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Yet another 5.0/302 swap


helrazr70
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My swap is underway... mainly in the parts gathering stage right now. Here's a few of the things I have gathered:

 

-6 and -8 braided fuel line kits (20ft each and includes fittings and clamps)

-6 and -8 fuel rail adapters

-8 adaper for my inline 255lph Walbro

 

19x26 aluminum radiator and mounting bracket kit.

Dart Pro1 aluminum cylinder heads 2.05/1.60 195cfm runners

Ford Motorsport E303 camshaft

3/4" drop engine mounts (HP Motorsports)

Oil filter relocation kit.

New front sump oil pan with new pick-up tube/screen

Custom made long tube N/A headers that clear the steering box

EFI harness, computer, mass air sensor, 24lb injectors, inertia switch relays, etc...

T5 trans with Steeda TriAx shifter

Mallory Blaster 2 EFI coil

New clutch assy

"Ford Racing" valve covers

 

I am working on the hydraulic throwout bearing--probably going to be a McLeod with a -3 or -4 braided stainless line.

 

I already have a complete running 5.0 from an '89 Mustang LX 5.0. The aluminum heads and other engine parts will go on the 347 stroker that's coming next. My goal is 350-400 rwhp with the N/A 347. If I still want more, I will turbo it.

 

For right now I will just install the warmed up 302 I have and start building the monster later once the car is running and I am comfortable with the way the drivetrain is mounted and the EFI is wired properly.

 

I will get pics up later.

Edited by helrazr70
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Lame!!! What happened to "I'm gonna leave it stock?"

 

I need to come to the pull-a-part soon and I'll check it out in person.

 

Kane

 

 

I don't recall that statement...since when do I leave ANYTHING stock?

 

:)

 

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you gonna bring it to pigeon forge? :character0028:

 

At this point it's not looking good.

 

I am on call that weekend and nobody wants to trade with me.

 

I am keeping my fingers crossed though!

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I think the F150 bellhousing was deeper and the input shaft bearing retainer diameter was bigger. For me it's easier to choke up the $385 rather than deal with trial and error with parts that may or may not work.

 

McLeod reps told me that the 1400-30 bearing was the correct one for the Mustang T5 and Summit Racing confirmed it.

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...mp;autoview=sku

 

It will cost about $385 shipped.

 

I spent about 45 mins tonight removing all the P/S lines, P/S cooler lines, & P/S reservoir along with most everything from the passenger inner fender.

 

I also set my new radiator on the engine bay side of the core support to see if maybe I can leave it on that side. I will definitely have to have the filler neck removed and plugged. I will run a rad hose filler and a bleed screw on the radiator. I have a 94/95 Mustang serpentine set up to use and if I can set the engine as far back as possbile--I might be able to put the aluminum radiator in the factory location. I measured and it looks promising.

 

Fuel lines look like they will be a breeze. I bought a -8 adapter for my Walbro 255lph inline pump I will run -8 hose from there to the factory fuel rail using the -8 adapter for the pressure line. I will run return line from the -6 adapter to the tank where I will use a -6 elbow into the pick-up tube housing or the pipe that's there.

 

I will set the engine in and make my adjustments with the 3/4" drop mounts. I will then drill my holes in the motor mount pedestals. After that I will loosely bolt the stock Mustang mounts into those holes and then set the engine on the mounts--that way I can avoid slotting the pedestals. The 3/4" mounts will use the same holes as the stockers. I can just use them as a template. If the engine is to tall, I can go back to the drop mounts--or use a 94/95 Mustang intake manifold.

 

I will see where the trans mount hits when I set it all in there. If it is close enough to the factory location I will weld a 1/4" steel square plate to the factory crossmember and slot it accordingly. If my welded piece is too long and creates a lever effect, I will weld arms going the opposite direction and put bushings under them to act as snubbers to keep the mount level.

 

I should have a weight distribution that is as good or better than factory once I am finished. I have removed so much junk from the front end and the engine will have a lot of aluminum. I will be relocating the battery to the trunk for added weight savings on the front. The engine will be closer to the center of the car also.

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That prt# is right for the bearing..... Thats what I used in my T-5 tranny. The bearing works great and just slips on. Its a nice unit.

