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Engine specs & engine bay dimensions? GM engine swap idea


Starquest_Shopper
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I've been reading a few threads here with interest. My background involves swapping low-cost late model Generation 3 Chevy V8 truck engines into various foreign cars. I have done this with two RX-7s (sold), a MK3 Supra (sold), and a BMW 5 Series wagon (sold). I still have a 280Z project with an LT1 Trans Am engine & T56. If I am able to sell one of my other cars, a SQ is next on the list to buy. I'll do one of two things depending on how much I get for the car- get a complete car in good shape with working AC or a roller or one in need of engine repair that I can perform a swap upon.This brings me to the point of this thread. I've tried to find various specs for the several engines used here such as 1JZ, 4G63, etc. and not found much as far as length or width or sometimes weight. Ditto the engine bay for length & usable width. I'd also need the dimensions & weight for the stock G54B.If someone can point me to this info, I'll be glad to compile it here. Having found the cost for GM parts is usually very low due to mass production, one of the outside the box engines I'm looking at is the GM late model inline 5, which is a 3.7L that is rated 242 hp at 5600 rpm and 242 lb·ft at 4600 rpm. These are relatively expensive ($1,150 was the best price I found at a junkyard) as compared to the 4.2L inline 6 below.The other is the GM inline 6, which is a 4.2L that is rated 291 hp at 6000 rpm and torque to 277 lb·ft at 4800 rpm (2006+). These were in a bazillion ;) GM trucks such as the Trailblazer and can be had cheap, like around $750 for a 2006 version or $400 for an older one.The inline 5 engine was mated to a 5 speed manual and a Chevy Colorado bellhousing can be used to adapt a manual such as the R154, but fitting that in the trans tunnel is another topic.One other low $ option may be the older GM 4.3L V6, which is basically 3/4 of a Chevy small block. They were rated at 200 HP and 250 foot pounds. With minimal boost or even basic hot rodding mods, I'd think they would produce great numbers.I read the L67 supercharged GM 3800 thread and that seemed like a lot of work, although it was a great read and project.I need to compile info on these engines to see if they would fit.Thanks for any help or advice. If I'm asking in the wrong section, let me know and I can edit the post and re-post it as needed. Edited by Starquest_Shopper
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I found a goldmine info site for the 4200 inline 6 here:

 

http://www.vortec4200.com/

 

They have a forum section, and I found a picture with engine dimensions, looks like it is basically 30" high x 30" long and 17" wide w/o accessories:

EDIT

The weight is around 400 pounds, and as of 2012 the cost for a custom oil pan and flywheel (estimated $1,000) eliminates this as a low $swap:

http://www.jeepstrok....php?f=9&t=2963http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f148/SP3258/Vega/LL8%20project/LL8%20to%20SBC%20comparison/ll8blockheaddimensions-1.jpg

GM truck intakes and oil pans are usually tall/deep. On the Gen 3 V8, you can swap in car pans and intakes, but since this was a dedicated truck motor some fabrication would be needed.

 

Found more dimensions on another forum:

Found LL8 4.2 dimensions on a Datsun "hybridz" site...

 

fella pulled a tape on one... at least it is a start on sizing..

 

"From the front of the water pump pulley to the front of the bell housing 32 inches

Widest part of the engine with the power steering pump 27 inches

Top of the front of the valve cover to the bottom of the crank pulley 24 inches

Top of the front of the valve cover to the bottom of the oil pan 30 inches."

 

 

One of the more interesting (and lengthy) threads involved swapping one into a MK3 Supra, he made a pan (that leaked) and added a turbo:

http://www.vortec420....php?f=10&t=780

Edited by Starquest_Shopper
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Looks like a great possibility. The 1997+ version has 290 HP & 300 foot-pounds. I saw one complete w/ accessories on eBay for $400 + shipping.

 

A good bit of info here:

http://www.lextreme....1uzfe_info.html

 

It says this engine is actually larger than a GM 350! Looks like a "W" series 5 speed manual or R154 will bolt up with an adapter plate.

 

EDIT

Reading that page further, the adapter plate is $250, and a custom or modified stock flywheel is needed.

