Jump to content



Opinions Vary (current rebuild, blah blah blah)

build

  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Ptracy262

Ptracy262

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OP
  • Model:Other

Posted 11 September 2018 - 10:53 PM

Current Rebuild,  so wide open and curious to the masses your thoughts.  

Static, meaning what i have
20g td06h 8cm2
Chad equal length Tube header (a T3 imprint???)  Cyclone/Typhoon setup
Ext Wastegate setup - Tial 35mm

Going (Middle of rebuild - HAVE)
MPI -
IDX 1000x4 high imped.
Chad Custom Intake (MPI)
MS2 Batch firing,  stock harness/lock dist. etc...

Extras:
M6/7 head,  can't remember rebuilt all the goodies (Meaning rebuilt titanium valves springs - ported)
L19 material head studs

Block was just inspected,  want to go .20 over bore, and .10 on bearings

I'm going all forged, however that plays out.

Engine builder,  is all over the place.  Now, wants me to go forged JE's .20 over same stock compression and run 20-30lbs of boost.  I get it.

Or

8:0:1 (turbo forged pistons)
(same exhaust setup)/ or (ballbearing turbo / twin scroll  (who makes that lol)

or

8:5:1 (non turbo forged pistons)
(same exhaust setup)/ or (ballbearing turbo / twin scroll  (who makes that lol)

or

custom forged pistons
Compression?


in the end,  I know or understand about the balance of Higher compression pistons and boost management.  But I want to be schooled more when I pick the final build  (next 3 weeks or so) to tell them let s go this route.

Yes, tranny can be in trouble next.  but My goal is 350hp,  but open to 400 too hahah.  

What Balance would you recommend on above?





#2 Woody

Woody

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Starions

Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:12 AM

I'm just wanting to watch this space closely :) I need to decide what I want to build also. You should get 350hp easy with 20psi
www.sweetfrostings.com.au

#3 speedyquest

speedyquest

    Established Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Crosse Wisconsin
  • Interests:bmx, cars, computers
  • Model:Starion

Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:37 AM

Making 350hp shouldn't be too hard even with a completely stock bottom end with the turbo and injectors you already have. It kinda depends on how "safe" you want to go. The lower your compression ratio is the larger safety margin you have. To further increase that tuning safety margin you could run E85 too. But basically you could take a stock long block, bolt your manifolds, injectors, and turbo to it, tune it, and make 350. You can toss as much money as you like at it but really it sounds like you've got most of what you need already.

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


Posted Image


Build Thread --->  http://www.starquest...opic=143564&hl=


#4 button

button

    Rest dummy with dial indicator

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,026 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Niles, Mi
  • Interests:1978 Plymouth Arrow
    1974 Dodge Colt
    1990 F45 Tow Rig
    2011 Honda CR-Z
  • Model:Other

Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:55 AM

If you don't have to turn the crank, don't. Same with the block.
If you have to turn it, get the crank nitride coated after it's cut.
On MPI, 8.5:1 isn't high enough compression to justify E85.
go 8.5, use the m6/7 with beefier springs, l19s, keep the 20g, run 25+psi, maybe get a cam.
Just my opinion.
-Jay

#5 ucw458

ucw458

    This will mean the extinction of all life forms on this planet.

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
  • Model:Conquest

Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:59 PM

I run weisco 7:1 forged in mine.  That's the stock compression ratio.  Makes good power.  8:1 pistons are fine for mild goals.  They give you a little more off boost power.  But if you want to crank up the boost you run into timing and fuel issues.  As in retarding timing and high octane fuel to prevent detonation.  7:1 pistons give you the option of more boost on pump gas.  

Everyone wants to make a high HP car.  But in reality high HP costs more in time/money than a reasonable goal.  Many end up with an unfinished car that gets parted out after sitting for years.  If you set a reasonable goal and stick to it you'll enjoy the car more.  I wish I had done that from the start.  Mine has been unfinished for years.  Tuning has turned out to be the biggest hurdle.  Find someone you trust to tune your car BEFORE going MPI.  


Don't bore the block or turn the crank unless you are fixing damage.  Boring the block doesn't add noticable HP.  Turning the crank just makes it weaker.
My 87
Posted Image

#6 Funky Phil

Funky Phil

    Super Pooper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6,446 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Missouri
  • Model:Conquest

Posted 12 September 2018 - 07:05 PM

8.5 wiseco from Randy. Any lower and your just leaving hp out of the engine bay. No problems running that on pump gas and 400hp

I agree with everyone though, keep cash in your pocket and dont work anything you dont need.

10.95@120mph  https://m.youtube.co...h?v=8Q01UKt5q4U
Built G54B, S364, R154, stock 6-bolt, fireballs

#7 Woody

Woody

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Interests:Starions

Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:54 PM

What about conrods? Do you guys just run the stock ones?
www.sweetfrostings.com.au

#8 Ptracy262

Ptracy262

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OP
  • Model:Other

Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:59 AM

Had the car rebuilt by a local member,  went Maft GenII piggy back as well.  Just a tear down,  with a mild clean up in the cylinders - same pistons.  400 miles later the balance shaft went. Sat for 2 years.  Said enough,  going all out at this point. I didn't know what went wrong until this last tear down now at a machine shop (3 weeks ago), when then told me about the balance shaft.  So they came back with .20 over and .10 on bearings. All out too on peripherals - funk lock (FP) - coilovers (LG) - led tail lights w/sequence (MC) - wiper cowl, besides the 10k in other items I spent over the last 20+ years.  Thanks folks for the opinions!

