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TBI Megasquirt help please


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#1 Matt888

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:40 PM

Ok,
I just finished the "Plug n Play" Megasquirt upgrade on my 89 Conquest.  Yes, Scott and I have a PM going but I think quite a few others are running his system and may be able to help me also. The car will only turn over for a spilt second and dies.  I see on the laptop when connected to the ECU rpms rise to maybe 300-400rpms (indicating a tach signal I suppose) and it never idles.  Throttle position is showing on the laptop when pressing the accelerator.  Set fixed timing in software to 10 and fairly confident my crank position and distributor are set right... Atleast for initial timing adjustments.  I have a mark on my crank pulley that corresponds to top stroke of piston #1 and I've checked startup at both TDC with valves open and closed.  Obviously I get an initial half-second ignition with valves closed.  Also made sure the distributor was at plug #1 at TDC.  Something aint right and I took the time to install carefully and per the instructions.  

What can I check in the software to give me a clue?  Did anyone go this route and not get fuel delivery perhaps?





#2 scott87star

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:33 PM

I'll just go through the steps here Matt so everyone can see.  First, computers aren't smart, they just do math really fast.  Second we want to see what the ECU is seeing so you need to take a datalog and email it to me, when connected go up the the top tool bar in Tuner Studio to Datalogging, pick Start Logging and accept the default time/date stamp.  The moment you hit accept the ECU is recording everything, I mean everything it can like all the sensor inputs, battery voltage, fuel outputs, all that stuff.  Take several start attempts, take your time, maybe a few seconds cranking if it doesn't fire or if it does let it do what it does.  After three to five attempts go back to datalogging and hit Stop Logging.  That datalog file will be in the datalog folder of your Tuner Studio project directory, attach it to an email and send it to me.  I can usually spot the problem in a few seconds.

Most startup issues are timing related so while you're waiting for me to take a look double check that when the crank is set to the "T" mark on the timing cover that the distributor rotor is slightly before the #1 cylinder tower and that you're on the compression stroke.  Easy to check if you pull off the oil cap and look, you can see the cam lobes for #1 right there, they should both be pointing down (meaning the rocker is on the base circle).
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#3 BC_99

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:56 PM

Matt, I had the same issue. My distributor was off just a bit. I had to screw my throttle adjuster screw in some to get it to stay running long enough to get the timing set closer with a timing light. Then followed up with Scott, and we are working on getting me dialed in now. Take your time and be patient. He'll get you straightened out pretty quick.

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#4 Matt888

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:50 PM

Ok, I did record 2 datalogs before reading responses here and emailed Scott.  Unfortunately the datalogs are both recorded after turning the key over and getting her to idle with my secondary injector (she wouldn't stay idling using the primary).  Maybe it is a timing issue... I eyeballed the TDC and distributor but my damn timing gun isn't working.  I'll probably need to pickup a new gun and report back.

#5 Preludedude

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:29 PM

It took a few logs and tweaks before Scott got my TBI running.  Double check dizzy timing. Follow fsm guideline for installing dizzy.  Scott will get you squared away. Just start logging attempted starts....

#6 88351wtsi

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 10:13 PM

Scott!!! Respect him!!! He's a genius and someday they will make a movie about him. My suggestion: whatever he tells you to do, do it. If he built your system then he tested it. Mine was setup for rising rate when it needed to be falling rate but I'm running full sequential ignition and injection.
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#7 scott87star

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Posted 12 March 2017 - 10:37 AM

To update, Matt's got an 88 and got the plug and play system for 88-89 TBI which is staged injectors, 580 primary and 1080 secondary, turns out Matt is using two factory secondaries due to earlier issues with the factory ECU.  Oops, miscommunication, it happens.  He got it running poorly but running and the AFR was pegged at 10, pig rich.  Pig pig rich.  My hats off to the ignition system to be able to fire that off at all.  In the log he sent of course the AFR is flat lined and the injector pulse width is way too much for a 1000 cc injector.

So I wiped out the staged part of the injector setup because it's pointless with equal sized injectors and cut the global pulse width back over half.  The key will be to get the car running again and adjust the global fuel value (called Required Fuel in the Megasquirt systems) until at hot idle the AFR is 13-13.5.  That brings the VE table into alignment and it will be driving.

Edited by scott87star, 12 March 2017 - 10:38 AM.

Now selling true plug and play megasquirt!  Absolutely the best value in stand alone ECU's out there.

I can upgrade your Fuel Injection Pro firmware

Performance Coatings!  Pistons, manifolds, bearings and more!

Now a graduate of EFI University!  www.efi101.com

ECU Vendor link:  http://www.starquest...howtopic=137426

#8 Matt888

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:43 AM

Yes, Scott is on top of it and helping.  I get to play with it about an hr each night.  Any more than that and I'm in the dog house for spending time on a "toy" and not the family.  The most recent datalog sent to Scott reveals a very weak vacuum and so I will hunt for that this evening.  I only threw 2 secondary injectors in because it flat out wouldn't run with a primary in-place initially... probably due to timing AND vacuum issues.  I have no issues with running 2 secondaries longterm if that's where we head.  We're still trying to sort out why my A/F ratio is pegged at @ 10 and never even wiggles.  Going to try a calibration attempt this evening.  Making progress and I bet she'll be out on the street one day very soon!

Oh, not that it matters much, but it's an 89!

Edited by Matt888, 14 March 2017 - 08:44 AM.


#9 BC_99

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 12:04 PM

Good to hear. He's helped me out a bunch getting mine sorted out. Same plug n play set fot tbi. He gave me the go ahead to drive it easily and get some more logging in last week. Well some dummy left the ignition switch on and had a dead battery on Saturday when I went to do that. Then we've had snow and rain ever since. Hopefully this weather clears up and we can continue the progress. Good luck with yours.

