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ATLANTA LEGEND (How to avoid being screwed.)


iFREAKNiK
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DiSCLAIMER: I may rant.

 

OK, so a few years ago I fell in love with the SQ and have been dreaming of the day to get one right. Well that day is near and there are many of you out there feeding the noobs bullstinky - time to air that out. I've fully built my car from the oil pan to the valve cover and here's how to save money, time and stress.

 

Don't worry about the SPARK (distributor), putting EDIS, MSD is all good and dandy but you are wasting money and time. Nology wires are all you need if you decide to upgrade, everyone else is just trying to sell you s***. Most of the guys on here that have these cars are a little weird in a sense. They see the world there way so you should keep this in mind and remember that its YOUR CAR.

 

Get the SHORT SHIFTER, it's 150 from Mookeeh and worth every penny. It makes that truck motor under the hood FEEL like a sports car. It will reduce your 6 inch throw to 2 maybe 3 with a sexy firm, smooth feel (thank me later). Dont be scared to floss the polish on it as well, most guys are too cheap to buy it so if you got it . . . let it do what it do.

 

ENGINE overhaul: PAIN IN THE tail <-- avoid at all cost. It's better and cheaper to buy a refurb from Jasper engines. Not only will it be NEW - it comes with a beutiful warranty. If you are going MPI like I have, swap out the intakes and drop it off for a new one if you blow. Mechanics hate working on our cars because they are old, rare motors and requires them to think - they hate thinking. If you have the time to do ALL the work go for it but for everyone else with ambition, buy it and keep it moving.

 

HEAD: The Schneider cams and all that is WAYYYYYY over rated. Same with the Marnel and AUSSIE options. Keep a fresh pair of lifters, STAY HYDRAULIC and throw in a jet valve elimination kit for breathing - that's it. The port and polish, TEP manifold and all that other non-sense is useless. Been there and done that.

 

MPI: Damn near a waste of time UNLESS you intend to put a bigger turbo on it. Race manifolds will cost $500+ (get over it) - the magna is cool but is stock - remember that. When you go MPI you must buy a standalone - no way around it. Expect to spend $1,000 on the unit.

 

STANDALONE: I went with MegaSquirt and freakin hate it. The customer service sucks, no one knows how to tune it (because they didn't design it to fit on cars) and they charge your for EVERY LITTLE THING.

 

Here's an example:

I purchased the MSII for $550. Then I had to buy the harness, then the stimulator (to test the actual MegaSquirt), then the power charger for the stimulator, then the usb cord for the MS2 unit, then the adapter for the cord that plugs into the unit, then I had to go download a specific program/ driver for the CORD (yes, a driver for the fuckin cord) and then . . . there's more :-) Then download Tuner Studio which cost $90 more dollars and that's not all folks but I'll pause for now.

 

I EASILY have $1,100 in the MS2 which isn't bad in comparison to a $2,000 but the true difference is most Tuners support the AEM's and etc whereas the MS2 is not. Forget about tech support from DIY, all the guys there are engineers and can barely speak English (literally). They don't understand the impact of a friendly user interface nor wish to endorse it because they rather sell you the PNP (plug n play) and that's a whole nother story.

 

WIRING: BE TOTALLYjz about the technique used to wire your or it will catch on fire. Old wires turn into this funky dust inside the silicone and can burn up under the right conditions. Don't think it won't happen to you? It will. My experience has been let the mechanic build the car and the technician wire it. Nothing is worst then seeing your investment go up in flames. Absolutely insist on soldering where applicable and crimps with heat shrink everywhere else. STAY AWAY FROM ELECTRICAL TAPE!!!!!

 

GAUGES: oil, boost, temp <-- essentials a/r & rpm is a plus. The essentials are there so if s*** gets real on the road, you might be able to save your motor. The stock gauges are horrible and should never be trusted. Need an example? The STOCK boost gauge is electronic - damn thing flies around everywhere versus a after market one that is analog. Oil and temp are the same. Knowing what's going on with the motor is mandatory - if you feel it isn't -go drive with a blind fold on.

 

FUEL: Leave the fuel pump alone unless its broken. It has all the pressure you need.

