19 replies to this topic

[SSG_CARTER]

I have searched the Haltech board to no end. And the ecu is to old for support. Haltech E6X.
If I am using the cr120 and cr125 caravan mod with locked distributor. Does this change the setting in the software from internal reluctor to Hall Effect or stays the same. I’m a total newbie trying to digest the process. As simple as it may seem I am clearly missing something. Power to the caravan module +12v and Accel 300+ coil. Did the 1k resistor pullup. Power at ecu. Fuel pump primes. I am lost from there. Should be a signal from negative side of caravan module to trigger wire in ecu then ignition wire to cdi then spark generates and I have fire. 😳I have no spark . Also full battery charge and on cyl 1 tdc and phased correctly. Help and guidance appreciated. Car ran previously nov 2017 E6k died and I replaced it with the E6X. To current.

[speedyquest]

I think the first step for you is to Google the difference between how a VR sensor and Hall sensor work and what each outputs. Then after you have a solid understanding of that find out what kind of signal the caravan module puts out and that should give you your answer. Really you have to accept that if you want to get your standalone ecu of choice working correctly you are going to have to put the work into understanding how it works. Google will be your best friend.

[SSG_CARTER]

Thank you. that's the answer i was expecting. I will continue searching. i have seen this site go from helpful to condescending. The last thing i wanted to do was ask in the MPI section. Thanks again.

[speedyquest]

I don't know why you think I was being condescending. I don't have an answer to your question but I did what I could which was outline how you could get your answer pretty easily. You've got a specific problem with a specific ecu and chances are nobody has an easy answer for you.

[SSG_CARTER]

Thank you. I stand corrected. Frustrating and a steep learning curve.

[Funky Phil]

You dist has vr sensor. A lot of people go to a dsm style CAS

[Woody]

It's a Hall Effect. Mitsubishi Standard will work. I had E6K and then upgraded to Haltech E8. So can't help too much sorry

[SSG_CARTER]

Thanks all. I will try those options. Biggest problem is no signal. I’m going to have the wires scoped and see if I broke a wire on the conversion from E6k to e6x. Worse case start with fresh loom and do so I know what wires go where. Thanks again all.

[scott87star]

From the E6X manual on the Haltech website:

Quote

1.3.14 Connect the Trigger Sensor The Trigger is used by the ECU to determine Engine Speed and Position. Some engines have a second trigger that is used to act as a position reference and is called the “home” signal. For more information on trigger systems refer 4.2.3 Ignition Set-up Page, p41. When connecting the Cam or Crank sensors it is important to identify the type of sensor being used to measure engine speed and position from the following options: Optical, Hall effect or Reluctor. Optical and Hall effect Triggers Optical and Hall effect triggers behave in a similar way and are treated the same by the ECU and the term “Hall Effect” should be taken to include Optical triggers. Hall Effect triggers generally have 3 connections: power, ground and signal. As indicated by the table below, the Power terminal would connect to PIN F, the Ground to PIN A and the signal to PIN B. If a home or synchronising signal is required the signal terminal would be connected to PIN E and the Power and Ground to PIN F and PIN A respectively. Reluctor Triggers Reluctor triggers operate differently and require different wiring and set-up. Reluctor trigger sensors generally have two connections: Positive and Negative (often labelled “+” and “-”). As indicated by the table below, the positive connection would connect to PIN B, the negative to PIN C. If a home or synchronising signal is required the positive terminal of the home sensor connects to PIN E and the negative to PIN D.

The caravan module will appear like an optical trigger to the ECU with a 12V square wave which is different than most optical sensor which output a 5V square wave.  That shouldn't be an issue.  You could also use the factory VR pickup which uses the reluctor wiring.

It took me all of 30 seconds to pull up the old manual.  https://www.haltech....dows_manual.pdf

[SSG_CARTER]

I thank you . The problem I running into is am I correct in the software and you’ve answered the second part. So I will re-install the caravan modded distributor and give an update over the week. Wasn’t sure sure if I need home signal,  trigger just confused myself. I can tear one down put it all together in a weekend but the electrical gets me if it’s not labeled perfectly for me. Thanks again.

[SSG_CARTER]

Scott87Star, what would be the benefit of using the factory VR reluctor ring versus the CR120 pigtail which is a 2 wire. That’s 12v switched and Signal? No ground correction as the distributor is ground to the block?  I connected the caravan locked with pigtail and got no signal even with the setting in software to Hall effect, rising and standard distributor. No bouncing tach no signal no spark. Checked cdi box and it sparks per troubleshooting but not with ignition wire from ecu.

[scott87star]

I'd use whichever you can get to work, the factory VR reluctor is a proven system still being used by OEM's, you just have to make sure the shield is there.  Therefore it's three wires, positive, negative and shield and the shield is typically grounded only at the ECU end.  VR generates an alternating voltage signal the goes positive, drops across 0 and goes negative, the drop across 0 triggers the ECU circuit.  Unfortunately you need a scope to see the signal.

For the CR125 if operating properly you would see battery voltage with the key on and not cranking, then as it cranks you would see less than battery voltage as the "signal" is being pulled to ground as the distributor spins, remember that battery voltage drops while cranking anyway so just seeing the voltage drop doesn't mean you have a valid signal, the signal voltage has to be less than battery voltage.

[SSG_CARTER]

Sir you should teach. I completely understand that info broken down into terms understandable. Thank you I will report back my progress.

[SSG_CARTER]

Ok so after trying this again. Searched and found this
Quote;The Pertronix ignition system I am familiar with is an electronic conversion for a breaker points style distributor. This consists of a small module that attaches with 1 or 2 screws in place of the original points. There is a plastic ring that slips over the breaker cam on the distributor shaft, this ring contains some magnets. The module has 2 wires that are connected to the original points type coil, 1 wire provides 12v power to the module, the other is the negative connection for the coil. The module is grounded through the attaching screws, so a ground wire between the module / mounting plate & the distributor housing is important.

The last sentence is the answer for a cr120 pigtail with caravan igniter. I grounded the distributor now I have spark and rpm at the least. Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction. Let’s see what chapter 2 brings.

[SSG_CARTER]

Got it cranked. stock distributor with caravan module and pigtail. Set Haltech to Hall effect rising spark edge. I have to time it correctly now and import the E6k Maps from the last time running to E6X ECU. thanks again all.

[scott87star]

FYI, the caravan module is falling edge although I think it can work rising, the trick is using a timing light to make sure as you rev it the actual timing is the ECU commanded timing.  If it's retarding at all it's wrong.

[SSG_CARTER]

Roger that will pay attention and change as necessary.

[03CL55AMG]

Any update on your progress...

[SSG_CARTER]

she starts but wont run smoothly at anything less than 1000 rpms. the caravan module modded distributor does a great job of providing a good signal. the timing lock is 10* and its rock solid. just wont rev smooth without revving to the moon 2500-3000 then back down once i touch the throttle. back fires and sputters once you give it throttle. i am at a loss, just continuing to read the manual haltech E6K.

[SSG_CARTER]

Update! Scottstar knows his caravan modules. Ordered a 87 caravan distributor from ebay , what did i find ? a genuine Mitsu module. replaced the cr125 and resistor and immediately it revved smoother. Took her out today to see if all was well. actually saw 5psi and yes i was happy   haven't felt boost since last sept with the 20g 06h. late to come on boost but just drove down few hundred meters and back. i believe the original mitsu module is a must have if modded a stock distributor.