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#41 Indiana

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 11:37 PM

I never removed the cam but I could and I'd not be surprised if the base is larger diameter and there is no difference in the valves and I don't think the lobes are as pointed and being the ratio or higher and the roller wheel changes I'd say its the opposite and that the open close points and lift may have not changed with.  I have a folder on just the TS engine the guy sent me with the head, it has already been cleaned and checked out and I got the valve cover.  Why in the last stages of life would they have bothered to make unique rockers, valves and springs for a head that was only made for 3 model years?  I'm just guessing that part like I said I haven't taken it apart after I got it over a year ago I just sat it down and put it away in a plastic bag and went on working.





#42 Shelby

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 06:47 AM

i seem to recall the Tainters had a huge cam in their stock quest head and  swap'd it over to the magna head it   hit the casting under the cam lobes , not sure if the cam  center line is lower or more alum in the head under the  lobe area
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#43 Caliber308

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 08:39 PM

QUOTE (Tim_C. @ Oct 18 2008, 02:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going ahead with getting one of the Magna cams and rockers in. The only problem I see maybe is making a bolt-in roller without at least using some shims in the rocker. I think we should be able to do something relatively stock, and it should bolt-in with just some shims like I use on the performance grinds.


But Indiana says using shims is a "sucky, noisy, hack" way to do things??? Well, He hasn't listened to my engine or driven my car with 1.6 roller rockers, Tims roller cam and Tims SHIMS!!!! There's more than just Indianas way to do things, Does my Tim C. set up work? My car has been running this set up for 3 years now without problems to 7000 rpms. P.S. It's not noisy, and certainly not hacked.

CALIBER 308

Edited by Caliber308, 18 October 2008 - 09:43 PM.

87 ESI-R: J.E.s 8 to 1 .040 over, Tims roller cam, Roller rockers,Marnal Head(ported and polished) Scheider HD valvesprings, SS Valves,Zero bal,TDO5H 17 C, K.V., OVC HP, Turbo X/S RFL, Aeromotive FPR, 950/1150 injectors, Walbro , MAF-T, AEM UEGO, Summit dig. CD Ignition. box , Mallory 67k coil,D2s.

#44 Indiana

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Posted 19 October 2008 - 10:30 PM

Those mashed washers under the lifters is a CHIT idea period if you think otherwise prove it

How ATE UP is the inside of the rocker arm?  

That stainless steel WASHER slipping around under there you think its not going to chew up that ALUMINUM?

Where does that ALUMINUM end up?

INSIDE the high pressure chamber of the lifter of course

You car develop a strange MISS?
Loss of power you can't explain?
You have to "bleed" your lifters from time to time?

Think about it moron THEY SUCK

#45 Metric-man

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:29 AM

QUOTE (Indiana @ Oct 19 2008, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Those mashed washers under the lifters is a CHIT idea period if you think otherwise prove it

How ATE UP is the inside of the rocker arm?  

That stainless steel WASHER slipping around under there you think its not going to chew up that ALUMINUM?

Where does that ALUMINUM end up?

INSIDE the high pressure chamber of the lifter of course

You car develop a strange MISS?
Loss of power you can't explain?
You have to "bleed" your lifters from time to time?

Think about it moron THEY SUCK


Indiana,
Kelly and chris viper have perfected the slipper and roller setup
they won't give out any specs on the cam but Ivan's yellow beast is over 500hp with a roller setup.
I've seen a couple of the cylinder-heads Kelly makes with a slipper setup and manual lifters those cams are the shizits.!!

The nature of the slipper is it's close profile I don't think there is a roller made that is small enough to follow the same profile.
That and one less extra moving part to stress.

There is another way to raise the non 83 height valve and save the valve seals and save spring binding.
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#46 Tim_C.

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 07:31 AM

Yes, of course a custom valve set-up is the best, but a few hundred dollars more expensive. I've designed several different set-ups from the beginning (years ago) that work with people's budgets.
1. The preferred set-up: Custom length valves that do two things: Properly preload the lifters, and move the groove up some for more stem seal clearance. However, more stem seal clearance isn't as important as proper spring tension. The roller lobe will float the valves over 5500RPM or so if the tension falls below 100 seat pressure. New springs lose 10Lbs or so very early in their life. You really don't need to move the groove up if you have the proper spring tension.
2. Using the '83 valve to give you a little more of both preload and seal clearance. This works in many applications, but not the more agressive ones, and it depends on the head you are starting with. Old head, new head, marnal, OEM, etc..
3. Shimming the lifter inside the rocker to preload the lifter. With the proper spring tension, this works fine in some applications. I have this set-up working for 25,000+ miles on one of my cars.
The only drawback from the shims has been that they can break in two if the lifters fully lose their pump and the operator tries revving it high with a ticking lifter.
The inside of the rocker arm can get indented, but I've never seen one chew up aluminum. The stock lifters indent them too. That is one reason the OEM hydraulic set-ups have ticking problems. The whole design of an aluminum rocker taking the abuse from the lifter is not the best, but the lightweight arm gives you a large advantage over anything stronger.
Of course the valve can be raised. That is listed on my instructions from years ago. But that requires more machining and more money to move the seats up for the best result, or sink the valve more into the seat to get a little more for much less money.
Or do what Dad has always suggested, and does, is shave some room off the top of the stem seal boss to lower the seal. That at least gives you more clearance, but doesn't help preload.
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#47 Tim_C.

