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Bands and drums


Alan
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Rebuilding a 89 auto. What is best place to get bands and drums? Both shot. I'll post the rebulid later with pic's for the part time mechanic like me. Any pro's chime in please. Thanks, Alan

 

Huntsville, AL

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For bands contact MikeMeyerhoff on here, he has kevlar ones and are way better then stock. He also tracked down a part number for some HD clutches too. I just rebuild mine last year, wasnt to bad at all.
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Thank you sir , I just did that. I'll post pic's of how I did this once I figure out how. Been doing helicopter maintenance for the Army since '81 these auto's are new to me. Glad I have the FSM and this forum.

 

Alan

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ehh, dont psych yourself out. It was surprisingly simple. My one piece of advice is do not disassemble untill all your parts are in your posession. Everything runs righ down one axis but many of the shims and bearings only go one way. Fortunatly for me I had another tranny here to disassemble when I got into a confusing crunch. Also while this is apart might as well freshen up your valve body to crispen up those shifts. A nice running auto conquest is a fun car, they dont get the respect they deserve since so many of them are thrashed from the years of abuse.
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I sent an email.

 

Be careful when ordering new drums. When MidMoTSI ordered his drums, they didn't come in right on the first try. There are several different application variants of this transmission even within the same year. I'd suggest comparing the drums thoroughly including depth guage/mic measurements before trying to load them.

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Thanks to all. The Army AKO site is down now, I'll check mail when it's back up. All advice will be taken. I'll spend the time waiting on parts cleaning and working the bushing issue for the shift linkage. The car sat under a tree for years before I got it from my sister. I got it going(won't bore you with that) and used as a daily driver for several years. Now it's a project to get right again. Daughter wants to drive it once to school before graduation even thou it need's to hit a body/paint shop. Thanks again, Alan
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Bear with me here, I'm going to try and post a pic

 

Following the FSM removal order ... separate the bell housing, gov tube, etc then the OD box. The six long bolts you pulled for the bell also held the OD box.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/000_0190.jpg

 

Then I sat the OD box up on end with the shaft up. I don't have the slide hammer tool and the holes for them are not a 10mm or 12 mm tap. I used 2 4" 7/16 #14 thread bolts. Put wrench under head and tap up with hammer from side to side. In about 2 minutes and it was out.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/oilpump.jpg

 

Started taking it apart. The drum and band where shot. Explains no OD, I've already been thru the temp sensor and bad OD relay deal and adjusted this twice.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/ODDrum.jpg

 

Tear down some more and the direct drum is bad and the band was not much better.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/DirectDrum.jpg

 

Why is that here? My Sis says the xmsn had never been worked on.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/FOD.jpg

 

 

For now I have the Kevlar Bands coming from Mike on this Forum, mine are on the way to him. Also have drums coming. If they are the correct one's I'll post source. Now I think I'll go thru the whole thing while I have it out. This is my frist time with an auto, learning xmsn talk calling for parts and asking questions. The OD is 2 clutch with sprage with needle bearing and direct drum is 4 clutch and washer bearing. So I will keep tearing down and cleaning while waiting on the parts.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/000_0202.jpg

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Alan in reference to the sprag bearing:

 

Mike, refresh my memory...isn't the sprag bearing marked to indicate the correct direction it is supposed to face when reassembled? I remember we had issues with the sprag in my tranny.

 

Alan, after disassembly, I took the 4 major components of the tranny housing to my friend' machine shop. He dipped them in his cleaning tank and took off all of the crud.

Edited by MidMoTSI
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Thanks MidMo TSI. I have it laid out in the pic the same way it was in. I will check for marks. I read thru the rebulid you guys had posted. This will give me reason to get a parts washer! Wife want's this thing out of the garage. I don't have the nice 24' x 24' shop like the last house. Never messed with auto before so looking forward to it. And to post for guys that are like me and not a pro on how much we could do ourselves. Don't let me put out any bad info.
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We aren't pros either. First time we rebuilt an auto.

 

One thing I found handy - Walmart automotive department stocks a flat pan for catching drips when you do oil changes. Works great for reassembly, gives you a clean working area, easy to locate parts, plus during reassembly, we lubed the new o-rings, bearings, etc with ATF.

