  Rack & Pinion is definately on the top of the list.  I'll let you know what I come up with.  I'll do some research on monday on different options for the rack itself.

 

Laters,

 

Brian

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Guest silverngray

I was thinkin about the EVO8 rack. Would have to be off the 2003 model as they slowed it down for 2004. Not to sure about the overall lenght though. I still have plenty of other things to do before worrying about this though.

 

Rico

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have a pretty full plate but ended up at the yard again.

scored the 240sx rack and  crossmember.

Got the crossmember too because I thought it may make it easier since the rack and pinion brackets are welded to it.

the lower control arms and crossmember that has the motor mounts is  almost EXACTLY like ours if not EXACTLY OURs. It is the same config as a starquest (visually)

 

I feel very confident that it would be an easy job.

I will document every step when I do it and will POST PICs.

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I will.

 

Sport compact did an engine swap in a 240 and changed out the crossmember.

As soon as I got it out I realized I had seen it in sport compact.

It was out of an 86 240sx. I thought it was a good investment  getting the cross member since it would be centered correctly.

Funny thing too is the steering column is like ours and mounts to the firewall in the same way.

going to go and grab that too, our column goes straight to the box and the 240 pivots to where it connects. I feel like getting it and if i have to cut and weld the original firewall mount to the 240sx column so it will bolt to firewall should really make it alot easier too.

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Wow.. DO IT DO IT!  I just wanted to get my car on the road first so I have yet to get around to it.  Have you found a tool to enlarge the taper in the steering knuckles?  I'll take some photos of a 240 steering setup (I have a motorless 240 out back).  Dont expect any till the end of the week though.

 

One thing to remember is that you will need to keep the axis of the lower arms of the suspension lined up with the ball joints on each end of the rack and pinion.  Think of it as an imaginary line from where the "strut bar" and "lower arm" pivot off of the frame.  This imaginary line should go through the pivots between the inner tie rod and the actually rack.

 

Does this make sense?  I dont know how to explain it without pictures and I dont have any at the moment.

 

Anyways... if you dont set it up this way you'll have TONS of bump steer.  It doesnt look very difficult to change.  You can just weld some plates to the crossmember to move the bolt holes outward a few inches.  You'll be welding it anyways so waht's the big deal.  And you might get away with just cutting the lower control arm shorter and drilling a new hole in it.  Or you can go with a tubular lower control arm which would also be pretty simple to construct and would have some other added benefits.

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I have recomended Mitubishi racks ,because they are all the same size or dam close , and they use the same basic pump.   I have about 8 racks and many steering colms  off FWD mitubishi's  And by taking the steering assy off  the colum with the plate and part of the fire wall around the plate , so the shaft can hook up with the rack.   I would recomend brackets on the crossmember be made with slots to allow the rack to be moved up and down untill every thing fits right .   The reamers that can open up the steering arm so the tierod end will fit, are around 100 to 130 bucks.   if enough pepole show interest I can have one made and rent it or have yours done hear.  i am finally going to have a little time before our 8 month tour of the USA  to make a rack an pinion steering setup .   I will take pictures and if an old fart can fingure out  how I will post them.

Have fun

Mark_T

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I cant imagine the pump compatibility to be a very big issue.  I mean if the difference between the gearbox and the rack and pinion is negligable to use the same pump, then how different cant it be between other steering racks.  And custom lines aren't too difficult to make.  I made all mine with a $10 flare tool and maybe $4 in hard fuel lines.

 

But that's the easy stuff right?  (I'm not running a rack yet, BTW).  I think the biggest issue is going to be a safe way to connect the stock steering column to the rack.  Nothing a high quality weld can't solve, but I have yet to see it all laid out to see if it would work.. it looks like you would either have to use another column or notch the frame rail because the steering comes out directly above it without enough space (probably) to get around the frame before getting to the rack.

 

I really wish I had a spare chassis to play with.  My buddy works at a machine shop that has the bits for the steering knuckles, so that will eliminate that problem.  I just cant take the car off the road at this point to experiment.

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i agree, i dont see whereas the pump will make any issues.  the worst i can imagine is that our pump may produce too much pressure and make the steering faster than it should be, in which case its a simple deal to install a valve in the pressure line and turn it down untill we find what we like. nothing to it.  as for the steering couplers, most of our cars  have worn out couplers anyways, so im certain a trip to your fav junkyard will net you something that will likely fit.  it would be nice to have a small universal at either or maybe both ends.  if anyone has a hot rod shop close by, those guys will likely know right off what we need to use for a coupler since a r&p setup is fairly common in older classics and hot rods.
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The FWD car has a double ujoint shaft that goes through the fire wall at an angle to match up the steering shaft to the steering rack.  The stock shaft can either be shorten to the right distance or the FWD steering shaft can be used with the quest to make a steeringassy that is the right size.  

The trick is the angle between the steering shaft and the rack.  and than where to cut the fire wall so every thing hooks up correctly.

Mark T

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had not noticed this thread before, and I am glad to see someone

actually try this, as it has been talked about on the SQ board for over 5 years.

 

I started to look into this a year ago, but did not get very far because I was

trying to find an electric rack & pinion unit to use.  Electric R&P is being used

by more cars every year.  Pontiac, BMW, Honda, VW, Bently are brands that

I know of that have had electric R&P in at least one model.  I was having

problems getting info on the deminsions of these units and also their

load capability.  I am sure that, if we could fit it in, the unit from a BMW Z4

would be great, but the Honda Civic one might be too frail as everything

on a Civic is thin.

 

If anyone here works in the industry or has access to this kind of info,

I would appreaciate some recomendations.

 

Electric R&P has some obvious advantages; no pump, reduced power loss,

no hoses, etc.

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I haven't gotten to mine yet.

Still need an engine hoist to remove engine.

Just found a good picture of it in HCI magazine page 131 from March 2004.

great picture of the crossmember I spoke of previously with the rack on the back side. Also shows how it passes thru the firewall to connect.

 

Check it out.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I was thinking about the problem of the angle between the end of the stock steering column and the input shaft to the R&P.  

 

Has anyone ever tried to move the steering column back a few inches from the dash?

 

I have wanted to do this but the effort always seemed more than the reward.

Due to a back problem I have always angled my seat back.  This causes me to move it forward so my hands can be comfortable on the steering wheel, but my legs always feel a tad bit cramped.

 

However if it also helps to resolve the problem of getting a better angle for the intermediate shaft that will be needed to connect to the R&P it might be worth it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

they sell rebuilt steering boxes

 

1984-1989 Mitsubishi Starion ALL MODELS Steering Gear Box  

Code: GD9507  

$350

$150 core charge

Meridian Auto Parts,  10211 Pacific Mesa Blvd,  Suite 404,  San Diego, CA 92121 Phone: 1-888-275-2525  

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  • 1 month later...
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