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NO HONDA SWAPS


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#121 jinx

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 02:42 AM

u really think anyone gives a sheet about whatever you choose to plug in ? Get real
For years fanboys been hypein up honda motors here, yet..... where are these "great" swaps ? Count em.

And no, the starquest is not "missin out on anything performancewise". Absolute nonsense
Lotsa 4G63 starquests out there (some passed thru SQC early 2000s). What level of performance hasn't the 4G achieved ?

Just think... you too can end up with a piece of crap like this:  https://www.youtube....h?v=yR4a7On7B3k
Miata guys say that cost em $8-9000. Starquest ~800 pounds heavier. Now go get you some of the 'greatness' :P





#122 Laodicea

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 12:22 PM

Oh boy..
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#123 Pyre78

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Posted 03 July 2019 - 09:53 AM

View Postjinx, on 18 April 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

u really think anyone gives a sheet about whatever you choose to plug in ? Get real
For years fanboys been hypein up honda motors here, yet..... where are these "great" swaps ? Count em.

And no, the starquest is not "missin out on anything performancewise". Absolute nonsense
Lotsa 4G63 starquests out there (some passed thru SQC early 2000s). What level of performance hasn't the 4G achieved ?

Just think... you too can end up with a piece of crap like this:  https://www.youtube....h?v=yR4a7On7B3k
Miata guys say that cost em $8-9000. Starquest ~800 pounds heavier. Now go get you some of the 'greatness' :P

It absolutely is.
You can rag on the K24 all you want but when you look at the numbers, in naturally aspirated applications it makes 41 horsepower than a 4G63. The only advantage that a 4G63 would have over a K24 is that it's an all wheel drive engine, but the 4G54 (what the Starion's come with) doesn't have that benefit.

Even whenever you look at boosted applications and seeing what other forums say in regards to what they can take boosted in a stock form the K24 still has the edge by about 30 horsepower (K24, stock internals is good for 427 horsepower VS The 4G63's 400)

And then you can easily couple that with the fact that it's easy to get a running K24 with a transmission for less than what you would pay for a 4G63.

The 4G63 is a really cool engine, don't get me wrong, but I don't really feel like that should be the main point of contention when debating whether or not a K series swap would be practical in a Starion.

Additionally, we haven't even begin to talk about the Honda F-Series, which is the I4 that came in the Honda S2K.
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#124 ucw458

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Posted 04 July 2019 - 08:31 AM

First off I will say I don't really care what you swap into your car.  It's your car not mine do what you want.  But,.... some of the swaps are getting a little old.  Not just in SQs.  Take the LS swap for example.  Yes I agree it's a good engine but everyone is doing an LS swap.  There's a guy on youtube putting an LS into a Lambo.  Geez enough already.


I would like to see some more interesting swaps.  I've only seen one 7G64 swap and a couple of 1UZ swaps.  How about a diesel swap?  Not many of those around.  My point is try something new.  I'm not a fan of hondas but if you think you can do a powerful honda swap then go for it.  At least it will be something different.
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#125 jinx

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Posted 04 July 2019 - 01:54 PM

Pyre78
600hp from a stock 4g63. boom! http://www.dsmtuners...06-awhp.490819/
So there, your info and your reasoning is wack.

Peak hp means nothing for a street car. Typical of u 'honda-heads'.
If you're so into "numbers", go count the honda F and K-series starquest swaps. Then ask yourself why???

Check out all those amazing SQ swaps here, performed by smart competent guys... then ask yourself:
Do you really think you can or have figured out something they couldn't ? Heck no

4G needs no introduction and has been to the mouintain top. A debate is dumb. Nothing to sell here
Just keep lieing to and convincing yourself, then scrap up the coin, go swap in your F or K. Simple. No?