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Thanks for the tip. The mark you are thinking of is on the sprag in the connectioning drum, one way clutch in the FSM. I'll take that out tomorrow. Still need to order rebuild kit. My bands should be to Mike soon for his Kevlars on the return. Have drums coming out of Dallas. Should have all day to work on it. Sleet and snow hit Huntsville,AL today. School out early and I left work to. Miss my detached shop for the room and bench. Later
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More tear down sat

 

rear planetary

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/rearplanetary.jpg

 

connecting drum with gear

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/conectingdrumgear.jpg

 

low reverse clutch pack

 

Then the rear extension. Weather was bad all day like most of the southeast. Sunday was better so I took the big parts out to Redstone Arsenal auto craft shop to use the parts cleaner. Then started cleaning the shifter linkage. I need to round up the bushings.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/shift.jpg

 

Messed up when I took it apart, mushroomed the threads getting the shaft out. I know better, just wasn't thinking. Shaved off the end with the Dremel. It will go together with nut, lock washer and loctite instead of the jamnut.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/repair.jpg

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Got the bands from Mike MeyerHoff. What a fast turnaroud and great work. Also got used drums from JP Transmission. Again, quick shipment, looks perfect and they sent them with the full build up ;clutch, sprag and everything. The overdrive and direct drum for less than $60. I don't know how to inspect the friction and clutch plates etc but mine and the one in those look fine. Need to get back with Mike and MidMo TSI on that and where they got the master kit from. Post some pic's in the next day or so. Any advice please hit me here here or james.owenby@us.army.mil

 

Alan

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Alan, I got my master kit from a buddy that has a transmission and automotive repair shop. It was a generic kit since the L4N71B was used on several vehicles in the 80's and 90's. O-rings weren't marked according to their diameter, so you'll have to match them accordingly. The input and output shafts had different diameters, I believe the 88/89's were slightly larger.

 

Since the friction and clutch plates were not too expensive and we had the tranny torn down, I went with new ones in my rebuild. What you have to watch is the max/min clearances. That is why in the Mitsu parts manual the thrust washer, retaining plates, side race, race bearing, etc. were offered in different thickness and used "As Required". Unfortunately, most of the auto tranny parts are no longer available thru Mitsu.

 

Though I went with new in my rebuild, Mike and I visually inspected the old friction plates for wear, i.e. the friction grooves in the plates. Much like visually checking your tires for the amount of tread left.

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Thanks MidMo TSI.I'm with you and Mike on new. I'm confident the bands and drums were the problem. I could throw it all back together and would work fine. But seeing how I have it apart all the way down and still need the gasket/oil rig kit I'll order a Master kit that has all that in it. They range from $110 to $160, unless you step up to speciality racing sets and a gasket kit runs around $50 or so, so it's not much more to have the new plates and such. As you stated about the different thickness of washers, etc I would think the new ones would be closer to spec measurement after reading thru the FSM. The same way in aircraft maintenance, we would have a list of part # to pick from to get to the desired clearance, thickness, drag or break away trq value.
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UH60A/L MP ME. Retired 10 years ago and flew test flts for Lockheed Martin at Ft Benning and Ft Polk. Ater Katrina hit, I was doing a HIT ck at 0800 and it was already 30C so I figured it was time to quit while I was ahead. Make more $ talking about helicopters to AMCOM here in Huntsville than flying them!
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  • 2 weeks later...

To clarify the above, Blackawk, CW3.

 

The weather here in north Alabama is as bad as anywhere else. Hard to go to the cold garage and get anything done. Did alot this weekend. Spent 30 minutes posting earlier then hit the wrong button and deleted it all, so I'll try again tomorrow. More pic's. This direct clutch is driving me crazy getting the snap ring in! Be safe, roads frozen here and school out tomorrow. Snowing off and on since yesterday morning.

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I'll try again and pay attention to the Photobucket buttons. Have all the hardware cleaned other than a few things that are bagged an tagged. Have the master kit, used drums and bands. Just had the oil pump, OD support and VB to clean. so it went something like this over the 3 day weekend.

 

Bands from Mike MeyerHoff

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/NewBands.jpg

 

OMG! What have I gotten into?

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/partseverywhere.jpg

 

 

 

Then I split the cases on the oil pump and OD support. Cleaned out with brake cleaner.

 

OD support also has 6 split rings along with the large O ring

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/ODsupport.jpg

 

Replaced the pump oil seal and the extension seal. Basic stuff

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/oilpumpseal.jpg

 

That left the valve body. I would like to stiffen it up, but for now I think I'll keep it stock and run a 100 mile or so and then drain for breakin residue. Get it mod then.

 

Dirty, the band and drums left a grain like syrup everywhere!

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/vbdirty.jpg

 

Got it all apart, couldn't get the 3-4 shift plunger out so I sprayed it good. One of the sleeves(sloted) was a bear to get out also.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/vbclean.jpg

 

Back together, took about 1.5 hours and a coulple of beers.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/vbcomplete.jpg

 

I got further into it but I'll post that later.

Edited by Alan
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  • 2 weeks later...