 

Found this site in another thread here,a complete trans adapter setup for $900:

http://www.1uzfeswapkit.com/Complete-kits_c7.htm

Edited by Starquest_Shopper
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One of my goals if I do this is to retain the AC system. Looking at a swapped 1UZ car in another thread, I see the radiator had to be pushed forward and there is no AC.

 

Another is access for regular maintenance, such as plugs & oil filter, and not having to adjust valves (hydraulic).

 

A third is low cost for the initial setup and replacement parts such as the water pump, etc. $900 just to adapt a manual trans is too much for me.

 

With this in mind, I think an inline engine may be the better way to go. Still doing some reading in this section, I see the GM inline 5 and 6 were mentioned in another thread.

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Do you have a link to a build thread or some pics? I searched this section and didn't see anything. I don't know the ins & outs here if you have a gallery or album someplace. It really bugs me to have to spend $900 for a flywheel & bell housing. On my Chevy swaps, these items were usually $25-50.

 

I've been compiling engine & transmission data from any source I can find. At this point, what I am looking to eventually do is have a mild (read: reliable) engine in the 275-300 HP range and be able to use a manual transmission that will fit into the tunnel with minimal or no mods to the tunnel. I think a killer setup would be a single turbo late model GM 4.3 V6 (3/4 of a GM 350) single that will bolt to an LT1 T56. Having read some threads here about the T56, it is out since I don't want to cut the tunnel. GM made a factory turbo FI version of this engine in the early 90's and put it in two trucks, the Syclone & Typhoon. It was rated @ 280HP, but of course parts are hard to find. If the AX15 or NV3550 5 speed will fit in the tunnel OK, this engine is still a possibility.

 

One other possibility is a 3.7L Dodge V6 with a bolt-up NV3550 5 speed (still researching SQ fitment on that one). The engine mounts the accessories high & in reach like my 5.9L Durango. Dodge went to a 6 speed in 2005 but it has a higher (numerical= more cruise RPM) OD than the older 5 speeds. Here's a copy & paste from my notes:

 

Dodge 3.7L V6, 210 HP @ 5200 235 TQ @ 4000 $850 shipped on eBay

Iron block, aluminum heads, 2V SOHC, SFI, 9.7:1 CR (2005+)

 

NV3550 5 speed manual applications $450 car-part.com in SC

The New Venture Gear 3550 was released in the Jeep TJ Wrangler and XJ Cherokee in 2000, as the replacement to the AX15 transmission. It is also found in Dodge downsized pickups. It's last year in the Jeep was 2004, after which it was replaced by the NSG370 six-speed.

 

EDIT

The NV3550 has the shifter too far forward to be of use. The AX15 or MA5 may be adaptable to this engine.

 

The 2011+ 3.6L Dodge V6 is a really compact engine at 19.8" long (the 3.7 is 23.5"), but is so new that prices remain high. In a RWD Challenger/Charger/300 application, it is rated at 305 HP / 270 TQ.

Edited by Starquest_Shopper
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Another possible budget combo-

One of my other cars is a 1991 Daytona CS 2.5L inline 4 turbo. Just like the SQs that I have owned, it's a great little car. The engine is about as easy to work on as it gets, and parts are dirt cheap. I'm currently relocating a GT2560R turbo from behind the engine to beside it and adding larger injectors, AEM fuel management, and an intercooler. The 2.2L turbo II version inline 4 is even more robust and can make the power I'm looking for (275-300 FWHP). Apparently the Neon 2.0/2.4 can also use this as well.

 

With that in mind, I visited turbododge.com and found this thread:

(Neon 2.0/2.4, uses Jeep Liberty bellhousing)

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f68/370573-ma5-chevrolet-transmission-confirmed-work-2-a.html

 

The Dodge 2.2/2.5 can use the same transmission with a 1994-95 Dakota bellhousing:

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f11/f68/22438-rwd-tranny-your-2-2-2-a.html

 

According to the first thread's author, the MA5 is stronger than the R154 and uses the same attaching pattern. It appears to be compact as well, a key issue for the SQ tunnel.