 

On another note, its just a thought, but you should probably decide wether or not you want to go turbo Before you build a 347.... Its going to need lower compression than an N/A engine to be most effective. Just my 2 cents. Godd luck with the project.

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That prt# is right for the bearing..... Thats what I used in my T-5 tranny. The bearing works great and just slips on. Its a nice unit.

 

On another note, its just a thought, but you should probably decide wether or not you want to go turbo Before you build a 347.... Its going to need lower compression than an N/A engine to be most effective. Just my 2 cents. Godd luck with the project.

 

I have considered that, but when you aren't sure how it's going to be in the end, it's easier to just stay with the higher 9.5+ compression and keep the boost around 5-8lbs in the beginning. If I decided to stay with a turbo set-up, I would probably do a piston swap.

 

There is a possibility that I may never use my turbo headers. A well built N/A 347 can yield 400rwhp. That may be plenty for me. I know the 408 stroker I built for my old '69 Mach 1, was plenty of power for that car. There comes a point with these cars that is overkill. What would I do with 600hp at the wheels if I can't get traction or keep transmissions or differentials intact? I want to stay streetable and have a car I can drive comfortably on the street and maybe run down the track occasionally. I am not out to build a full-blown race car at this point. I just want somethng that is fast, fun, and somewhat reliable. I got spoiled working on all the Mercedes AMG cars while I was a Master Technician for Mercedes Benz. It's great having a car that idles like a KIA but has 469hp to 604hp. It's amazing these days what can be done with technology.

 

After more consideration, I may just do a single turbo system. To get big power from a stroker engine, you need a lot of cam--and I want to keep the idle somewhat friendly. I may use forced induction (turbo) to compensate for running a smaller cam.

 

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i wouldnt worry about compression.im running stock bottom end with trick flow heads''61cc'' and mine sees 10lb without an innercooler with no problems.i did have to go with a better head gasket and msd btm though.id say youd be very happy with a na 347.thatll be plenty enough power+you wouldnt have to go with a huge injector.i was real happy with my 302 with the heads before i put the turbo on.id really like to see the engine mounts and how they go in.i slotted mine and id like to redo that part.if mine ever hooks it might want to rotate.if you do get to pf this year i should have the turbo 5.0 there and we'll go for a ride. :hmm3grin2orange:
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i wouldnt worry about compression.im running stock bottom end with trick flow heads''61cc'' and mine sees 10lb without an innercooler with no problems.i did have to go with a better head gasket and msd btm though.id say youd be very happy with a na 347.thatll be plenty enough power+you wouldnt have to go with a huge injector.i was real happy with my 302 with the heads before i put the turbo on.id really like to see the engine mounts and how they go in.i slotted mine and id like to redo that part.if mine ever hooks it might want to rotate.if you do get to pf this year i should have the turbo 5.0 there and we'll go for a ride. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

Here are my heads I have: (the ad is for a single bare head)

 

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...mp;autoview=sku

 

They are 62cc

 

I MAY be at PF this year... and would love to see what your car is capable of. I was hoping you would have it at PF last year!

 

The 347 will come eventually. Like I said before, I just want to get is running first and play with it a while as-is. Then as funds become available I will get the stroker kit.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here is my garage last week:

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/garage1.jpg

 

These are the polished stainless twin turbo headers I may use someday:

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/ttheaders.jpg

 

This is a pic of the crossmember modificatiosn so far:

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/xmember.jpg

 

Here is the drivetrain ready to go in for test-fitting:

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/engine1.jpg

 

Here is the engine almost seated when I took a break:

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/engine1.1.jpg

 

The passenger inner fender stripped of all it's unneeded stuff--the wiring will be trimmed as needed:

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/bay1.jpg

 

 

I will get more pics up soon. I am still massaging the firewall and trans tunnel for the bellhousing fitment

 

 

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NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! omg any v8 swap in a quest makes me wanna cry..... i personally think its a disgrace to the car.... nice work tho, its definitely a hard project to do, and takes skill and all, but you would rather go v8 than 4g63?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Graham

