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MAF-T GEN2 & GM MAF works great


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found a MAF-T GEN2 on ebay fairly cheap so i just had to get it. installed a 3"GM MAF and the translator a few days ago.

 

http://www.imagehostplus.com/v2/usr/1853/052310aL_004.jpg

 

http://www.imagehostplus.com/v2/usr/1853/052310aL_0051275036544076.jpg

 

the OEM wiring harness was hacked so i have been plagued with problems.

after having the quest for just about a year, it is becoming quite a joy to drive. last week i replaced about 3 feet of injector wiring,

installed a rising rate FPR and went back to the stock MAF and no longer experienced intermittent leaning out at all power levels.

figured it's now time to upgrade further.

 

finally ironing out most of the issues with drivebility, though i still have a problem with the ignition. i've heard of some coils not working correctly

on the starquest. i have the MSD Blaster 2 and now after installing the gen2, i can see that my RPMs are bouncing all over the place.

At idle RPMs jump from 200's to 800's - 900's - 500's - 1000's - 600's - 400's -700's and so on in no apparent order.

the tachometer doesn't show this and is pretty steady though the miss can be heard at idle and cruising. when accelerating it isn't very apparent

though i don't imagine it's much different at that time. the miss was also there before installing the GEN2 and GM MAF.

the car accelerates very well, even with my tune... and my first tuning experience.

i'm leaning towards wiring issues and thinking of changing to EDIS4.

 

anyone have similar problem with misfiring if that's what it's called?

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You need to read this. http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=5844&page=2 It discusses the maft 2 rpm signal problem and ways to fix it. A proven fix is to get the rpm signal on the tack side of the oblong box connected to the neg side of the coil that goes to the tack in the dash. Then down load the 16 cylinder upgrade for the gen 2.

 

Atta boy for trying new things. That what this site needs. To many do the same things we have always done, and get the same lack luster results.

 

Excellent tech support on the http://www.fullthrottletech.com/index.php forum.

Edited by StarquestRescue
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thanks, though i have already done my homework and have read over that more than once.

i taped into the white wire on the ECU, plug A pin #1 for tach signal which is the same one you describe just got it inside the car.

i also already have the starquest (16 cylinder) mg122.zip update and that's the setting i'm using. the RPM signal should be steady or more steady than all over the place.

without the starquest update wouldn't it just be 4x the normal tach reading?

i have also updated the MAF Translator Gen II to version 1.20 software. http://www.fullthrottletech.com/showthread.php?t=3724.

 

i figured tech support for the problem i'm having would be better from members here since it's more than likely a wiring or resistance issue and who to know better than starquestclub.com members. could i have a faulty knock box? the one that came on the car went bad last year - no spark - and i got another one from a member here which got the car running? i didn't know my ignition was misfiring, i thought the miss i was having was associated with the lean conditions that i had from injector wires, injector connections, resistive grounds: though now since the MAF-T is there, i can plainly see the wild RPM signal and it seems to go with the engines "cammed up" idle. a more trained ear would hear the miss though it isn't a steady one... most people think it's from a BIG cam. i do run the HKS cam but as i understand the car should idle much smoother.

 

the wires to the knock box were hacked from previous owner though i have reconnected, soldered, and shrink-wrapped them. i redid them a few days ago to make sure they were good.

BPR7HS spark plugs are gapped at .032 - could this be the cause?

 

i'll upload a video and some pics of my hacked wiring asap. i do have open high tension wires and may be where the problem lies.

 

 

how much of the factory ignition wiring is used when change to Ford EDIS4? can it be used with factory ECU?

i already have these parts to do the swap:

new Mookeeh’s crank pulley with the 36-1 wheel

new Accel #140018 - 4 tower coil pack

new Standard PC19 crank sensor

new crank sensor mount

new Magnecor Competition plug cables #45181

 

don't have the crank sensor pigtail yet

nor the Ford EDIS-4 module.

but i've read ESTurbo4 is using a MSD, the part number is 6302 http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=106411&st=0&gopid=1039143&&do=findComment&comment=1039143

will this setup work with factory ECU?

how will i get the correct ignition curve?

