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274 cam

88351wtsi

By 88351wtsi,
in Advanced Virtual Mechanic

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scott87star Contributor

scott87star

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Aussie factory roller, one of Tim C's rollers and I have three of Schneider's roller cams. I like roller hydraulic cams, they run smoother.

 

Other than smoother? You won't see any difference OR it will be negative until you uncork the hotside and exhaust. The factory cam (IMHO) has too much overlap for the stock hotside already.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Tim_C. Apprentice

Tim_C.

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Scott, do you have the Schneider's running in an engine? I have their roller in one of mine, and I literally had to build the engine around it. Notch the pistons, raise the VC, custom length valves, etc... I do like to run a non-OEM cam to better fit the application. Such as a hi-torque grind. I prefer rollers too, and have found the OEM Aussie roller cam to be the best for overall performance with a factory idle. However, it does share the same issue Scott pointed out. And I'm not one that cares much about a smooth idle. I like a little lump. I just recommend sticking with something that provides good low RPM power, as that tends to be more drivable on the street. I have open roads around where I live, so I don't worry too much about street driving in traffic, but I do like to drive to the city once in a while, so I use another car that is more friendly for that. It has the Aussie roller in it. My Schneider roller is a mad rush to drive on the highway. Mega top end power, but I need to keep the RPM up around town moreso. It idles at 1050 RPM or so. More like 950-1150 lumping LoL! But it is pure fun on the highway even with 3.90 rear gears. So you need to determine what parts the cam is mating to, and what type of driving you want to do. I agree with Scott that the aftermarket cams with wider separation work better to keep the turbo spooling. It won't nose over with the power dropping off until later in RPM. So the power band goes higher, and the right grind won't make the power start later. You can effectively widen the power band RPM wise with the right cam and parts to match. You can make a lot of power with the stock cam, but the range is still small compared to the right cam. We all have our philosophy, but I like to have a non US OEM cam in my cars. You can still do MPI, or tuning magic to gain great power with the stock cam, but you will get more from all of that with the right cam that is not US OEM.
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mstieg Newbie

mstieg

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Do you or will you still offer your "Magna" grind roller cam Tim? I believe that would be suited to the more available 1.6 rockers too right?

 

The original OEM Magna cams are getting more rare. Thanks for mine btw - looking forward to seeing what it'll do in various rpm & boost ranges...

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Tim_C. Apprentice

Tim_C.

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I'm pretty much out of the cams. Too volatile of an atmosphere. LoL! I think the most I ever 'made' from selling a cam was $30, and even then I supply the packing, and use my time to take it down to the post office to ship it, pay for confirmation, etc... I end up losing money for the community many times, and I just can't afford that any more. People don't want to pay, then they bash and complain. People who run my cam in their car on the track for years, then they want to bash and complain. People who have never bought anything bash. People wanting me to send the cam without a core for core price, then I never hear from them again, etc... People who offer their own stuff bash to get my 'business'. Their way of being competitive is to bring others down to make themselves look good. Not worth it even if I made money from it. I'm done with doing favors for people only to get bashed for it. Now I see why some people never lift a finger unless they are getting paid good money for it. I used to think they were a bit selfish and not helping members like they should, but now I think they just had it figured out more than I did at the time. Yep, the time has come all over the world, not just our community, that people are going to need to pay even more to get what they want. This economy is making all prices continue to rise. The media hype about low gas prices lately, is another example. Just a few years ago it was far under $2 per gallon. They keep creeping up the price so much that now the prices are "low" when they dip below $3. Yep, the time has come to where if anyone wants something, they better be prepared to pay more all over the world. Or do without.
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DieHARDmitsu. Newbie

DieHARDmitsu.

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A 274 cam is very nice on the streets. It will make power from 2500-6400 rpm. Your gains with any cam as you may know depends on how well the engine flows. A freer flowing turbine/exhaust and better breathing intake (bigger throttle body, ported head, oversize valves, ect) will net gains. On a mildly modded car, 5-15 hp could be gained; however, if the engine remains almost stock don't expect too much from a bigger cam. You'd be better off with a stock cam and spending your money on making the car more reliable.

Also, an aftermarket grind will change the air flow characteristics through an engine, so to get the most out of it, a bit of fine tuning on fuel delivery might be necessary.

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Tim_C. Apprentice

Tim_C.

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Good advice DieHARDmitsu. TexasQuest: One problem I had was the person in Australia I was dealing with. The kid sent me 4 of 6 cams I paid for. Kept saying he would send the other 2, but I never saw them. Just another reason to keep me from staying in it. We'll see how mstieg's set up goes. That would be one I could order more of, if it works out well on his. I've had good results, but I want to see how his runs, and what he thinks about it. We could even mod it a touch, since he needed to use the Australian 1.5 ratio roller rockers in order to get the valves to close all of the way. The 1.6's would not allow the vales to close. That means we might be able to separate the lobes more and still be fine with lifter preload. It really depends on the head. A head with seats and valves that have been cut a couple of times, will put the valve top further up. It will load the lifter more than a new head with the valve top further in the head.
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mstieg Newbie

