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Roller Rocker problem


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#121 Caliber308

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Posted 10 November 2008 - 10:03 PM

QUOTE (jinx @ Nov 10 2008, 04:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
errr.... doesn't matter if it was designed for a riding mower. The quickest
member/street car detailed on this site gone 10.48 using the "lousy oe cam". 400
ft-lbs tq, without spray. Wanna explain this 'problem' you see ?


that would seem like more of a 'problem' to me, if ya gonna make claims.

The faster cars put forth that considerable effort testing parts to come up with the
numbers they do.... reverting to stock cam after direct comparisons, same setup.

"Feels great", "being happy", etc. is all good, but useful only to the beholder.
Can't be measured, and it has no bearing on a cars ability to accelerate.
Doesn't communicate anything at all to we 'observers' = useless. No yardstick.

Promoting any 'performance cam', should be done on its own merit (perf numbers).
To constantly "belittle"(or discredit) the oe cam, *despite its' proven capability*,
is plain ignorant imo.


Some of us are happy with our Roller set ups. If your happy with the stock cam that's fine too. Some of us that run Roller set ups don't need "numbers" to prove anything. Like I said before: "I don't need a dyno to tell me what I feel" and it's not "ignorance". We all know our own cars, what works for one engine set up and modifications might not be the best for another thumbsup.gif

CALIBER 308

Edited by Caliber308, 10 November 2008 - 10:05 PM.

87 ESI-R: J.E.s 8 to 1 .040 over, Tims roller cam, Roller rockers,Marnal Head(ported and polished) Scheider HD valvesprings, SS Valves,Zero bal,TDO5H 17 C, K.V., OVC HP, Turbo X/S RFL, Aeromotive FPR, 950/1150 injectors, Walbro , MAF-T, AEM UEGO, Summit dig. CD Ignition. box , Mallory 67k coil,D2s.





#122 Tim_C.

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 07:32 PM

Jinx:
Let's take it to PM's.

It would also be a big help if all of us stuck to posting our own experiences. Then we can speak for ourselves and share what worked for us and what didn't work in more detail because we know exactly what we did, when, etc.... There are always things people leave out of their story, so when we try to relay it, it gets even less accurate. If we participate in a thread, we can remember more about what we did, and add it to our tale of our experience instead of hearing a bunch of numbers with few details.
'87TSi .510Roller Cam, JE Forged, TS Rings & plateau honed walls, lightened rods, race prepped crank, mains line honed, balanced, 17C, 3"EX, 2"HardPipes, AlFly, rrfpr, 88trans, 3.90's w/posi plate mods, polyBushings, STSprings, KYBStruts, Camber Plates, CustomAlternator
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#123 jinx

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Posted 16 November 2008 - 11:52 PM

Being an ex GN owner, I've always viewed the 2.6 as my "baby GN". Virtually two
thirds of that motor... same breathing/revving handicap, but still makes decent tq.
My 'theory' from the getgo; get the 2.6 to seal well, throw mpi, boost & a good tune
at it & she'll rip - just like the gn, revs are totally unnecessary/optional.
eipquest proved that 'theory' to a T.
In my GN "stock appearing" class, back then 10sec full wt was a high water mark.
Cars with 'perf' cams were never among the quickest. Surprised ?

No time/money for 'guesswork' so my mods lie in the wake of *only those who have
thoroughly tested parts and their combo*. Nothing to prove, hide, gain or sell.
IF one is interested in extracting the most out of any collection of parts, back to
back testing is the ONLY way. Such effort weigh heavily with me. Rarity in SQ land.  

To denounce the stock cam... imo, is a slap in the face of those who've done far
more testing and have way faster cars (+oe cam) than any of us. -Hence my input-
The quicker or more powerful cars are never built by "feel".

Fine if that's your guiding star, but realize that 'feel' won't cut it for some.
Take a 400hp mid 12sec street turbo 4 for a spin, if I told u its 500hp & ran hi
10s. You'd probably agree.
Install a 4.50 gear, it'll 'feel like a missile. Put a clock on it, get your horrors.
That's how deceiving, accurate and useful "feel" is.