 

TRANSMISSION: Will handle 500hp, 450 trq

MOTOR: Will handle 480trq stk (you need the above to get here)

NITROUS: Best s*** in the world, 150 hit all day

AIR DAMN: Them s**** break ALL THE TIME, look for a poly urthane one that BENDS. Avoid all fiberglass versions.

LOUVERS: They are lame and if I see you with them on your car, I'm laughing AT YOU.

REAR SPOILER: Read "louvers"

 

TBI: Truth be told its not that bad. If you want to MPI your s*** the cheap way: here's how to do it.

 

Tap & add 2 additional injectors after getting your hands on a 86 ecu. Why the 86 and not the 89? Here's why: The 89 has a primary and secondary injector. The primary sprays to about 2k rpm then the secondary kicks in. The 86 sprays both in an alternating sequence.

 

When you add the injectors, put on the clips and run them parallel from the stock ones. IE. Injec 1 goes to clip A, injec 2 goes to clip B. Make sure you have the same injectors and not using stock ones. Injector 1, Clip A should be on cylinder 1 & 4/ Injec 2, Clip B on 2 & 4 - that's it. Not really rocket science when you REALLY think about it but you leave it up to these low life scum bags on here and they'll sell you everything under the Sun but the truth.

 

EXHAUST: It's only a pipe, stay away from name brands because they wont make you faster. You'll just be that idiot that paid $500 for a pipe.

 

TUNE: As a mention, the ONLY time you should go MPI is when you anticipate a tune. You can TUNE the TBI however you must do it manually, this means taking OFF the vacuum advance and dialing back the distributor by hand. Swapping out the MAFS for a 4g63 one is a start and will help it breathe.

 

Well I'm done for now . . . if you guys have anything to say in contrary to the above statement - race me first. #**********

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You sure have your opinion...and I agree with a good bit of it. But ease up a little man...this is a friendly community here. If you have issues with the "many of us out there feeding the noobs bullstinky" I would suggest taking it up directly with whoever you feel is doing that. You've been a member long enough to know who those people are. Using broad general statements won't help matters...and I understand that you posted a "disclaimer," but that's not going to excuse your aggressiveness or attitude with a lot of people.

 

I like your intensity and desire to help some newbies out, but your approach is a good way to get banned from this site...which I'd hate to see since you're definitely passionate about SQs. No need for insults. So you don't like louvers...that's your opinion. Other people may like them. I personally don't like nitrous, but you won't find me telling you you're an idiot for liking it...that's your choice. Near the beginning of your post you said "They see the world there way so you should keep this in mind and remember that its YOUR CAR." By throwing insults at other's preferences, you've just violated your own precept.

 

You will for sure get banned if you don't remove your links. You obviously didn't read the posting rules of this website. Some of your links promote illicit content which is a no-go here. Go back and kill the profanities like "f" word and the "a" word as soon as you have a moment...or the moderators will kill your post...which you obviously spent some time on.

 

There's too few of us and our cars around anymore for that. You obviously joined the site because you share a passion for the cars we drive (I dig the lambo doors by the way)...just keep your posts in check before unloading...I'd like to see you stick around.

 

Cheers,

Nick

Edited by NikoFab
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I loved my MPI car, however i done all the work myself and done it right. had issues but thats part of the game. and it ran like a raped ape.. i also love my 1jz swap. again i done all the work myself. Everyone has their own opinion, you have yours and it seems about 50/50 as to whats true and whats not..
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As for MS I think you should have done some reading and research before you start. MS support is you and the MS comunity, and if you posted like this on the MS forums I can understand why you got no suport. It's all about you learning and doing it. Building the MS is also critical to your understanding of it, and ablity to mod to your needs.

 

As for your tuning idea, I don't see how that is really tuning, and you don't have the advantage to both see and contorl timing at will, on the fly from inside the car.

 

While our TB is not as bad as some make it out to be, it's also not the best for consistant fuel atimization. It's also rather small so at the higher end is a choak off risk, and opening it up slows down the flow and makes atimization worse. It's injection is very old technoligiy and does not provide for modern percice control.

 

I also fall into the catagory of other then mathcing number restores, I prefer to yank everything and update as much as possible. Been around cars long enough to not look / care at the money side of it, as most are just money pits.

 

 

There have also been plenty of people to prove the trans will not instantly break but won't last long at or above the 350 mark

Edited by jszucs
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DiSCLAIMER: I may rant.

