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loosing Rpm signal and backfiring


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#21 Amonje123

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 04:10 PM

OK now we're getting somewhere I gapped plugs at 35 that what I had them gapped at with my 18g on 20psi and it was fine. Result was dam car idles and drives way better. I can cruise a lot better don't think it's misfiring anymore. Nice and Smooth.

But here's the bigger issue the car breaks apart at 4k now. Even worse then before. I can't even get the car passed 4500. Ooo and the gap on the plugs were 20 not 25 so there were real small.

OK so I'm pretty sure we have narrowed this down to an ignition problem. So now why am I losing the spark. I'm not running enough boost to blow out the spark.







#22 scott87star

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 09:28 AM

Have you checked TDC for accuracy?  The mark on the crank pulley?  If it free revs fine but breaks up under load it could be your timing is way off.
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#23 Amonje123

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 09:57 AM

Yes I have check. It is spot on. Setting up the crank was easy. But I will take the mk1 wheel off and put the stock one back on and make sure they are marked correctly.

Will post back in 1hr....

#24 Amonje123

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 12:32 PM

OK so I pulled my rad fans out. Put engine TDC to where I marked the Mk1 pulley. Pulled it off and slid the stock pulley on TDC on both are perfect exact same spot.

Put the Mk1 wheel back on. Bam! Still on TDC mark. Made sure missing tooth in wheel was 9 teeth ahead. That is also correct. A

And like you said Scott put Trigger Angle at 80 don't count the missing tooth which I did. That puts my engine at 15Btdc with timing light and 10 on the Ecu. I put trigger angle at 75 and I get 10 on timing light and 10 on Ecu so where good there.

I have one of those good timing lights with the dial on the back to advance the timing and move the light. So I can turn the dial anywhere from 1 to 100. And make the light go on The TDC mark. It's pretty cool I love how these style work. So at 2500rpm I have it at 25 on ecu. I turn my dial on timing light to 25 and hold engine at 2500rpm I got the timing mark right at Tdc. I Rev engine to 4k and hold, ecu timing is set 35 there. Turned dial on timing light to 35 and got the light blinking right on the Tdc mark. So I assume the ecu is set right.

But the funny thing is I don't know since my timing light is 15yrs old or something. Cause when holding the engine at a constant Rpm the timing skips a few blinks  every now and again. And like before if I snap the throttle the light goes away and comes back.

So now that I'm riding this and idea came up. I'm going to hookup the timing light to my Bros TransAm and see if the light skips blinks.

So I know the timing is set correctly at idle and will advance when I Rev it up. But I don't know what the timing is doing under boost.

Mmmm what am I missing here??



#25 scott87star

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 03:30 PM

That all sounds right except for the timing skipping once in awhile, that would make it run like crap under load.  The only explanation is sync loss but I didn't see any in your last log, was it running like crap in that log?
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#26 Amonje123

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 04:54 PM

The thing is I just sent you a log of the car revving it up I wasn't driving it. I can send you a data log while driving the car. I could do a 3rd gear pull and send it.



#27 scott87star

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 06:08 PM

Send it.
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#28 Chad

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:10 PM

what kind of coils are you using?  stock OEM coil packs for some fords are famous for getting weak and causing the exact same behavior, they idle and cruise fine, but can't pass a spark across the gap under load so it breaks up above 3K and under moderate load.

#29 Amonje123

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:30 PM

Dam I think I'm using those stock ford coils. I'm using 4 of them. I was kinda thinking that these old coils might be faulty.

Sending a data log to Scott in the morning and we will go from there.

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 10:45 PM

I had a work truck  (2001 F350) with them, it went through 5 of them in 2 years.  new ones are cheap.  Seemed to happen at random.  You could tell which one was bad by the plugs, but you probably don't have enough miles to be sure.

#31 Amonje123

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 03:46 PM

OK cool good to know. I sent a data log to Scott well see what's going down. Thanks for all the replies. It's greatly appreciated.

#32 Amonje123

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 07:59 AM

OK so I figured out the problem. So on the ignition system you have Spark A Spark B Spark C Spark D on the ecu side and also on the coil side. So total of 8 wires.

I'm running wasted spark so i had Spark A hooked up to coil 1 and 4 Spark B hooked up to coil 1 and 3. So I was using 4 wires out of the 8 wires. Spark C and D were hooked up to nothing.