#126 TexasQuest

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Posted 04 July 2019 - 03:04 PM

The Honda K-engine really is a great motor but it's apples to oranges comparing it to a Mitsubishi Sirius engine. I would expect an engine 20+ years newer to have almost 50% more power, even in naturally aspirated form.
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View PostJohnnyWadd, on 04 March 2010 - 10:01 PM, said:

my shaft was big i dont know what your talking about.

<SOS> http://sosmanuals.minagera.org/
<SQ Garage> http://www.starquestgarage.com/

#127 Pyre78

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 01:34 PM

View Postjinx, on 04 July 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

Pyre78
600hp from a stock 4g63. boom! http://www.dsmtuners...06-awhp.490819/
So there, your info and your reasoning is wack.
Took me 3 clicks to find that the motor you're posting about died 7 months after that post. Which is why I specifically mentioned the reliable horsepower numbers.  :)

View Postjinx, on 04 July 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

Peak hp means nothing for a street car. Typical of u 'honda-heads'.
If we're not comparing stock horsepower numbers, or peak horsepower numbers, or how much it'll take to get you there, then what are you using to rate these engines, dude?

View Postjinx, on 04 July 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

If you're so into "numbers", go count the honda F and K-series starquest swaps. Then ask yourself why???
Have you stopped and considered the fact that we're currently debating in a thread, posted and pinned by a moderator, at literally the top of the engine swapping section of the go-to website for Starion / Conquest information,that states that if you post about a Honda swap you'll be banned? You don't honestly think that this plays a role on why this number is so low? Why do you think I'm having this discussion?
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#128 Pyre78

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Posted 13 July 2019 - 01:48 PM

View Postucw458, on 04 July 2019 - 08:31 AM, said:

First off I will say I don't really care what you swap into your car.  It's your car not mine do what you want.  But,.... some of the swaps are getting a little old.  Not just in SQs.  Take the LS swap for example.  Yes I agree it's a good engine but everyone is doing an LS swap.  There's a guy on youtube putting an LS into a Lambo.  Geez enough already.


I would like to see some more interesting swaps.  I've only seen one 7G64 swap and a couple of 1UZ swaps.  How about a diesel swap?  Not many of those around.  My point is try something new.  I'm not a fan of hondas but if you think you can do a powerful honda swap then go for it.  At least it will be something different.
My biggest issue with the current posted about swaps is that I feel like a lot of them lose the intended purpose of the car. So many of the Mitsubishi and Chrysler ads about the Starquest boasted about how good the car maneuvers and while the Ford 5.0 / Chevy LS are cool, quick, and reliable engines, I'm trying to find something that wouldn't upset the balance of the vehicle too much while also keeping it a boosted 4 cylinder. Which is why I'm surprised this sort of swap hasn't been looked at more before / is so badly shunned.
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#129 jinx

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Posted 14 July 2019 - 01:06 PM

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Took me 3 clicks to find that the motor you're posting about died 7 months after that post. Which is why I specifically mentioned the reliable horsepower numbers
and why did you purposely leave out his remark about how the crappy tune, needed lotsa work. He was expecting 5, made 600. Ya, 4G sux.
A few clicks would have shown u numerous hi powered stock 4Gs live a life way into the 500s. But noooo, let's pull 400 outta my tail, right ?

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If we're not comparing stock horsepower numbers, or peak horsepower numbers, or how much it'll take to get you there, then what are you using to rate these engines, dude?
Ummmm I dunno.... maybe past performances, from mild to wild ?
Long story short: A single 4G has chopped off the heads of a field of monster 2JZs.... and you Wanna explain some "honda edge" ?

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Have you stopped and considered the fact that we're currently debating in a thread, posted and pinned by a moderator, at literally the top of the engine swapping section of the go-to website for Starion / Conquest information,that states that if you post about a Honda swap you'll be banned? You don't honestly think that this plays a role on why this number is so low? Why do you think I'm having this discussion?
Most starquest owners are NOT starquestclub members. You truely are lost, wondering around lala-land.
Again... stop fartin around making silly excuses. Now go count all those honda H/F-SQ swaps.... then try again, explain why.