I am behind in posting pic's and updates. Transmission went in yesterday. Not shifting right, only went for a 10 minute drive. I'll catch up on install the next day or so and trouble shoot tonight. More bad weather coming, so it may be a few days.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
I'm behind on the pic's for install. Have some tips I'll post later. There has been snafu's. I'll list them later with some pic's. Right now it's in and the 1st to 2nd is fine. Going to third takes heavy pedal and back off some to hit. Only hit OD twice. After the first drive the hood latch cable snapped! My luck. The OD cancel and kickdown were checked IAW the FSM and good. The modulator had oil in it so a new one from Mits was installed. Vacuum check was good. Did all the checks for OD: temp ground, fuse 14 pulled, OD relay removed, kickdown checked and disconnected. Still same thing, 1st to 2nd good, third only after a high rev(then it drops back to 2nd) and no OD again. I plan on redoing the band adjustment for both again. If that is not it, guess I have something sticking in the VB. You smart guys please charm in and thanks to all that have to this point. Alan Edited by Alan
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I had forgotten about that. I didn't get the 3-4 plunger all the way out. I could slide it back and forth some with a scribe but not grasp it enough to pull all the way out. So I sprayed it down with brake cleaner. Wouldn't be much to recheack. I plan on dropping the pan to recheck the band servo anyway. I may pick up a in/lb trq wrench. On the one I have 10 lbs is the lowest setting on it, not sure how accurate it may be. Also, in the specifications section of the FSM, mine is the '89 book, it calls for the 2nd brake band to be trq at 9 to 11 ft/lbs and back off 3 complete turns. The direct band(OD) trq at 7 to 9 ft/lbs, no mention of backing off. The reassembly instructions are for both to trq 9 to 11 and back off 2 complete turns. Which did you guys do? Thanks, Alan
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Pulled the valve body. The 3-4 shift plug was a pain to get out and a bigger pain to install, even with lube and atf. Had no more movement than before. Can only go so far and bottoms out with spring. Rechecked the rest and all had movement, spring pressure etc. Still no OD and it would hunt for 3rd before engaging. Is getting better. Still alot of residual sludge in the fluid, probably from converter and cooler. So each time I drain some it gets better. So I'll catch up some of the install. Have a lot of pic's but will only bore you with a few.

 

finished the main case buy cleaning the 2nd band brake servo. Full of gunk! OD servo was the same.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0239.jpg

 

The accumulator on on the OD box popped out when I hit itwith 100psi of air, 40 PSI didn't budge it. Used wide mouth vise grips to compress the sping to install the snap ring.

 

Had 2 SNAFU's from the start. The low reverse clutchs go in first, 8 each. The master kit I had only had 7. So I used a set from what I pulled out.

 

8 on the left, taked out 7 on the right from kit

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/count.jpg

 

Worked my way forward, #2 SNAFU was the 2nd brake drum was the wrong one. The slot for the snap ring was too low in the drum for the proper clutch count. A call to JP transmissions had the correct one on the way UPS the next day. They were great! Then finished up the main box.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/bandinstall.jpg

 

When you get to the OD box, the FSM says to use 2 converter bolts to mount during build. I did that, but there is enough slack/play that 2 bolts would not start when I installed the oil pump. So I had to take it all apart and redo using all 6 bolts.

 

 

 

I found it easier to build it up in sections rather than try to install the OD drum and high reverse clutch as a unit.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0265.jpg

 

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0266.jpg

 

 

Just need the band.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0263.jpg

 

Oil pump went right on.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0271.jpg

 

 

Converter housing

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0272.jpg

 

Then the vavle body and pan went on. Don't remember who to give credit to, but the idea of cutting and slotting longer bolts proved to a help during the install.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0281.jpg

 

Did another of many projects for this quest while waiting for my wife's son to get home from the gym to help hang it in.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0279.jpg

 

Getting it in is straight forward. All auto desingers like to run wiring harness over the top, so watch and don't let them fall between eng and housing as you pull it up. Also, make sure you have a good aligment on the converter bolt hole to the flex plate(fly wheel). I didn't and had to bring it back a few inches to to aling. Being care to rotate the crank and tap the convert back with a punch , not to lose the 1" depth. So anyway, with everything in and bolted up it was time to check it out.

 

http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae184/owenbyj/XMSN%20rebuild%20Jan%202010/000_0283.jpg

 

After the first run I went to check the oil level and my luck. The hood hatch cable snapped! Happen several years ago and I had made this one. It pulled out where I had crimped at the latch so I could open with by pulling with pliers. Ended up changing the modulator. 1st - 2nd perfect all condition. Still hunts for 3rd but better with each drive. OD still not getting there. Went thru the heat sensor grounding, bottom right fuse, pulled OD relay. Readjusted the OD band today, I could push it in and get movement. Replaced the vauum line because I had some laying around. Again, my luck. Cranked up to check out and blew a head gasket! Why is it always on the passenger side aft of #4. Did it 6 years ago. So I'll take break from the auto and next Sat pop off the head/intake/exhaust as a whole like I did last time. That's how the FSM calls it and it worked well then. Everybody have a good week.

Edited by Alan
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