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#10 Matt888

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:28 AM

Last night I resolved 2 issues caused by me and obviously not Scott...  I must have inadvertently soldered a piece of the shield to the conductor on the O2 signal.  Cleaned it up, resoldered and bam, wideband data working!  Also fixed a bonehead vacuum issue.  I had my MAP sensor getting vacuun from one of the 3 nipples on the throttle body.  Moved it down and tee'd into the HVAC nipple.  Car is idling strong as hell around 1100rpms.  Sent a datalog to Scott.  Real close to turning her loose on the street!

#11 BC_99

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:31 AM

Lol. I made the same mistake on the map vacuum. Get some pictures up.

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#12 Matt888

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 03:05 PM

Unfortunately there's nothing too exciting about a Megasquirt TBI upgrade from a visual perspective or I'd already have some up!  Between the ECU being packaged completely inside the stock ECU case, the replacement distributor that is stock in appearance, a wideband O2 sensor you can't see, etc.  But I should take a pic of where my IAT sensor/bung is welded and maybe where I decided to attach the 3BarMAP.  This conversion is step 1.  Once all is running well, step 2 is the Magna manifold MPI upgrade later this summer (I have the modified intake already).  Step 3 will be a Holset Turbo and larger intercooler.  I started a separate thread for the MPI conversion but there's no updates until I get this TBI Megasquirt fine tuned.  I'll continue to drive it with TBI until I accumulate the needed parts for the MPI conversion...

#13 BC_99

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:49 PM

I wasn't talking about pictures of the ms setup. Lol. I want to see more of your car. And since you brought it up, maybe some one can benefit from these.

My Ait sensor location.

Posted Image

My map sensor is bolted into one of the old isc bracket holes in the TB.

Posted Image

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#14 88351wtsi

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 06:24 PM

Glad to hear you have it running. Take plenty of logs and you will notice the gains before you know it.

Good place for the map sensor BC. If I was still TBI I would probably put mine there too.

Edited by 88351wtsi, 15 March 2017 - 06:25 PM.

1988 Conquests  

His:  Durban maroon with 351w  
        Sophia white MS2 full sequential with BW S257sxe in the middle of a full tear down

Hers: Red restored and on the road, mostly stock

#15 Matt888

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 09:00 AM

This is brutal.  Runs ok one day.  Cold start is crap the next.  Could never get it to run with the stock injectors so had to run 2 secondaries.  Have a tune to run the secondaries only in both positions and then today tried to start the car and the idle was rough as hell.  This makes for a cool project but do NOT consider going this route if this is your daily driver (it is not for me) or you have visions of plugging this system in and driving anytime soon!  I wish I had someone near me that has gone this route.  Anyone in the Tampa area?

#16 scott87star

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:08 AM

I can always get them running better than OEM, you have so many more adjustments (as opposed to zero on the factory ECM) that there is no reason not to have it starting perfectly every day.  Unfortunately you only get one crack and a cold start per day so datalog everything everytime.  From the datalog you can see how much fuel is being injected at ambient temp and watch how quickly it starts.  Initial cranking fuel is controlled by the Cranking Pulse %, bigger numbers inject more fuel, if it starts right up but then dies move on to Afterstart Enrichment (ASE) which injects extra fuel for a programmed time to keep it running.  Once you get through that Warm Up Enrichment (WUE) controls fuel until the coolant temp is up to snuff.

It's been said in these forums several times, don't think you can mod your way out of an engine not running well to begin with and have it magically work perfect.  That being said at least you have all the information you need to get it running perfectly now, you have to get good at reading datalogs.
Now selling true plug and play megasquirt!  Absolutely the best value in stand alone ECU's out there.

I can upgrade your Fuel Injection Pro firmware

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ECU Vendor link:  http://www.starquest...howtopic=137426

#17 Matt888

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 10:58 AM

Clearly you have alot of experience with this Scott and there's no doubt in my mind that you could get a car running fine on Megasquirt in short order.  There's plenty on here rocking down the road right now with your systems on here.  It's a bit of a tough pill to swallow to have it running on a stock ECU and now cross my fingers and hope it starts let alone run well.  Lots of data and just drinking from a fire house right now..  got in a bit over my head thinking it would be a fairly easy transition.  Hell, I took it for a spin earlier, let autotune do its thing, came home and parked it.  Went out to turn it over and nothing.  I logged a couple of turns of the key.  Wouldn't startup.  Coolant is around 180 degrees from earlier drive so wouldn't imagine a Cold Start has anything to do with it.

#18 Preludedude

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:54 PM

My cold starts are a little difficult without having an isc and all.....

But it always starts...it may take a few seconds of turning over and giving a little gas...

But when engine is warm, it starts normally...

#19 Matt888

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:04 PM

I pulled the intake off of the TBI unit.  Peaked inside and sure enough, the secondary injector that is in the primary injector location is drip, drip, dripping away.  I would assume that explains my hot restart issue... flooded!  Scott and I figure it was flooded, but he worked on a tune change (afterall he is assuming hardware is not at fault) and I thought just maybe my injectors were screwing me over.  I envy you all with a MPI and brand new injectors.

#20 Preludedude

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 03:14 PM

View PostMatt888, on 19 March 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

I pulled the intake off of the TBI unit.  Peaked inside and sure enough, the secondary injector that is in the primary injector location is drip, drip, dripping away.  I would assume that explains my hot restart issue... flooded!  Scott and I figure it was flooded, but he worked on a tune change (afterall he is assuming hardware is not at fault) and I thought just maybe my injectors were screwing me over.  I envy you all with a MPI and brand new injectors.

You should have bought new injectors to begin with I guess....After investing $ for a MS system, and other mods...Injectors should have been on your list...




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