 

sorry for all the ?'s but i figure more than just me will benefit from this.

(noite) the MAF-T GenII is quite an upgrade. car runs and drives very well to be mis-firing or cross-firing.

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thanks, though i have already done my homework and have read over that more than once.

i taped into the white wire on the ECU, plug A pin #1 for tach signal which is the same one you describe just got it inside the car.

i also already have the starquest (16 cylinder) mg122.zip update and that's the setting i'm using. the RPM signal should be steady or more steady than all over the place.

without the starquest update wouldn't it just be 4x the normal tach reading?

i have also updated the MAF Translator Gen II to version 1.20 software. http://www.fullthrot...read.php?t=3724.

Have you read this one also? http://www.26liter.us/forum/index.php/topic,3805.0.html

 

The voltage in the rpm wire at the ecu is probably to high. Outlander got around this by picking up the rpm signal on the tack side of the oblong box that is connected to the neg side of the coil. This is some kind of rpm adapter.(i saw one wired into a mega sqirt box recently)that modifies the rpm signal to the dash tack. Or you could try an hks rpm adapter which is what i use for the rpm input to my innovate data logger.

 

I know nothing about edis, ask psu crash, he is good with that stuff.

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thanks for the help StarquestRescue!

sure haven't... i've clicked on the link you provided a few times before this and it only has taken me to the forums. i've now found the post after knowing to search Outlander's entries.

the link below goes directly to the topic.

 

My linkhttp://www.26liter.us/forum/index.php/topic,3805.msg30991.html#msg30991

 

now i thought we were getting somewhere, but i get the same wild signal when i hook up where Outlander did.

that oblong box is a resistor from the coil to the harness as i've read from a post by Indiana.

it's the metal thing with a white wire on one end and a black wire on the other going to the coil-.

 

could this resister be fried?

what value should it be?

mine reads 2.572 K ohms

 

i have also found my MPS isn't working smoothly and it seems to be opening the nose switch during decel. unless it's just the ISC flaky at higher temperature because it checks out fine when it's cool. time to warm up the car and recheck then maybe time to inspect and clean and lubricate the MPS/ISC.

 

just checked the coil and we have:

primary resistance - .8 ohms

secondary resistance - 5.91 K ohms

 

looks like the MSD Blaster2 Coil i bought last year may be at fault here.

 

will update post asap after replacing coil.

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You are the man! I have one and feel bad for procrastinating about hooking it up. The rpm wire was throwing me off and thought it wouldn't work without that hooked up. I do have to drive 70 miles just to go work on mine though so thats the other reason why :wacko:

 

As Starquest Rescue said thumbs up for going outside the box. Most usually- usually don't when it comes to this stuff.As for your problem I would try the tach-adapter. I have to ask did you wire this in at the maf connector or at the ecu?

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You are the man! I have one and feel bad for procrastinating about hooking it up. The rpm wire was throwing me off and thought it wouldn't work without that hooked up. I do have to drive 70 miles just to go work on mine though so thats the other reason why :wacko:

 

As Starquest Rescue said thumbs up for going outside the box. Most usually- usually don't when it comes to this stuff.As for your problem I would try the tach-adapter. I have to ask did you wire this in at the maf connector or at the ecu?

 

thanks man!

wow, i would go into DT's being that far away from my girl.

i understand the procrastinating... i'm also guilty of putting' things off... for the wrong reasons sometimes, though i went head first on this one.

it took me a day or so to figure out how to update the unit. hooking it up was the easy part.

 

i connected the RPM signal & TPS signal at the ECU.

the others were done at the MAF.

 

i learned earlier today that Outlander tried hooking his RPM signal at ECU and got a "stagnant" reading.

he ended up getting the correct signal on the tack side of the oblong box that is connected to the neg side of the coil.

i've tried both locations and get the same "wild" signal.

thought the cause was the MSD Blaster2 since the values aren't within standard readings for the starquest, but changed to one with proper values and no change.

thinking now it may be from spark plug gap too close.

i'm gonna re-gap em since i took advice from my son, BlowinUp54B's, and set mine at about .032

i'm using NGK BPR7HS - marnal head with 20G running about 16lbs boost.

what gap would you recommend? i was going to try around .040 - any advice is appreciated.

good advice appreciated more!