 

OK, so a few years ago I fell in love with the SQ and have been dreaming of the day to get one right. Well that day is near and there are many of you out there feeding the noobs bullstinky - time to air that out. I've fully built my car from the oil pan to the valve cover and here's how to save money, time and stress.

 

Don't worry about the SPARK (distributor), putting EDIS, MSD is all good and dandy but you are wasting money and time. Nology wires are all you need if you decide to upgrade, everyone else is just trying to sell you s***. Most of the guys on here that have these cars are a little weird in a sense. They see the world there way so you should keep this in mind and remember that its YOUR CAR.

 

I can agree with this to some extent. MSD is good if you want to install a rev-limiter on a non-MPI'd car. Or launch control.

 

Get the SHORT SHIFTER, it's 150 from Mookeeh and worth every penny. It makes that truck motor under the hood FEEL like a sports car. It will reduce your 6 inch throw to 2 maybe 3 with a sexy firm, smooth feel (thank me later). Dont be scared to floss the polish on it as well, most guys are too cheap to buy it so if you got it . . . let it do what it do.

 

Any short shifter is a great improvement for our cars. I've driven a Mookeh, and have owned both an FIS and Stedebani. Personally I like the Stedebani the most, but the only option currently available is the Mookeh, so I'll agree with you here.

 

ENGINE overhaul: PAIN IN THE tail <-- avoid at all cost. It's better and cheaper to buy a refurb from Jasper engines. Not only will it be NEW - it comes with a beutiful warranty. If you are going MPI like I have, swap out the intakes and drop it off for a new one if you blow. Mechanics hate working on our cars because they are old, rare motors and requires them to think - they hate thinking. If you have the time to do ALL the work go for it but for everyone else with ambition, buy it and keep it moving.

 

Refurbished is good, but some of us like to build it ourselves. It's good advice for someone who isn't too mechanically inclined. I've never ran into anyone who hated working on the car - any time I've brought it in I've seen people fight, do rock paper scissors, pull straws, or seniority and experience wins out on getting to work on it. I've once even had a shop call down the district manager in to see it.

 

HEAD: The Schneider cams and all that is WAYYYYYY over rated. Same with the Marnel and AUSSIE options. Keep a fresh pair of lifters, STAY HYDRAULIC and throw in a jet valve elimination kit for breathing - that's it. The port and polish, TEP manifold and all that other non-sense is useless. Been there and done that.

 

Not really. I don't know much about the math behind it, but I know Frenchi here on the boards did the math to pair up an optimal turbo/cam setup and word is his TBI car freaking screams, due to the pairing.

 

MPI: Damn near a waste of time UNLESS you intend to put a bigger turbo on it. Race manifolds will cost $500+ (get over it) - the magna is cool but is stock - remember that. When you go MPI you must buy a standalone - no way around it. Expect to spend $1,000 on the unit.

 

Eh, yes and no. It'd make sense to put a bigger turbo on it, but take me for example - if I put an MPI on my car it'd be mainly to eliminate the double Y-runnings to lessen the chance of leaning out and cracking heads. Sure I'd upgrade the turbo to to a larger - but bolt on one. Nothing like some 60-1 trimmed turbo or anything.

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STANDALONE: I went with MegaSquirt and freakin hate it. The customer service sucks, no one knows how to tune it (because they didn't design it to fit on cars) and they charge your for EVERY LITTLE THING.

 

Here's an example:

I purchased the MSII for $550. Then I had to buy the harness, then the stimulator (to test the actual MegaSquirt), then the power charger for the stimulator, then the usb cord for the MS2 unit, then the adapter for the cord that plugs into the unit, then I had to go download a specific program/ driver for the CORD (yes, a driver for the fuckin cord) and then . . . there's more :-) Then download Tuner Studio which cost $90 more dollars and that's not all folks but I'll pause for now.

 

I EASILY have $1,100 in the MS2 which isn't bad in comparison to a $2,000 but the true difference is most Tuners support the AEM's and etc whereas the MS2 is not. Forget about tech support from DIY, all the guys there are engineers and can barely speak English (literally). They don't understand the impact of a friendly user interface nor wish to endorse it because they rather sell you the PNP (plug n play) and that's a whole nother story.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience with them. Jahjah MPI'd his Starion with MS on a Magna/19c setup and never had any issue. I guess its more of a forums help you type of thing. I know people here on SQC has the base maps you'd want to start up the car and tune from there. It typically has the price point going for it, hence its popularity amongst grassroots. AEM is a great standalone from what I've heard from chiplee.