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it's easy to get a running K24 with a transmission for less than what you would pay for a 4G63.
show us where u can grab a K24 bolted up to a RWD gearbox for $500(thats what I paid for my last driver/donor FWD DSM years ago)
Miata guys say ~$8-9000 for that NON-boosted K24 swap:   https://www.youtube....h?v=yR4a7On7B3k
In fact, I DARE you to do that to your street starquest. Greatness.... my arse :D

#130 Pyre78

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 04:53 PM

View Postjinx, on 14 July 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

show us where u can grab a K24 bolted up to a RWD gearbox for $500(thats what I paid for my last driver/donor FWD DSM years ago)
Alright, but I'll need some more information to make sure we're on the same sorta playing field here, dude.
First of all, how many years ago exactly? There's quite a few variables that play into this and I feel like that sort of information is vital.
And then I need you to specify. You keep just saying 4G, but which engine exactly are you referring to? They vary quite a bit, but I assume you're talking about the 4G63? And what car did you use as this donor?
Additionally, where are you getting this $9,000 figure from?
On top of that, I don't especially see the point in doing this challenge if the comparison I'm needing to go up against it purely anecdotal. For example, I got a D16A6 with a Z6 head for free the other day, but it wouldn't make sense to claim that everyone can build a car with a D16A6 block w/ a Z6 head for free, right?


View Postjinx, on 14 July 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Long story short: A single 4G has chopped off the heads of a field of monster 2JZs.... and you Wanna explain some "honda edge" ?
It all comes from purpose, doesn't it? I'm not looking for something to just drive in a straight line like a high boost 2JZ or an LS. I'm looking for something to be competitive with regarding AutoX and Touge. If I was looking for raw horsepower numbers then I would have just twin turbo'd an LS and put that in my Starion. But a K series engine has a good amount of power to build on and keeps the weight distribution of the car about the same. Additionally, it's known to be a reliable engine.

I'll go ahead and try your challenge though, if you'd like. The Honda K series really is an inexpensive platform all together. But I will need you to answer the questions above.

Edited by Pyre78, 15 July 2019 - 04:57 PM.

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#131 jinx

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 11:29 AM

bought a $500 1991 plymouth Laser maybe ~7-8 years back. At the time I wasn't looking for a DSM, it found me
Numerous 4G63 starquests exist for a reason, but you'll probably never get it... especially with those honda-blinders on
You can build a hella impresive stock 4G63 with a $200 holset turbo... a fat torque curve, sticks u hard in the seat throughout the gears

For instant torque and strong through the rev range: 1UZ.  A 4.0L weighs the same as the all alloy 2.0L SR20, and its inexpensive like many.
With the right exhaust, u get nice mellow V8 music (not that pos horrible sounding K garbage)
UZ + cheap muffler:   https://www.youtube....h?v=ua7ZTOJ9sYI  

Dunno anything about setting up a car for AutoX and Touge competiton. If you seen K- or F-series swaps winning, then go for it
You don't need SQC approval.... so what are you waiting for ??
If the K is all that, let it stand on it's own and build it's legacy... as the 4G has
You're only wasting time barking up the 4G63 tree.... that horse is too far outta the gate imo

folks who have already completed RWD K-series conversions, say $8-10,000..... but hey, what do they know ?
https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=2832     https://grassrootsmo...rticles/kmiata/

#132 Pyre78

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:34 AM

View Postjinx, on 16 July 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

Dunno anything about setting up a car for AutoX and Touge competiton. If you seen K- or F-series swaps winning, then go for it
You don't need SQC approval.... so what are you waiting for ??
If the K is all that, let it stand on it's own and build it's legacy... as the 4G has
You're only wasting time barking up the 4G63 tree.... that horse is too far outta the gate imo
It isn't so much what the engine does to the car as much as it's what it doesn't do to it, dude.
I'm aware that in terms of horsepower potential a lot of the time Honda engines aren't the way to go.But the K and F series are very similar in weights when compared to a Mitsubishi Sirius engine and I'm trying to keep the car in such a way so that it can handle when I need it to.