Edited by sellerfeller
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ya I don't like being that far from my girl, heck neither does she. Plus side I do get to see my best friend while I"m down there.

Anyway I also am running a TD06 20g. For plugs I used the same king NGK of course but went a heat range cooler.

I'm sure you've done this but I would also try checking the distributor.The vacuum advance on mine was shot, Vacuum lines, fuel injectors, tps, and mps sensors, also spark plug wires may have some resistance.

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i haven't tried running a heat range cooler yet.<br>replaced the distributor with a rebuilt one from rock auto a few weeks ago.<br>the vacuum advance came on the rebuilt unit and it does holds vacuum though <br>i did test drive with vac adv unhooked and it didn't really change anything.? i have a new vac advance from the old distributor i'll try.<br>have newer vacuum lines. new O2 sensor last year.<br>new fuel filters and upgraded to walbro255<br>upgraded to GM alternator - connections soldered and shrinkwrapped<br>used grinder and removed paint and grease on alternator mounting locations for good ground<br>installed grounding strap from back of alternator to block<br>installed grounding strap from block to intake manifold.<br>new main ground and power cables.<br>plug wires and plugs are new<br>distributor cap and rotor replaced with new a few months ago.<br>new ignition switch<br>have new trilogy fuel injectors<br>just have replaced about 3 feet of injector wiring and installed new clips again.<br>new injector resistor.<br>replaced knock box with good used unit when i was getting no spark last year.<br> tps is new and tests good.<br>mps/isc was replaced over a month ago with one from another member because i wasn't getting .91V at MPS and the nose switch was bad. the replacement was been working ok... just not very smoothly. could be from it trying to keep up with or offset the erratic rpm signal i'm experiencing.? i have unhooked the ISC because during decell the nose switch just has started open/close/open/close situation.<br>i'm planning on replacing the throttle body shaft seals today because they weren't in the set when i did a throttle body rebuild last year and they are leaking a little. will also test clean and lubricate the ISC/MPS and see if i can get it working more smoothly.<br>  <br>have serviced all the grounds inspected wiring and cleaned and cleaned connectors.<br>though my car IS missing this ground wire: <br><br>3: on the intake manifold, underneath the UFO shaped EGR valve. There are two bolts holding the EGR valve to the manifold; one will have a ground wire going to it.<br><br>what does this ground?<br>could this be causing the erratic rpm signal? Edited by sellerfeller
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i haven't tried running a heat range cooler yet.<br>replaced the distributor with a rebuilt one from rock auto a few weeks ago.<br>the vacuum advance came on the rebuilt unit and it does holds vacuum though <br>i did test drive with vac adv unhooked and it didn't really change anything.? i have a new vac advance from the old distributor i'll try.<br>have newer vacuum lines. new O2 sensor last year.<br>new fuel filters and upgraded to walbro255<br>upgraded to GM alternator - connections soldered and shrinkwrapped<br>used grinder and removed paint and grease on alternator mounting locations for good ground<br>installed grounding strap from back of alternator to block<br>installed grounding strap from block to intake manifold.<br>new main ground and power cables.<br>plug wires and plugs are new<br>distributor cap and rotor replaced with new a few months ago.<br>new ignition switch<br>have new trilogy fuel injectors<br>just have replaced about 3 feet of injector wiring and installed new clips again.<br>new injector resistor.<br>replaced knock box with good used unit when i was getting no spark last year.<br> tps is new and tests good.<br>mps/isc was replaced over a month ago with one from another member because i wasn't getting .91V at MPS and the nose switch was bad. the replacement was been working ok... just not very smoothly. could be from it trying to keep up with or offset the erratic rpm signal i'm experiencing.? i have unhooked the ISC because during decell the nose switch just has started open/close/open/close situation.<br>i'm planning on replacing the throttle body shaft seals today because they weren't in the set when i did a throttle body rebuild last year and they are leaking a little. will also test clean and lubricate the ISC/MPS and see if i can get it working more smoothly.<br>  <br>have serviced all the grounds inspected wiring and cleaned and cleaned connectors.<br>though my car IS missing this ground wire: <br><br>3: on the intake manifold, underneath the UFO shaped EGR valve. There are two bolts holding the EGR valve to the manifold; one will have a ground wire going to it.<br><br>what does this ground?<br>could this be causing the erratic rpm signal?