 

WIRING: BE TOTALLYjz about the technique used to wire your or it will catch on fire. Old wires turn into this funky dust inside the silicone and can burn up under the right conditions. Don't think it won't happen to you? It will. My experience has been let the mechanic build the car and the technician wire it. Nothing is worst then seeing your investment go up in flames. Absolutely insist on soldering where applicable and crimps with heat shrink everywhere else. STAY AWAY FROM ELECTRICAL TAPE!!!!!

 

Agreed. I'm on my 3rd Starion. First one that has been unmolested wiring wise except for the headunit. Crap wiring = a car shorting out on the highway.

 

GAUGES: oil, boost, temp <-- essentials a/r & rpm is a plus. The essentials are there so if s*** gets real on the road, you might be able to save your motor. The stock gauges are horrible and should never be trusted. Need an example? The STOCK boost gauge is electronic - damn thing flies around everywhere versus a after market one that is analog. Oil and temp are the same. Knowing what's going on with the motor is mandatory - if you feel it isn't -go drive with a blind fold on.

 

This is truth. Well, you don't *really* need an aftermarket tach unless you're flat out drag racing and want the shift light and such, in my opinion. Most people here will never have the need for that.

 

FUEL: Leave the fuel pump alone unless its broken. It has all the pressure you need.

 

Should add fuel pressure gauge to that other list - and in my opinion, better to get a Walbro and have more than enough fuel than risk the 25 year old fuel pump suddenly failing or not pushing enough fuel, you detonating and blow headgaskets and other damage.

 

TRANSMISSION: Will handle 500hp, 450 trq

MOTOR: Will handle 480trq stk (you need the above to get here)

NITROUS: Best s*** in the world, 150 hit all day

AIR DAMN: Them s**** break ALL THE TIME, look for a poly urthane one that BENDS. Avoid all fiberglass versions.

LOUVERS: They are lame and if I see you with them on your car, I'm laughing AT YOU.

REAR SPOILER: Read "louvers"

 

I'm surprised more people in general don't run nitrous. Best power adder for the buck. As for the louvers and rear spoiler, here's looking at you Mr. Lambo doors. Everyone has their own tastes. I personally think louvers or the upper rear spoiler give it a succint 80s look. Not everyone is all about flat out acceleration and speed. Some of us are for mountain roads, and others just want to look good.

 

TBI: Truth be told its not that bad. If you want to MPI your s*** the cheap way: here's how to do it.

 

Tap & add 2 additional injectors after getting your hands on a 86 ecu. Why the 86 and not the 89? Here's why: The 89 has a primary and secondary injector. The primary sprays to about 2k rpm then the secondary kicks in. The 86 sprays both in an alternating sequence.

 

When you add the injectors, put on the clips and run them parallel from the stock ones. IE. Injec 1 goes to clip A, injec 2 goes to clip B. Make sure you have the same injectors and not using stock ones. Injector 1, Clip A should be on cylinder 1 & 4/ Injec 2, Clip B on 2 & 4 - that's it. Not really rocket science when you REALLY think about it but you leave it up to these low life scum bags on here and they'll sell you everything under the Sun but the truth.

 

Please don't encourage ghetto MPI setups. It's how these cars end up left to rot in backyards. :(

 

EXHAUST: It's only a pipe, stay away from name brands because they wont make you faster. You'll just be that idiot that paid $500 for a pipe.

 

... what name br- well, mookeeh did make one - but besides that, HKS is discontinued. Most of us are too cheap anyways and just get one made from a 3" straight with a muffler and a flex pipe.

 

TUNE: As a mention, the ONLY time you should go MPI is when you anticipate a tune. You can TUNE the TBI however you must do it manually, this means taking OFF the vacuum advance and dialing back the distributor by hand. Swapping out the MAFS for a 4g63 one is a start and will help it breathe.

 

Well I'm done for now . . . if you guys have anything to say in contrary to the above statement - race me first. #**********

 

Hm, you haven't been around for awhile? You can now drop GM 3" MAF and use the DSM MAF translator + an apexi SAFC and be pretty squared away with tuning.

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