AutoX is hardly ever about power. I even use to throw my '72 Maverick around a course making 110 horse or so. But I'm trying my hardest not to make the car too front heavy, which is why something like a small block Ford / Chevy or an LS wouldn't work so well for me.

But in my eyes, the Starion was always a car that was built to handle. That's why on advertisements for it they have the specs for the car showing how well it did in a skid pad, or how quickly it can go through the slalom. I'm trying to keep that original idea with mine.

View Postjinx, on 16 July 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

Numerous 4G63 starquests exist for a reason, but you'll probably never get it... especially with those honda-blinders on

View Postjinx, on 16 July 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

You don't need SQC approval.... so what are you waiting for ??

I'm not here to attempt to degrade other swaps, or to claim that the K series is the best option out there; especially for what it seems most dudes are using their Starion's for. But, I'm trying to at least convince dudes that for other applications it's a swap that is at least worth taking a look at, and definitely  not something that should warrant a ban from the club forums. Part of the reason why I'm here pleading my case is that generally Starquests aren't that well known of a car. I would pull up to meets in mine and people would have no idea what I was driving, and that with such a small group of cars out there it's important to have a hub for all sorts of knowledge on these cars, and that by forcing information to specifically be excluded from probably one of if not only hubs based around Starquests, you're doing a disservice to people who own these cars and might want to go a different route with them.

I'm not trying to make everyone Honda swap a Starion, but for those who want to I want the information on how to do so be available to them.

Edited by Pyre78, 17 July 2019 - 09:36 AM.

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#133 jinx

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:44 PM

Disservice ? pppft. rwd K info is in abundance. Who or what is stopping you(or RAlph, Bob, Susan) ?
You stubbornly continue to blame SQC for some worldwide ban on honda swaps, instead of facing reality.
That, along with this honda K 'greatness', exists only in your head
Why assume folks haven't considered honda K, and then realize it's a poor choice vs the options. Impossible, right ?
If K rwd costs even half what miata guys say... that would make that option, plain stupid imo

You want to address the starquest identity crisis by swapping in a honda powerplant ? Seriously ?
Newsflash: If it aint got a mitsu 4 underhood, you don't have "one of these cars".... a mongrel at best. Make up your mind
Look, just build your car and enjoy life. Drop all that baggage, evnveloping yourself in all the drama, guy

#134 SFBMX88

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 12:20 AM

Finally, a doer.  Just something I saw on Instagram.  Hopefully he gets it done.

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#135 Turbo Cary

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 07:38 AM

Numerous people have done K or J series swaps to their Miatas and loved the results. A K24 swapped Conquest with boost will make excellent power and guess what? If it blows up K series are a dime a dozen now and they are cheap. You can get a K20/K24 for less than a grand. The K series even puts out more power than the Sirius engine does and gets twice the fuel economy.

Screw a 4g63. Unless you're going for the last few year ranfe 4g63 they aren't worth it. I rather have rotary problems than Mitsubishi issues. I loved my conquest but since going on to a more common platform I have done more with less money.

Whoever swaps a Honda engine into their quest is a boss. It is their car and they can do what they please with it. If someone swapped in a 1.4 turbo from a Chevy Cruze I'd praise them on it just because of the ingenuity and hard work. In this day and age bashing people over a swap is dumb. Give them credit for being a pioneer in the swap field.

#136 jinx

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:05 PM

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Numerous people have done K or J series swaps to their Miatas and loved the results
and 100 times that number have loved modding their TBI starquests. Whats your point ?