mstieg

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Good advice DieHARDmitsu. TexasQuest: One problem I had was the person in Australia I was dealing with. The kid sent me 4 of 6 cams I paid for. Kept saying he would send the other 2, but I never saw them. Just another reason to keep me from staying in it. We'll see how mstieg's set up goes. That would be one I could order more of, if it works out well on his. I've had good results, but I want to see how his runs, and what he thinks about it. We could even mod it a touch, since he needed to use the Australian 1.5 ratio roller rockers in order to get the valves to close all of the way. The 1.6's would not allow the vales to close. That means we might be able to separate the lobes more and still be fine with lifter preload. It really depends on the head. A head with seats and valves that have been cut a couple of times, will put the valve top further up. It will load the lifter more than a new head with the valve top further in the head.

 

My head had the valve seats done for this recent build & MAY have been done before also (if TEP did that on their "Street Prep" setup??) *Disclaimer, bought the nearly new TEP longblock secondhand, with their TEP 272/274 cam in it (with moderate .435 lift), which I DID like, however the casting was poor and led to lobes getting worn away - possibly leading to the bad valve seats? That cam allowed very good low end response and pretty efficient high end power with moderate boost also, however other issues prevented much of a sample size.

 

I'll be able to dive into the car this week to finish wiring and hopefully get some answers sooner than later. Keep in mind that cam can only do what the rest of the setup is designed for.

 

OEM Magna Specs:

Inlet Opens 25º BTDC

Inlet Closes 61º ABDC

Inlet Duration 266º

Exhaust Opens 66º BBDC

Exhaust Closes 20º ABDC

Exhaust Duration 266º

Overlap 45º

Inlet Cam Lobe Height 42.50mm

Exhaust Cam Lobe Height 42.56mm

Nominal Cam Lift 10.50mm

 

At 266/266 and nearly stock lift, the OEM Magna roller cam will be fully open earlier & let off later for more flow. The mild head porting may help further. OEM Magna rockers are 1.55 ratio, with the Galant rollers being 1.5 (didn't use because we need 1/2 of 2 sets to line up the same). Good point Tim on the reworking raising the valve tips a bit, as that could be what prevented 1.6s from closing on mine, although I'm not the only one with that happening. In theory, I'm fine with a bit moderate lift anyhow, preferring smooth idle tune-ability of a less aggressive cam and letting the turbo take care of the rest.

Edited by mstieg
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Tim_C. Apprentice

Tim_C.

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Their cams are a bit crazy for the street. All require mech adjust slippers too. I had the same problem with a TEP cam being soft with a lobe that went flat on it. Schnieder's had issues like that too. Even with a proper break-in, some would not last very long. That was when they were using their own aftermarket blanks to grind from. The metal was not proper for a cast cam. My grinder tested them and said they were junk, and he could not use them to regrind either. Now they use OEM cores to grind from, so they should be fine except they don't understand that the lifters will not stay preloaded to the cam on any hydraulic cam they sell. They all require some type of lifter preloading modification. The same problem I have been addressing for years. Plus, they are doing the same as I had to do: they can't get the same lobe separation that they could when using new blanks to grind from. So they leave it the same as stock, or barely open it up if at all. That is one turbo grind characteristic that cannot be properly added to an OEM core grind without taking so much off of the base that either custom length valves are needed, or shims.
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Funky Phil Newbie

Funky Phil

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Have yall really "played" with cams? (not you Tim)

 

There is a LOT of bad info and magazine experts on here that havent actually tried squat. They just grab 5 diff cams and drop them in. They dont bother one bit with touching cam timing. Or worse, they dont have any tune capability at all. And they blame the cam. Half the guys cant get their mech lash set right to start with. And the cams your buying, you dont know squat about. Prolly had no business on a turbo car or a small hotside car to begin with. These are not F-1 cars and they never will be. Keep it simple. Saveyour money and you can build really good setups. Custom this and that is great if you like spending supercar money on economy car results.

 

Ask yourself, why do YOU need a different cam?

 

Sorry, [/rant]

 

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lionbull Newbie

lionbull

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stock mechanical. Why?

because no one has provided back to back dyno test on a degreed cam and proper tuning for me to bother with another cam

just made 418 torque and would of made alot more if my turbo did not surge at 4600rpm

going back to dyno soon with a different turbo. expecting hp and tq in the mid 400's on stock mech

Edited by lionbull
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  • 4 months later...
scott87star Contributor

scott87star

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And you should expect more with good turbine sizing. That is still only 125 ft/lbs per cylinder, no reason you can't get a reliable 150 per with a solid approach.
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lionbull Newbie

lionbull

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Use whatever you want brother

It is the application of a good combo of bolt-ons and good tuning that makes reliable numbers.

The stock cam is fine and that is what i wanted to prove.

I want an HKS to tune now.

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lionbull Newbie

lionbull

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Your last dyno was aborted prematurely because of compressor surge. You said 500lb/ft is what its making now. How much WHP then?

Did you dyno again?

 

http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=125228&st=0

 

periodically check the above thread for future updates and pictures please

Thanks

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