 

The ground could be the problem but I would think that if there were no ground at all than you wouldn't have a rpm signal at all. Things that loose ground usually tend not work at all which in your case would = no rpm signal. However I would think that resistance in a ground could cause this. The power still has a grounded path just harder to get to it, creating a unclear rpm signal. Also, I mentioned this to my buddy and thinks he remembers the rpm signal wire on the gen2 being able to hook up to one of the tps wires and give similar output to the rpm signal you would need. He's a dsm guru but its been awhile since hes worked on the starquests and 1g's. He referred this as the voltage increases when you step on the gas, well so does rpm voltage. I suppose they correlate in voltage values as throttle is applied or not applied. It made since to me but don't quote me or his advice. I suppose you could try it and see if it works, it is just one wire. I wish I had my starion here so I could try it out for you.

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hey va 88, send me your gen2...ill test it for ya hehehe :-p ..i knew i shouldnt have traded mine away and stuck with it.. lol

 

good stuff sellerfeller.

 

ohh yea, BPR7- spark plugs are a step colder then the stock ones i believe.

 

 

 

 

 

Daniel

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Dstar ill send it to you 2morrow. Na I think I'm gonna get a different turbo. I'm tired of thinking about how I'm gonna swap to a t3 turbo. Never have enough money to get the stuff I need to get it done. I wanna hook up the gen 2 bad
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dude dont get my hopes up like that. lol

 

that gen2 would almost literally be a plug and play deal for me too since i made my own wiring harnes for the maf-t.

 

it made everything so freakin simple to swaps stuff in and out.

 

 

 

 

ide be in the same boat with that t3 thing too lol., its just to much work for me because i lack so much tools, hardware, and room.. and its too much money to have someone do it for me..

 

 

 

 

 

Daniel

Edited by dstar88
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Hey I just installed mine and the wiring is correct, I verified it..But mine is sputtering whenever I rev and I tried the adjustments and still sputtering..It won't rev past 3k and if I hold throttle halfway it self revs from 2k to 3k back and forth..I am trying to tune with my narrowband for now and will install my wideband when it arrives in LA in 2-3 weeks..

 

What am I missing I don't have time to research as I am installing a ton of parts to save on shipping

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ok... so i had to take a week off. she was driving me nuts and i've been really busy with work.

was to the point of selling her or running her off a bridge! lucky my son let me borrow his bmw.

 

i ordered a distributor cap and rotor button with brass inserts... put em on tonight and the miss she had has disappeared for now.

i guess i should knock on wood or something.

 

so the screwy tach signal seen on the Gen2 ISN'T associated with the miss. woo-hoo!

i grounded the unit using the ground from the MAS connection.

i figure this may not be a good enough ground or either need to use a tach adapter.

if not the ground, which tach adapter would be the best to use? MSD 8920? MSD 8910? HKS?

 

before going further i need to figure out why the nose switch is open/close/open/close at random.

and need to rebuild throttle body again because shaft seals are leaking.

will inspect, test clean and lube the ISC/MPS and clean their connections.

hope to get around to it this weekend.

got a ticking lifter or two... i have 8 new ones that i need to also install.

i ran 5-20 oil mixed with a quart of mystery oil for a while to clean the internals... it's now time for the lifters.

exhaust manifold is cracked... got a good one that i need to port before install.

updates will continue soon.... the fire for my lady is back.

damn, i miss her!

 

 

BrazilBoy... what are your configuration settings?

could be your maf output setting.

mine works best set to "DSM 1G"

 

happy to see more of us are trying this!