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NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! omg any v8 swap in a quest makes me wanna cry..... i personally think its a disgrace to the car.... nice work tho, its definitely a hard project to do, and takes skill and all, but you would rather go v8 than 4g63?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Graham

youd be surprised how nice of a car it makes.lookin good chris.if you get a chance,id drill out those spot welds for the p.s and cruise control brackets on the pass.side.youll need the extra room if you go t.t. wish i was closer,id give ya a weekend or two on it. id like to see the rad.keep us updated

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NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! omg any v8 swap in a quest makes me wanna cry..... i personally think its a disgrace to the car.... nice work tho, its definitely a hard project to do, and takes skill and all, but you would rather go v8 than 4g63?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Graham

 

I have had 9 of these cars and have never cared too much for the G54B. I started a 4G6/4G63 hybrid swap a few years ago and then decided based on the experiences of others that it is difficult to have a a reliable and fast 4G engine.

 

Brandon spent countless thousands of $$ to get 488rwhp with his 4G64/4G63. I can do the same for a lot less $$ with a V8. 350-400rwhp is attainable with a naturally aspirated stroker engine and 400+ is easily gained with a single turbo set-up. A twin turbo system would be overkill, but could produce enough torque and horsepower to literally break the engine block into pieces. My goal is to have around 350-400 reliable horsepower--and it's just too cool to have that V8 rumble coming from a Japanese car. :)

 

I have had many Mustangs over the years and I know tht the 5.0/302 Ford is a solid and reliable engine that can be built to produce some serious power. I just want a solid powerful drivetrain that I don't have to work on constantly.

 

To me a V8 isn't any more disgrace than a 4G63 because the car didn't come from the factory with either one. It is true that a turbo 4cyl is closer to factory specs than a V8, but either way we are swapping in something that was never meant to be there. I look at it this way: I am giving my car more power, greater parts availability, and a longer life. The cool factor is a little higher with a V8 though.

 

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youd be surprised how nice of a car it makes.lookin good chris.if you get a chance,id drill out those spot welds for the p.s and cruise control brackets on the pass.side.youll need the extra room if you go t.t. wish i was closer,id give ya a weekend or two on it. id like to see the rad.keep us updated

 

Brackets--Already in the plans. :)

 

I think I may grind the welds so that I don't have holes to fill in. I also have an old "spotburr 1000" that will leave only a 1/16 hole after the weld is ground down by the tool. Then I could just smooth the holes over with a black RTV sealant I have to blend them in.

 

My original plans were to put the radiator in the factory location. I am now thinking that I may be about 1/2' from being able to do that. I have had to persuade the firewall/tunnel area quite a bit to clear the bellhousing and don't know how much more I can get it to go back. I have the pan right against the crossmember as it .

 

Tim, I think your way with the slots and stock mounts let you locate your engine lower in the engine bay due to the flex of the rubber mounts. Looking at your pics, your bolt holes are further down on the perches than mine using the solid 3/4" drop mounts. I could possibly gain more rearward clearance if I could drop the engine lower. (I would probably have to notch the crossmember and then reinforce it with angle iron) If I were to slot the perches, I would probably weld in patch panels to fill the slots when finsihed and then when I wanted to pull the engine, I would just loosen the mount bolts and unbolt the block from the mounts.

 

The way it is now, the P/S pump snout is just a little long and close to the radiator. I could cut the snout of it off and tack weld it, but could never remove the pump pulley again without destroying it. I had the engine setting perfectly and the radiator in place with plenty of room. but the oil pan was on the crossmember and the bellhousing was off the engine.

 

I will keep monkeying with it. I have the driver side N/A header on now and I am seeing how much tolerance that lets me have.

Edited by helrazr70
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id really like to see a pic of the mounts youre using.its strange how your pan is on the crossmember and those holes that high.they must be alot diff.than mine.as far as the slots,i havent had any trouble with mine yet but i did think about spot welding the big washers on the bottom side so it wont slide.if you werent sure you could always just slot the pass.side and hole on the drivers side.i wouldnt advise unbolting the mounts from the engine because when pulling the motor you cant clear the bellhousing past them.youd still have to take the mounts off the perches before the motor would come out.i learned that on my red quest.
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It's official, I will have to mount the radiator on the front side of the crossmember. I just bolted everything down and the custom header's #3 tube placement is right against the steering box where I have everything. I can't align the header. The whole assy will have to come forward about an inch. I will redrill the mounts instead of the crossmember.