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A K24 swapped Conquest with boost will make excellent power and guess what? If it blows up K series are a dime a dozen now and they are
cheap. You can get a K20/K24 for less than a grand. The K series even puts out more power than the Sirius engine does and gets twice the fuel
economy
4G HAS made excellent power & tq. So what, we need "special K" now ?
A 400hp K puts out more power than a 400hp 4G, while getting 60-70mpg, then ? U MUST be retatded

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Screw a 4g63. Unless you're going for the last few year ranfe 4g63 they aren't worth it.
Hmmmmm, let's see....400hp/400tq on pump gas.... mid 30s mpg.... excellent turbo response/$200 holset, all stock 1st gen 4G63
bump up to:  reground cheap cams, ~33psi & near stock auto.... 3000+ pound daily driver ET a blistering 10.1sec!
Who would want that ? Yessir, screw a 4G... thats exactly what hundreds of folks did... right into their engine bay
"Not worth it" says this wise guy who pumps money into a mazda 1.6, while a 4G has amassed a worldwide cult following... still alive today
Whatever you're on, I hope the damage is reversible :D

#137 Turbo Cary

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 05:04 AM

View Postjinx, on 18 July 2019 - 10:05 PM, said:

"Not worth it" says this wise guy who pumps money into a mazda 1.6, while a 4G has amassed a worldwide cult following... still alive today
Whatever you're on, I hope the damage is reversible :D

I happen to have a turbo 1.6 and a turbo 1.8, plus a Mazdaspeed 3 hatch. I also have a Silvertop 20 Valve swapped Celica what's your point? My miata my not make as much power as the Conquest did but it has been far more reliable and better on gas. I get around 25-28 mpg and have a wide array of parts I have access to.

As for the K series, it is a better design than the Sirius motor. You're talking almost 30 years of technology difference. Same goes with the 4G. They are old boat anchors. Plenty of engines now are great options to swap in the conquest. Lot's of people copy others by doing 2J and LS swaps but there are a select few who think outside the box.

I hope that swap posted above gets finished. Props to the guy doing it.

#138 jinx

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 08:08 PM

Quote

I happen to have a turbo 1.6 and a turbo 1.8, plus a Mazdaspeed 3 hatch. I also have a Silvertop 20 Valve swapped Celica what's your point?
those mazda 1.6/1.8 motors are 80s tech. 20V is merely toyotas' 4AG last dance. Boosted or cammed up, the old 16v mule still dominates.
Take any one of your motors that are "worth it", fork a shovel of cash into them.... a tired old 1990 STOCK 4G will smash its head in. Proven!
In addition, I gave u a fine 4G example that" makes way more power + considerably better mileage, hauling around substabtially more weight (almost 1.5 times a miata)..... yep, definitely a boat anchor

Yet the best u can do is whine about 30 year technology difference, while remaining TOTALLY IGNORANT to performance level attained.
You stress, "think outside the box". In most cases, ZERO thought is involved. Just do it to be different. Select few my arse
Its far more important to have the ability to THINK, period.... instead of all these assinine remarks.

Thinking yields these type of results. For years, this has been a most impressive street car. Show quality build. ETs outraegous 9.1sec!!!
He didn't listen to A-holes telling him swap in newer better honda tech. Original 1.8/2-valve 'boat anchor' + 3-speed auto
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#139 Ressurect1on

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 09:29 PM

i want the challenge of keeping the original motor, surprised after all these years, not one person made a 12 o clock roller rocker for these cars so could run any duration slipper cam wanted

#140 jinx

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 06:37 PM

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surprised after all these years, not one person made a 12 o clock roller rocker for these cars so could run any duration slipper cam wanted
maybe because there was never any need for it ?
You'd still be stuck with the same old cam grind quality issues and lack of r & d, that has plagued the 2.6 for years
G54b has proven it can 'rip' with the "right cam". Also, a handful dyno'd ~400hp/400tq on stock cam
What r u chasing with your 2.6 ? (maybe start another thread somewhere ?)




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