My experience still limited to the 'crappy' oe cam. Will easily surpass my goals
with the 60-1 & mpi. 1st major move was to put another 2.6(14g/tbi) in a corolla.
As expected, my 16g/tbi SQ is a joke by comparison... and yes, solely by 'feel'.
(...but cam is nothing like a substantial weight reducton, 30psi, a 100 shot, etc.)
Sticking to 'proven' mods that yeild definitive measurable gains.... a roller conversion, for me, would be like lookin' for luv in all the wrong places.
If I do, mech cam will be the last single item I change. Could even be one of yours should a combo spit out some appealing numbers.... who knows

#124 Shelby

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 08:25 AM

jinx why do you continuely harp on drag raceing when several have state'd that more hp was not what they were looking for ,
ask Chip why he is not planing on  swaping out his roller even tho is has proven to be a lower performer then the 292 he had in the engine last  dyno
if you were to find me 3 guys that  said their 10sec 1/4 car was fun to drive on the street  i'd be realy amaze'd, cause  a 10 sec 1/4 car is NOT fun to drive as a daily  driver , where as a 13 sec car can be a blast  to drive and even a 14 sec  can be  fun and  not   kill your pocket  book every time you  take a  ride
for ever 1 drag racer on here you'l find 99 guys that just want a fun car that can still get 30 mpg if driven with a little restrant
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#125 PDX87Starion

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 01:39 PM

QUOTE (Shelby @ Nov 17 2008, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
if you were to find me 3 guys that  said their 10sec 1/4 car was fun to drive on the street  i'd be realy amaze'd, cause  a 10 sec 1/4 car is NOT fun to drive as a daily  driver , where as a 13 sec car can be a blast  to drive and even a 14 sec  can be  fun and  not   kill your pocket  book every time you  take a  ride
for ever 1 drag racer on here you'l find 99 guys that just want a fun car that can still get 30 mpg if driven with a little restrant


If I'm not mistaken you just made a perfect point of why to keep the stock cam. wink.gif
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#126 Shelby

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 02:04 PM

so if you could get a roller that perform'd  same as the sliper cam you'd not change it .
every change made in auto engine did not  spacifly  relate to more power ,but any thing that makes the  engine turn  easier and  with less power need'd just to turn it  relates to  more useable power and  better driveability and possibily more mpg
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#127 jinx

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:35 PM

I made a *clear* distinction between building a 'quick' car and one for 'feel'.
You musta missed that. wink.gif Never suggested one or the other to anybody.

"10sec" was ONLY introduced in this thread with respect to oe cam perf ability.
Negative remarks prompted my comments. Does that deem one a drag racer perse ?

A full wt 10sec GN has no downside FYI. The scary acceleration, if/when used on the
street is a bit over the top for me tho.
10sec potential is only realized when "set on kill"... ie. Tires (slicks or ET
street), boost wound up, fuel..... not your daily driver trim, where they can
knock down 30+mph, have excellent response & plaster u in the seatback at will.

Another example; that puny 1.8 in the video I posted was only @23psi street trim.
Does it look like fun ? Ran 11.2 with old setup and 80hp less.

A 10sec, reliable, fun street car, on a reasonable budget is possible.... strictly depends on how clever the setup.

Nothing in my 2.6 combo degrades my drivability, response, mileage or fun factor.  
Oe smooth idle, torquey, quick spin up, soft clutch. Why wouldn't it be a blast ?
We'll see how quick this "budget daily driver" goes... against conventional wisdom

well now that you bring it up,
eipquest oe cam tq/driveability, responsive T04B comparable in size to a 20G and deserts' ebay T-70 mpi setup that recently reported 33mpg.
What exactly makes it no longer a fun street car ?

#128 Caliber308

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 09:21 PM

This thread is getting old. If you think your car runs better with the stock slipper cam FINE. If you have a roller set up and you like the way your car runs FINE. Lets put a end to this madness wink.gif

CALIBER 308
87 ESI-R: J.E.s 8 to 1 .040 over, Tims roller cam, Roller rockers,Marnal Head(ported and polished) Scheider HD valvesprings, SS Valves,Zero bal,TDO5H 17 C, K.V., OVC HP, Turbo X/S RFL, Aeromotive FPR, 950/1150 injectors, Walbro , MAF-T, AEM UEGO, Summit dig. CD Ignition. box , Mallory 67k coil,D2s.

#129 mstieg

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 06:07 PM

Dug up this old debate to resolve if I've found the correct Magan roller rockers needed to go with my Magna cam.  Got one or 2 sqeakin'.

http://www.starquest... rockers&st=20



Are all Magna rockers the same?  Are all Magnas?  see the link Please & Thanks.
Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
Now Done:  7.5:1 .35 Wiseco rebuild w/ crank scraper; 274 Magna roller cam & 1.55 rockers; mod port AMC head; 1mm>valves; Innovate WB; GM alt/rewired; 3" 240 alum radiator, elec fans; BMW X5 oil separator exh. crankcase vent; gas tank renewed; D2s; sway/strut bars; LT1 T56 clutch & trans swap w/ Fidanza; 4.22 rear; 265 Kumos on SHP rears; new steering pump/box/lines & coupler fix: http://www.starquest...howtopic=139558; full dash/console rewire - Autometer, push start, etc.
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#130 pcristquester

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 07:42 PM

I have 4-6 rollers you can have for shipping and a couple bucks. Just pulled 4 from the intake of my old head
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