 

The oil pan sump is touching the front edge of the crossmember. It still sits above the crossmember fine.

 

Here are my mounts:

 

http://www.dallasmustang.com/mustang-parts...L-3-4-DROP/8881

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ok i see ,on the oil pan.those headers are sooo tough.it looks like those mounts will give you plenty of room to play with.if you need any pics of either of my cars for reference just let me know.is this the same black quest you had at pf last yr? Edited by tim si
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Yep, same quest.

 

I saved all the relevant pics from your album. I just compared pics of our pedestals. Your holes aren't much lower than mine. My holes are about 2 inches above the factory holes. I have to grind off the locator pins from the stock mounts if I try to use them later though...

 

The TT headers can't happen until after I convert to rack and pinion. Single turbo is more likely and won't happen for a while. Those mounts will allow room when I do though. For now I have a nice set of custom built long tube headers.

 

I just have to redrill either the mounts or the pedestals to move the engine forward. These custom long tube headers were made on another car and I just checked the pics of when he had these on his car--he had to redrill his mounts too.

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Newest Update:

 

I have been moving kinda alow on this thing due to personal circumstances.

 

...but I got to spend a few hours Sunday repositioing the engine and redrilling for the new mount holes. I have the engine where I think it will stay for a while. (until I either get new headers or go turbo)

 

I trimmed a junk trans crossmember to mock up my trans mount. I think I am going with a 60's Mustang trans mount on a modified factory crossmember that has been moved back to the rear holes. The second option for a trans mount is a 70's Triumph TR6 mount which share the same bolt spacing as the T5 but is a little shorter in height.

 

I also have been trying to find ways around the $385 hydraulic throwout bearing. I have an idea that involves a $16.95 Toyota truck slave cylinder and some angle iron. We will see how it pans out.

 

I did find a perfect slave cylinder for $180 but my headers wont allow it's positioning. So, My new idea with the 'yota slave is the new path for now.

 

I also have been looking at radiator hose options for moving the radiator to the other side of the core support. I could use the Mitsu radiator without the electric fans in the stock position--but I have this nice big aluminum radiator that needs a home. Summit sells flexible metal radiator hoses with rubber ends in varied lengths. They also sell heater core hoses the same way. I may go that route on both.

 

Rather than use a Mustang gas pedal as I had planned, I may just modify the Conquest pedal to accept the Mustang cable and bend the upper pedal shaft for the proper distance from the firewall.

 

I have also found out that a Ford Fairmont speedo cable is a possibility to connect to the SQ cluster for now until I go all aftermarket on gauges. With a functional speedo, the only gauge that won't work is the tach--and I could recalibrate it if I really felt like it. I could probably take an 80's Mustang cluster and swipe the tach selector switch circuitry where you select 4cyl or 8cyl...

 

Well, that's all for now! :)

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/eng1.jpg

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/trans1.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by helrazr70
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I got my slave cylinder figured out. I had very little clearance to mount an early Mustang style aftermarket kit and I couldn't use a pull type slave because of my headers...

 

I did it with easy to find parts.

 

It was cheap!

 

I have less than $20 in the slave and bracketry! I used a 80's/90's Toyota 4X4 slave cylinder ($13.16 at AutoZone) and a piece of 1/4" thick steel that I paid less than $2.00 for at TSC. The steel piece I used already had some holes drilled into it, but they weren't where I needed them. I will make another one using this one as a template from a solid steel strip one day--for now this one is fine.

 

I used a grinder and drill to mount the slave to the steel and then made the assembly fit the trans case using 2 eyelets cast into the trans housing. All the stress from the slave actuation will be on the bracket and trans case, not the bellhousing. The slave pushes the fork through a hole drilled in the bellhousing. It won't have as much leverage where the pushrod will hit the fork, but it will work fine.

 

I will find an adjustable push rod and then drill a hole in the fork. With a couple of jam nuts I will be ready to go!

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/slave2.jpg

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/slave1.jpg

 

http://www.digitalimagehosting.com/imagestore/messageboard/helrazr70/slave3.jpg

Edited by helrazr70
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