 

In summary, using a Chevy Colorado MA5 transmission (found one within an hour for $130 at a JY, there are loads in the SE USA on car-part.com for $275) and the Jeep Liberty 2.5 bell housing will bolt onto the Neon 2.0 or 2.4 engine. The Liberty BH was around $100.

 

For the older 2.2/2.5, a Dakota 2.5L bellhousing could be used, they have been bolted to the AX15 trans which has the same pattern as the MA5. These can be found for $50.The 2.2/2.5 turbo engines are around $300 on eBay and can be built up reasonably, or like the G54B a project already built can be found for less than the cost of doing it yourself.

 

The GM 3.7L inline 5 could also be used, but these are fairly rare and expensive ($1600 or so). I'm thinking from reading other threads The thread lays out the other parts needed, they are all fairly basic & low cost.

 

The Solstice/Sky car transmissions look like they mount the shifter too far back and apparently use a funky driveshaft connection. My guess after reading the thread is the shifter is about 31" back. The stated truck trans measurement is 25". The 93-97 F-Body T56 which is supposed to be a good fit in the SQ is about 28".

 

Still researching the driveline connection, but worst case a Colorado driveshaft could be adapted to the SQ at a shop.

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The 1uz is wider than the small block motors from GM because it has a quad cam so the heads take up a bit of space. If you're building for power you'll want an early 1uz 90-93 I think. My conquest has a 1uz with a 350z trans and I know Tim is using the 240sx ka trans. Its a bit hard to make power out of it NA but I just acquired a fish bracket and will be running a vortech v2 sc, 315cc injectors, adaptronics, and Kelford cams.

 

They can be had for cheap from an abundance of older lexus cars just now making their way to junkers. I also have a tundra 4.7 2uzfe block that im going to be throwing worked 1st gen 1uz heads on.

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The 1uz is wider than the small block motors from GM because it has a quad cam so the heads take up a bit of space. If you're building for power you'll want an early 1uz 90-93 I think. My conquest has a 1uz with a 350z trans and I know Tim is using the 240sx ka trans. Its a bit hard to make power out of it NA but I just acquired a fish bracket and will be running a vortech v2 sc, 315cc injectors, adaptronics, and Kelford cams.

 

They can be had for cheap from an abundance of older lexus cars just now making their way to junkers. I also have a tundra 4.7 2uzfe block that im going to be throwing worked 1st gen 1uz heads on.

The 1uz is a excellent choice for a daily driven SQ swap , it makes ample power and is LIGHTER in the earlier 89 to 94 all aluminum configuration than the SQS 2.6 four cyl ,going easy on the 'loud" pedal 26 mpg is easily obtained.

i bought a complete/running/accident damaged 94 Lexus 400LS for $500 not long ago ,these cars and engines are readily available and bullet proof !.....it's a great choice for the SQ as swaps go, even the stock headers clear the steering box , what ever engine you pick for a swap it's going to cost $$$$$$ in one area or another , mine runs a Toyota W58 5speed via the mentioned adapter plate and has proven to be a excellent daily driver and the sound of this quad cam V8 is like no other V8 out there , goosebumps every time i turn the key . :)

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Here's another possibility, this has appeal for a drop-in setup with a decent price and good aftermarket support:

2010+ Chevy Camaro LLT 3.6L V6 and Aisin AY6 six speed manual (factory combo).

 

The LLT makes 312 HP @ 6400 RPM and 278 TQ @ 5200. I found used examples for $850-1300. The AY6 can be had for about $700. The Camaro enjoys widespread aftermarket support and it would likely be possible to custom tune the engine/trans to an older vehicle with software such as HP Tuners. Prices for these parts will only go down as they age.

 

The oil pan appears to be very low profile, and this is a native RWD setup, which should help with mounting. The 11.4:1 compression ratio would preclude forced induction, but it makes sufficient power as-is for my needs, and runs on regular 90% gasoline. The 2010+ Camaro looks like it weighs about 750 pounds more than a SQ.

 

The AY6 is geared as follows:

1: 4.15

2: 2.33

3: 1.53

4: 1.15

5: 1.00

6: 0.79

R: 3.67

 

First is way too low, but the OD is improved.