That is not the right way they hook up. If running wasted spark all 8 wires still have to be used. Have to pair together Spark A and Spark C also Spark B spark D together. So turn all 8 wires into 4 wires bassically.

I did this and miss fires went away. Car pulls all the way to 6k now. Turned the boost up to 15psi and still pulls to redline. No miss fires while driving around. It's good to go.

Thanks for all the replays guys. Now I can go onto the next step. My injectors don't turn off when I let go of the gas. Might make a new thread for that but car is running great tho.

Edited by Amonje123, 04 May 2018 - 07:59 AM.


#33 speedyquest

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 08:03 AM

Glad you got it figured out man, and thanks for responding with what was wrong so in the future people can use this info too.

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#34 scott87star

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 08:58 AM

Just so people don't think I ignored him we were working together to find and fix that issue.  He had my COP system that was set up for fully sequential and he changed it back to waste spark mode.  Totally understandable why he wired it the way he did, that is how injectors are wired in batch fire mode.  Unfortunately that same wiring scheme doesn't work for coils.
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#35 speedyquest

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 09:11 AM

I don't think anyone thought you were ignoring him Scott, at least that isn't what thought anyway.

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#36 Amonje123

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:17 PM

Yeah Scott helped me a lot these last few months idk even know how long its been,he has been very helpful. He can explain things way better then the instructions. There confusion af.

So my next question is why doesn't it work without Spark C And D hooked up? Can the 2 wires not support 4 coils? I'm wondering how that Quad Spark box even works and why do I even need it. Why can't it connect coils straight to the ecu on the ground side?

I know how it wires up now. But knowing how and why things work will give me a way better understanding.

Edited by Amonje123, 04 May 2018 - 02:01 PM.


#37 Amonje123

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:03 PM

OK going to vent for a min. Idk what the heck keeps going wrong with my car. But I hop in it tonight to take it to my friends place to chill. Fire it up and misfiring.

Cylinder #2 and #3 aren't firing now. Check power to the coils I have power going in and out. Look at connectors. Everything seems tight.

Idk why this dam car keeps doing this to me. It's been 1 year 1 month doing this build. Should of been done in like 6 months. But no!!! I have problem after problem and it never ends!!!

Now I wonder what my problem is. I'm getting tired of driving my piece of s*** Nissan everywhere I go. My racecar is my daily driver that what I should be rolling in and feeling great.

So now I'm all pussed off after feeling so good yesterday telling all my friends and Co workers that my car is finally running great and ready to race. Then this crap.

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I just want to scream out right now. Wait I already did. This car is the only thing in my life that is stressing me out. I don't care about anything else except my car. Without my car I can never be happy.

I'm just wondering what went wrong from yesterday to today. I didn't touch anything. I'll look at it this weekend again and see what the problem is now......

#38 croquest87

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 10:03 AM

Sometimes it helps to walk away from the car for a week or so to refresh your mind and reduce stress level. I have learned if doing things that iritate the s... out of me and it doesn't work after so many tries walk away for a while and it will get figured out after.Rushing things sets you back further.

#39 scott87star

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:01 PM

Quote

So my next question is why doesn't it work without Spark C And D hooked up? Can the 2 wires not support 4 coils? I'm wondering how that Quad Spark box even works and why do I even need it. Why can't it connect coils straight to the ecu on the ground side?


There are four parallel circuits in the Quadspark, four IGBT (Internally Gated Bipolar Transistor), each coil needs its own transistor to operate correctly.  I'm guessing that if you ran the dwell higher you could possibly charge two coils off one transistor but then you would risk overheating a coil.  Coils are different than injectors, the current flow is far higher and the coil drivers in the ECU are not rated for that much current, they are rated for logic level current (mA, not Amps).  You can trigger multiple IGBT's from a single Spark output.
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#40 Amonje123

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:11 AM

OK so I took a break from the car. So #2 #3 coils aren't firing. Swap them around with #1 #4 and now have spark on 2 3 none on 1 4. So I went and got a couple new coils and car is back up and running.

Think I found what burn out the coil too. I've taken these coils on and off so many times I pinched a wire between the coil bracket and valve cover.

I fix the wire and now I'm back up and running. It's always the simplest things man lol.


Edited by Amonje123, 17 May 2018 - 08:13 AM.





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