#9 jinx

jinx

    Established Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,965 posts
  • Interests:I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:34 AM

Quote

What about conrods? Do you guys just run the stock ones?
stock conrods held up in many beasts. Fine for any street car imo

#10 jonboyb

jonboyb

    Established Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,610 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Interests:Not saving money
  • Model:Conquest

Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:48 AM

On a somewhat related topic....has anyone confirmed the Weisco 8.5 pistons actually produce that high of a ratio?  We did some volume testing on a stock T head and Felpro 9116T gasket at the machine shop and came in considerably lower than that (much closer to 8:1) and the 8.5's we had Ross Pistons build were straight up flat-tops with eyebrows.  The 9:1's I built my race engine with from Ross actually had a small center dome.

Edited by jonboyb, 13 September 2018 - 08:49 AM.

87 Valencia Quest - MPI MSII
84 Mezzon Gold Dodge Conquest - Timecapsule
16 Durango RT - Modded
19 Ecoboost F-150....Cause TT is Better than a V8

Posted Image

#11 speedyquest

speedyquest

    Established Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,221 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:La Crosse Wisconsin
  • Interests:bmx, cars, computers
  • Model:Starion

Posted 13 September 2018 - 08:57 AM

View Postjonboyb, on 13 September 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

On a somewhat related topic....has anyone confirmed the Weisco 8.5 pistons actually produce that high of a ratio?  We did some volume testing on a stock T head and Felpro 9116T gasket at the machine shop and came in considerably lower than that (much closer to 8:1) and the 8.5's we had Ross Pistons build were straight up flat-tops with eyebrows.  The 9:1's I built my race engine with from Ross actually had a small center dome.

This is getting into a realm that I'm not well versed in but wouldn't that really depend on each specific motor too? How much the block and / or head have been milled is just as important from what I know. So by that logic I'd imagine they are using some stated "OEM" spec to calculate the pistons hypothetical compression but every situation will be different.

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


Posted Image


Build Thread --->  http://www.starquest...opic=143564&hl=


#12 jonboyb

jonboyb

    Established Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,610 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alpharetta, GA
  • Interests:Not saving money
  • Model:Conquest

Posted 13 September 2018 - 09:41 AM

Exactly Speedy.....the scenario we used with uncut factory block/head and stock valves with stock replacement gasket would have produced a minimum compression ratio, but if I were a piston manufacturer that would also be where I designated the compression ratio....LOL.

Edited by jonboyb, 13 September 2018 - 09:41 AM.

87 Valencia Quest - MPI MSII
84 Mezzon Gold Dodge Conquest - Timecapsule
16 Durango RT - Modded
19 Ecoboost F-150....Cause TT is Better than a V8

Posted Image

#13 Funky Phil

Funky Phil

    Super Pooper

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 6,446 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Missouri
  • Model:Conquest

Posted 13 September 2018 - 07:41 PM

My flattops came out to 8.6 with m28 73cc chambers, Ajusa. Piston recess at like .028 or somethin, have to find the specifics.
10.95@120mph  https://m.youtube.co...h?v=8Q01UKt5q4U
Built G54B, S364, R154, stock 6-bolt, fireballs

#14 Ptracy262

Ptracy262

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OP
  • Model:Other

Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:29 AM

Builder is advising me he's talking to JE for pistons,   I  know I can get Wiesco's (Randy) but JE still in the game???  

He wants to go all Forged,  JE's .20 over with stock compression (forged 7:0:1), and forged rods? where can you get forged rods ?  I've seen 875$ on line (fugeasee),  whoa

I'm thinking, Randy Weisco's , flat top 8:5:1 (Randy recommends .66 dish in stock, ? 8:0:1, or flats? 8:5:1(3 week order))

ALSO I have now a set of refurb rods I just bought from a trusted member,  Shot peened balanced, upgraded ARP bolts, solid lub etc.. etc..  refurb con rods,  done by Dad (muah),  builder thinks these will be a weak link for 350-400 hp range,  Really?

At this point,  I want 8:5:1 Weisco forged pistons (yes JBoy depending on deck/head, what is the true compression in the end,  and why I offered you mo money for your Ross piston engine and the headaches I'm facing now lol, wink),  use the refurb rods,  again all the goodies above, New MPI, Ms2, IDX, New TB 4.6, New Intercooler/pipping, header, turbo combo,  why not????

#15 Ptracy262

Ptracy262

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 111 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:OP
  • Model:Other

Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:38 AM

So, summarized,   Forged Pistons wiescos 8:5:1, flat tops,  refurb rods stock material.  range of 350-400 hp,  MPI MS2,  cool?

#16 croquest87

croquest87

    Established Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,719 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:willoughby
  • Interests:all things mechanical
  • Model:Conquest

Posted 14 September 2018 - 05:52 AM

Stock rods will hold that kind of HP w no problem. Stock rods are forged.If all other conditions are there with proper tune. Pre ignition is what causes rod failure. In other words if you are trying to send piston down while piston is still on compression stroke. It is forced against two opposing forces and bumsky  piston/rod likes to find it's way through the side of the block.lol and lots of oil and smoke.Many people have run stock motor in good shape w tbi set up to 300-400 w good results  properly fueled and tuned.
At the dragstrip people have $100.000+ in their engines and tech to run it. It's very common to see pieces flying in the air. If that's what you are into? Better have lots of Benjamins laying around.

Edited by croquest87, 14 September 2018 - 06:04 AM.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users