 

The Starion five speed (KM132-M-CNL) is geared as follows:

1: 3.37

2: 2.04

3: 1.36

4: 1.00

5: 0.86

Edited by Starquest_Shopper
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The 1uz is a excellent choice for a daily driven SQ swap , it makes ample power and is LIGHTER in the earlier 89 to 94 all aluminum configuration than the SQS 2.6 four cyl ,going easy on the 'loud" pedal 26 mpg is easily obtained.

i bought a complete/running/accident damaged 94 Lexus 400LS for $500 not long ago ,these cars and engines are readily available and bullet proof !.....it's a great choice for the SQ as swaps go, even the stock headers clear the steering box , what ever engine you pick for a swap it's going to cost $$$$$$ in one area or another , mine runs a Toyota W58 5speed via the mentioned adapter plate and has proven to be a excellent daily driver and the sound of this quad cam V8 is like no other V8 out there , goosebumps every time i turn the key . :)

 

I wonder how many of us are there with 1uz starquest, maybe 5 or 6?

I wish I could find a flatty or another clean widebody to put the supercharged motor in.

Have you tried racing it at a track?

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I wonder how many of us are there with 1uz starquest, maybe 5 or 6?

I wish I could find a flatty or another clean widebody to put the supercharged motor in.

Have you tried racing it at a track?

No Gina , this is purely a daily driven ( usually by Mrs Sotty ) street sleeping grocery getter and part time show car , performance i dunno but i know its exceeds 150 mph :) its a great marraige of Toyota and Mitsubishi for those wanting a cheap,reliable loud as hell daily driver, the car drives nicer than my 2.6 88 shp , there are 5 sqs i know of with the 1uz swap , two auto, 3 manual , anyway i'll let the poster continue to look elsewhere and not clutter his thread .
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The late model 2011+ Mustang V6 is rated at 305 HP & 280 TQ, but is not cheap at $1500+. It mates to a six speed manual (MT82) that is about $1200. The gear ratios for it are similar to the GM/Aisin, but there have been some operational issues with it based upon what I've read.

 

1st: 4.236

2nd: 2.538

3rd: 1.665

4th: 1.238

5th: 1.00

6th: 0.70

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I'm not ruling out the Toyo V8, but have an open mind, lots of time, a limited budget, and excellent researching capability. I'm hoping this thread will offer future readers some decent info if they are considering one of the combos I have listed. My reference document has grown to 13 pages of engine & transmission info.

 

If the $900 transmission adapter cost can be offset by a reduced engine and transmission cost, then the Toyo V8 could be a leading candidate for me. I won't know where they all stand until I can price out equivalent combos.

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dunno if its the same adapter, but did u try this guy? http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12391

 

or u could do your own. I have 2 friends do them in their backyard.

Done lotsa boxes behind various motors and their driveshafts also. Can only recall vibration in one or two of their early swaps.

Mind u these are really sharp cats...... ie. not your average guy

 

Some great threads detailed on the net, of how folks adapted different gearboxes also

 

All good to go thru research, but gremlins from these untried swaps may make u wish you'd spent twice that $900. Thats a reality

 

Hard to beat a 4g63/4 in a starquest.... like a natural.

This basic gearbox adapt approach is unlimited. http://forums.austarion.com/viewtopic.php?t=10602

Seen clear plexiglass used as templates, then the sky is the limit

 

what is trully amazing is how toyota can make a 4 liter v8 as light as a 2 liter sr20. A fellow clubmember detailed this in his corolla swap, like 10 years back, when he went from 4ag to sr20 to 1uz. Bone stock, the uz went 13,2 in his corolla

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The 4G63 swap is popular for a good reason. This thread is looking at various alternatives, mainly GM/Mopar ones. I read that other thread, didn't see a price. Since I'm not directly in the market, I didn't email him.

