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Fidanza Flywheel


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#1 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 09:37 AM

I have been dealing with this issue as long as I've had the Fidanza in my car.  When I try to start the car, the starter makes all kinds of noises.  It grinds, it skips, it wimpers until it just don't start the engine anymore.  I've changed the starter 4 times, 3 used ones and one new one.  But still the same thing, the starter dies.  They get to the point the were they kick out and the engine just does not spin.  One time, it seemed to get caught up, to where the engine would not spin.  I had to put the car in 5th and rock it back and forth to get it unstuck.  I have not found any signs of where on the starter or the flywheel.  There are no teeth missing from the flywheel either.  The next step that I see is to change the flywheel.

The question that I have is it possible that I have an alignment issue?  It seems something is pushing on the starter the wrong way.


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#2 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 09:39 AM

I'd like to add, that I've been dealing with this for four years and two engines now.
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#3 scott87star

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 11:11 AM

Wacky, I would have thought that you would have caught a bad alignment issue when you moved it from one motor to another.  My Fidanza and starter motor work in factory perfect harmony.  One issue I had with a Maserati biturbo that drove me nuts, the ring gear on the flywheel would actually spin without moving the flywheel.  Bad enough that I had to bump start the car several times.  I re-aligned that starter motor a bunch of times before I figured it out, then just put a new ring gear on and all was fine.  Without hearing the noise yours is making its hard to trouble shoot but its something to consider.

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#4 Technology

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 11:22 AM

I wonder if the center of your flywheel where it bolts to the crank is not cut in the middle. See if there is runout when you spin the flywheel. That would kill a starter fast, I think.

#5 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 12:11 PM

View Postscott87star, on 04 June 2010 - 11:11 AM, said:

Wacky, I would have thought that you would have caught a bad alignment issue when you moved it from one motor to another.  My Fidanza and starter motor work in factory perfect harmony.  One issue I had with a Maserati biturbo that drove me nuts, the ring gear on the flywheel would actually spin without moving the flywheel.  Bad enough that I had to bump start the car several times.  I re-aligned that starter motor a bunch of times before I figured it out, then just put a new ring gear on and all was fine.  Without hearing the noise yours is making its hard to trouble shoot but its something to consider.

Scott


To know the sounds, 1) think of the sound you get when you hit the starter on a running car.  2) Think of the sound you get when a tooth is missing.

I get those two sounds the most.
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#6 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 12:14 PM

View PostTechnology, on 04 June 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

I wonder if the center of your flywheel where it bolts to the crank is not cut in the middle. See if there is runout when you spin the flywheel. That would kill a starter fast, I think.


Makes a lot of sense.  I'm gonna call Fidanza and see about sending it in to them to let them check it out, after I put it on the CMM here at work.  

But I have to take it out first.  i can't decide if I want to pull the engine or the tranny.  Prolly gonna be the tranny, because I don't have a building to put it in.
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#7 Technology

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 12:44 PM

You can pull the tranny without an engine hoist. :D

#8 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 01:30 PM

View PostTechnology, on 04 June 2010 - 12:44 PM, said:

You can pull the tranny without an engine hoist. :D


Yeah, I know.  It's just a real PITA to get my car off the ground.  But once it's up there of course, I can leav it while I figure all this out.
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#9 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 01:58 PM

Just got off the phone with Fidanza.  Gotta drop the tranny and send the flywheel to them.  If the ring-gear is bad, they will replace it.

I guess, I'll be turning bolts tomorrow.  It sure will feel good to be able to start that thing up smoothly though.
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#10 JAinsworth

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 02:00 PM

Will, is the rear plate between the engine and flywheel there?  Without it, you will have starter issues.

Page 60, part #4......
  http://www.starquest...09_-_engine.pdf

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#11 claurance2

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 02:07 PM

View PostJAinsworth, on 04 June 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

Will, is the rear plate between the engine and flywheel there?  Without it, you will have starter issues.
Jimmy


I was gonna say the same thing.
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#12 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 02:55 PM

View PostJAinsworth, on 04 June 2010 - 02:00 PM, said:

Will, is the rear plate between the engine and flywheel there?  Without it, you will have starter issues.

Page 60, part #4......
  http://www.starquest...09_-_engine.pdf

Jimmy

Yes.  I know I put it on there with each engine.  This has been going on for two different engines now.

And to make sure it was there, I looked at it last night, just to make sure, again.

Edited by TopDawg_43, 04 June 2010 - 02:57 PM.

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#13 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 03:00 PM

Jimmy, it was doing this last time you seen the car.  You probably don't remember because it was PF07.
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#14 Indiana

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 03:26 PM

How many teeth on that starters drive gear? Then put a mark on the ring gear then slowly turn the wheel and count the teeth. Are you using the bolts for the starter that have the long shoulder on them? If not the starter will move around and those two bolts are to be in the starter holes to limit it from doing this.

#15 TopDawg_43

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 03:49 PM

View PostIndiana, on 04 June 2010 - 03:26 PM, said:

Are you using the bolts for the starter that have the long shoulder on them? If not the starter will move around and those two bolts are to be in the starter holes to limit it from doing this.


I don't know, I'll look at it when start to pull the tranny tomorrow.  If this were the case, wouldn't the ring-gear on the flywheel show some signs of chipping?
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#16 BC_99

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 05:25 PM

Before you pull the tranny out, you may consider loosening the starter bolts just a little bit and try to wiggle it against the shanks of the bolts to see how much play is there. That will tell you right away if the correct bolts are in there that Indy was asking about.

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#17 Indiana

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 12:49 AM

Starter drive gear or shaft would wear way before that ring gear would that sucker is hardened.

#18 TopDawg_43

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 12:24 PM

Ok, here's the update.  I pulled the starter this morning.  I did not have the correct bolts in there.  There is ALLOT of play for the starter to move.  And looking at the ring gear, it shows that the starter is only half way meshing with the flywheel.  I'm assuming all this is caused by use of the wrong bolts.  I still gotta get a new starter.  It's just broke, duct tape won't fix it.  Good thing AZ has those handy lifetime warranties :D .  I am also on a Quest for starter bolts.  I guess I will check the dealer for those, unless one of you fine SQC gentlemen know where I can get a set..........
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#19 TopDawg_43

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Posted 05 June 2010 - 12:24 PM

View PostIndiana, on 05 June 2010 - 12:49 AM, said:

Starter drive gear or shaft would wear way before that ring gear would that sucker is hardened.


I think the shaft broke.
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#20 pure_insanity

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 09:32 AM

View PostTopDawg_43, on 05 June 2010 - 12:24 PM, said:

I think the shaft broke.


will,  ive had poor luck trying to use parts store starters. seems they never work halfway. ive found it better to just go to the junkyard and find a new used one and be done with it. youll be surprised what a difference it will make.
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