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 07:49 AM

QUOTE (Metric-man @ Oct 20 2008, 03:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Indiana,
Kelly and chris viper have perfected the slipper and roller setup
they won't give out any specs on the cam but Ivan's yellow beast is over 500hp with a roller setup.
I've seen a couple of the cylinder-heads Kelly makes with a slipper setup and manual lifters those cams are the shizits.!!

The nature of the slipper is it's close profile I don't think there is a roller made that is small enough to follow the same profile.
That and one less extra moving part to stress.


Making big HP isn't the challenge. Making it last long is. There have been many big HP engines that get torn down way too often. The challenge is making enough HP, and making it last. Not all of us want to tear into our engines all the time.

Kelly doesn't make heads. There are quite a few decent slipper cams out there, but those are easy to get results from because they are very fast acting. Also, proper rocker arm geometry and function goes a long way to getting more out of it. You can't just throw in an old set of worn slippers and expect it to perform well on a higher profile cam than before. That's why I sell upgraded refurbished assemblies that function perfectly (better than OEM) and retain the correct geometry as good or better than OEM.

Rollers follow much steeper profiles than any slip rocker can. I guess I don't follow your 'close profile' logic. It's the other way around. No slipper can follow a roler lobe, but any roller can follow a slipper lobe.
'87TSi .510Roller Cam, JE Forged, TS Rings & plateau honed walls, lightened rods, race prepped crank, mains line honed, balanced, 17C, 3"EX, 2"HardPipes, AlFly, rrfpr, 88trans, 3.90's w/posi plate mods, polyBushings, STSprings, KYBStruts, Camber Plates, CustomAlternator
Traded for new set of tires for my wife's Buick: '87 TSI Gold that needs just about all steering and suspension parts replaced, injectors, a new transmission, clutch, and various electrical gremlins. New owner is a mechanic who is already driving it. I couldn't stand letting it sit any more!
'86 ESiR - OEM Roller Cam, Wiseco Forged 8:1 Pistons, Chad's equal length header, TEP T3/T4 turbo, ACT HD clutch, Fidanza Fly, custom 3" exhaust, 3 core oversized radiator, O-ringed block, AJUSA metal shim head gasket, Dawes Device boost controller
'85 Plymouth Conquest Auto , Wiseco 8:1, super light pins, shaved rods, hi-torque cam, 2.5 Exhaust
'84 Dodge Conquest Parts car
'83 Starion - Gutted stock exhaust with '87 TSi muffler, New engine with: BS Elim,forged Wisecos,balanced,Schneider274H,marnal w/oversized stainless valves
'83 Cannonball Run II Jackie Chan car, Basic ring and bearing job w/less than 6K original miles on body, steering, suspension, & rear end, Lightened stock fly, BS Elim, Walbro 255LPH FP, NEW Clearwater head with all new parts, intercooled, 14G turbo, 2750 car weight
'96 Mitsu Mirage w/rebuilt head. Gets 35+MPG.
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#48 Indiana

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:50 AM

A new cam with a larger base would eliminate the need for a shim = $
A machined rocker with a new insert would eliminated the need for a shim = $
A rocker re-designed for a mechanical screw, which is what I'd do, would eliminate the need for a shim = $
Seats installed or cut lower, the correct valves, chamber ported,  would eliminate the need for the shim = $

this is changing compression ratio, chamber shape, flame burn but at least those shims aren't used

Yes we used shims on two different motors, one new, one fine it was the original 89 engine from the car I sent to CNM and I stll have it.  The rebuilt motor broke the end out of a rocker arm, the other motor they would come and go as far as being noisy.  Eventually the old motor was loosing so, and both motors had NEW lifters installed at the time the shims were installed, so much it was like a 3cly and it wasn't running worth a damn.  I never liked at all how the motor ran using these with a stock cam.  Too many people pull these from a junkyard car and want to use them and that will not work.  Saying will not work doesn't mean the motor won't run it will but it SUCKS.  Using a stock reground cam isn't going to be able to increase the base so you will still need the shims.  The shims are two more surfaces to make noise, to require oiling, oil mashes from the surfaces and that is effecting valve lift.  If valve lift is sooo so critical to the point you are measuring it in 1000ths well guess what the thickness of two oiled surfaces is?  How much oil pressure is in the rocker shafts at 6000rpms pushing those DAMN SHIMS as the valves are being closed?  Worn rocker shafts, worn JUNKYARD roller rockers and shims the may not get any oil.  People aren't concerned about these details they hear "roller rocker" and jump.  If you have 85psi oil pressure, a lifter, a shim and a stock spring (those are 78lb installed height btw) what is going on with your valve lift-open-close points?  Too many oiled surfaces are changing open/close points when the engine is RUNNING and you degree your cam with it NOT RUNNING.  