 

I was doing some reading about the Ecotec inline 4 and some shopping. I found a 2007 2.4L out of a Pontiac G6 at a nearby JY for $160.. It did not indicate it was a core or broken engine. The same yard has an MA5 trans from a Colorado truck for $130. There is some aftermarket/DIY support on adding a single turbo to the 2.4 to get around 280 HP (HP Tuners or Megasquirt for engine control). The main concern is the 10.4:1 CR, but apparently the pre-2008 motors had forged internals. This could be a decent budget build if the trans fits the SQ OK. Add-on turbo kits are $3K. Having added a rear mount to my Trans Am & relocating the Garrett on my Daytona, I know it can be done for a lot less.

 

One big advantage to using a factory engine/trans combo is the bolt together option and the use of factory parts like the clutch/FW/TOB and ECM.

 

EDIT

I found one more thing to like about this engine, a top-mount canister oil filter:

http://www.underhoodservice.com/Content/Site308/Articles/03_01_2009/794890ecooilsho_00000035983.jpg

 

I found a thread where a builder used the same setup I'm looking at, a 2.4L NA engine/MA5 trans and he added a turbo to it. While the Lotus replica is super light, the concept remains the same:

www.locostusa.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6783

 

I have a lot of stuff here I'd like to recycle but none of it is a good fit. I have a 2.7L Chrysler V6 from a Sebring, but AFAIK there is no MT option for it. I looked for a flywheel from Chrysler, but apparently this engine was only used with automatics.

 

I've also got a couple of Masterpower turbos from the Trans Am, but they are a 60-1 and S70, both are too large for a 4 cylinder. The 60-1 would likely work with a 4.3 V6, but by the time I add up the cost, it's more expensive to make 300 HP that way than paying $900 for the Toyo adapter or going one of the other routes.

Edited by Starquest_Shopper
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Posting more research for the Ecotec swap (will copy & paste this to a project thread later):

Cooling system-

OEM radiator size:

I/O: 1.25/1.33; W: 25.5; H: 15.7; T: 1.2 $142 on Amazon APDI Radiator 8010086. Flows top to bottom.

OEM used two fans, one large & one small, old inefficient design. Top inlet is offset to driver side. Bottom outlet is on passenger side.

 

Swaps have used Supra Mk3 radiator. Rock Auto shows it as:

I/O 1.33; W: 25.5; H: 14.8; T: 1.25 & is $95

 

Solstice 2.0T radiator:

I/O 1.32; W: 19.32; H: 14.82; T: 1.06 & is $128. Pin mount difficult to adapt.

Fan shroud & blade $65 Dorman 620953

 

The Lincoln Mark VIII fan is 21 5/8 wide, 18 1/2 high, and 4 1/4 thick when trimmed to thinnest size. It is too tall.

 

A 1993 3.8L Taurus radiator is W: 24 H: 15 and also pin mounts. The two-speed fan assembly is $54 at RA & should be a good fit for the above OEM/Supra radiators.

 

Possible combo: Stock radiator with Taurus two-speed fan. Adapt 1.25 hose fitting as needed.

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I've now compiled some parts cost totals for various engine/trans combos. This goes into a little detail (more so on the Ecotec since that is where I started), but does not include everything. I basically priced the engine, trans, clutch parts to include FW if needed, and for the NA 4 cylinder engines a genuine journal bearing turbo (no cheap eBay junk). The engine & trans prices were higher since I used JY prices within driving range. Here's what I ended up with:

Ecotec 2.4L w/ turbo: $2700

2010+ Camaro V6: $2400

1UZ: $2450

Colorado 3.7L I5: $2100

Colorado 2.9L I4 w/ turbo:$2300

Neon SRT4 w/ turbo: $2500

4G63T w/turbo: $2100

 

The best deal will be to find something locally that has most of what I'm looking for. The Colorado prices could be cut if the engine had a manual transmission. JY prices for stuff like alternators and AC compressors can nickel & dime the cost well above what I added up. If I could adapt the 2.7 V6 out of the Sebring I have that would be a real cost saver, but AFAIK those engines never had a manual transmission option and the intake points to the wrong end.

 

If an aluminum Gen 3 Chevy truck V8 would fit in, that would likely cost the least & give the most power/$.

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After compiling all of this info, I think the best route for what I want to do is to do a performance rebuild of a stock engine, and convert it to port fuel injection controlled by a Megasquirt. The best deal will be one someone started & has to sell, generally a win/win for both.
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