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Per chrisviper, he

Used the digital tach output from the MSD or other aftermarket ignition box.
I am not 100% sure what that means as i do not see a wire marked digital out put on the msd wiring diagrams. After looking in to it, it seem that the tack adapters are used to convert the msd tack signal into some thing our ecus and tacks can use. so i am thinking try connecting the maft rpm wire to the msd white wire before the tack adapter.

 

I hope some one gets this nailed down. We should have figured this stuff out years ago. There is not that much wrong with the stock ecu that a stable properly tuned air flow signal will not fix.

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Ya'll are getting far with this. I'm going down Tuesday to wire mine in. Then getting a tach adapter on Friday. The only thing is I still can't run mine after I install it. I have the turbo and manifold off and my stock I/C pipes are in need of replacement. I'm sending the money for my manifold on Friday and my friend is sending me my turbo Tuesday :ph34r: , so I'd give it a couple more weeks before I'm up and going
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  • 2 months later...

I wired the rpm input on a base maft to the tack wire on my mallory 6al (yellow wire) and it seems to be reading the rpms ok. On an msd the equivalent would be the tack output terminal on the side of the msd 6al type box. http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedfiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/RPM_Timing_Controls/8952_instructions.pdf

 

If you do not have a msd type ignition you should be able to use a 10k potentiometer to reduce the voltage in the rpm wire going to the car ecu to what a maft2 or pro can read. This option would require the 16 cylinder setting update that is avaiable for the gens maft and pro unit.

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good info... ya, I may end up getting a mallory or msd unit.

I'm now running the GenII with the RPM signal disconnected,

using the TPS selection instead of the MAF/RPM for Load Source.

The AFR Tracking doesn't operate without the RPM signal as I understand so my tuning abilities, or lack of,

are being put to the test. I've got it running pretty good though.

 

Just did replace the lifters with a new set this afternoon. Motor sounded as if it were running on 3 cylinders most all the time... every now and then it would smooth out. One of the lifters was causing such a loud tapping that the timing was also being retarded. :blink:

She runs much better now.:D

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  • 1 year later...

I wired the rpm input on a base maft to the tack wire on my mallory 6al (yellow wire) and it seems to be reading the rpms ok. On an msd the equivalent would be the tack output terminal on the side of the msd 6al type box. http://www.msdigniti...nstructions.pdf

 

If you do not have a msd type ignition you should be able to use a 10k potentiometer to reduce the voltage in the rpm wire going to the car ecu to what a maft2 or pro can read. This option would require the 16 cylinder setting update that is avaiable for the gens maft and pro unit.

 

 

someone "unnamed" sold the red conquest i had this on. anyway, he recovered my wideband sensor last week so i have installed it in my 87 white "Beth Ann" Starion. I named her after my fist wife who just recently passed on from stupid cancer. welly anyway, also put in a 3" GM MAF, Gen2 MAF-T, and Wideband. The wiring was done as before... tapped into the RPM signal at the ECU and the RPM signal would vary as before.

Now I go on and install an MSD 6AL and MSD 8910 tach adapter while planning on using the tack output terminal on the side of the msd 6al box as suggested but i test it out before changing the RPM Signal Wire and the RPM's became steady but not correct. after changing the configuration settings from starquest to 4-cylinder the RPM's are right on. i've tuned on her with about $30 of fuel and she's running pretty darn good. now lets go burn some more petro... :)

Edited by sellerfeller
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Mine is wired in and running. My tach wire is taking signal straight from my MSD 6AL. too bad I spun a rod bearing yesterday...I was going to get it dyno tuned soon.

 

two main things I can't figure out:

 

If I blip the throttle, it well rev up and stay at that rpm even though my foot is off. If I rev it hard/longer and let off, it doesn't stick as bad. I don't know what adjustment that would be. I tried bumping the TPS decay super high but i did not help.

 

second: when cruising, and then I punch it to WOT, it dips lean (17) for a moment and then shoots up to 10-11 by the time boost builds. It's just jerky and a huge loss in power for that moment. What adjustment would that be? I tried bumping TPS enrich and it didn't seem to do much at all.

 

-Justin

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