See any reason for a mechanical adjuster at high rpms now?

All you need is the correct cam to use them.  

They have specs listed for the stock cam for the valve opening and closing points, sorry if you degree the cam and use the intake for your centerline do you know that the exhaust is WAY OFF?  I mean its frickin WAY off.  Why?  The lash from the mechanical lifters is a big factor of the opening and closing points of the valves.  The stock screws that wear very quickly on the ends is changing those opening and closing degrees as you drive your car.  Weekly you could degree that cam and it would be off from where you set it from that wear.  You are supposed to readjust the screws once a year as routine maintenance for just a stock motor?  What about your new motor?  

Why did we decide to use those swivel feet in the first place?  It was because those stock screws also SUCK and they suck allot more than shims under a lifter.  

The guy I got the TS head from, he said he would tell me if I was interested the things they do to rev this motor to 10k rpms.  this isn't done over here and its not on some lame AU starion board either.  Another AU guy I talk to has billet cranks made in Cali. but nobody here wanted to deal with him his parts were "too expensive".   You got to get off this GP chit and spend some $$$.  Those GP sell you crap nobody will buy in the first place why would it be on "sale" if it was selling?  

No, sorry I haven't seen a head Kelly has made as a result of the car Chris tuned  but I'd suspect its the cam he was working on over a year ago along with some porting, OS valves and springs -and I bet he isn't using Schneider springs either.  

Taking the two cams roller or not and looking at a graph with the ramps and open/close rates and the duration/overlap gets you information but until its tested what's the point but in the end they since both made by Mitsubishi they should be the SAME.  If they weren't the same then why did they keep the same cam for so damn long; it was over TEN years?  I'd pick the cam that did the job and I'd prefer to not have a regrind.

Its still all about the cam and if there is corrected cam for the open/close points great I just don't have one yet and I've never checked what Schneider did exactly either.  I don't have as much against the slipped cam as you may think but if I had to pick  if both were there in front of me I'd pick the roller but if the roller had those shims I'd pick the slipper.

and no I don't care and nobody else should either that your motor is "fine" and you don't think its "noisy" you can apply the same comments to tires so what that isn't any reason to want to have the same thing as you do but beat it with a stick until its DEAD you do every time.

#49 jinx

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 03:07 PM

there are too many reports of roller setup problems for the g54 imo. They just seem
too complex.... and what performance advantage have they shown for the effort?
If you go that route, follow a proven recipee to the T
Compare the costs, then draw your own conclusions.

Since you're changing a cam in search of enhanced performance, head straight over to
the dyno page to see what's "making power".  
http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8890
The torque curve vs rpm is the ONLY true yardstick.
TEP race, HKS, KDM(roller?), Schnieder & stock cam used in majority of those setups.
I'd stick to the "simpler" & less costly valvetrain (the fastest 2.6s ran 'em).

You may find that a stock cam will suffice, rather than opening a can of worm$$$$.
Camshaft is the last single part I'd change on a performance G54 build. So you can
clearly 'evaluate' its effect

this torquey 4cyl should have no problem hitting 30+ mpg well tuned (that's if you
can keep your foot out of it), with any 'mild' cam

#50 Caliber308

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 08:39 PM

All I can tell the membership is this.... I've been running 1.6 rollers with Tims shims, Tims roller cam, stock height valves, Scheider springs, Stock hydraulic rocker shafts (not drilled), stock rocker shaft springs and washers on a Marnal head. I have experienced no shims breaking, no aluminum pieces flying around the oil pan or engine(i'm sure i'd see them at my oil changes) no reduced oil pressure and no engine performance fall off. All this for three years reving to 7000 rpms. So you tell me. Does it, or does it not work? I have never had a rocker assembly problem with this engine, PERIOD!!!! Some members can rattle off all kinds of problems with Roller set ups. Personally, I must have set up mine the correct way. And I might add this: With Tim Cs help. If you think there are no performance gains with this set up.... Ask Shelby. He had a write up about the performance gains with Roller set ups.

CALIBER 308

Edited by Caliber308, 20 October 2008 - 08:59 PM.

87 ESI-R: J.E.s 8 to 1 .040 over, Tims roller cam, Roller rockers,Marnal Head(ported and polished) Scheider HD valvesprings, SS Valves,Zero bal,TDO5H 17 C, K.V., OVC HP, Turbo X/S RFL, Aeromotive FPR, 950/1150 injectors, Walbro , MAF-T, AEM UEGO, Summit dig. CD Ignition. box , Mallory 67k coil,D2s.

#51 Dad

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 08:49 PM

QUOTE (Caliber308 @ Oct 20 2008, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All I can tell the membership is I've been running 1.6 rollers with Tims shims, Tims roller cam, stock height valves, Schinder springs, Stock rocker shafts (not drilled), stock rocker shaft springs and washers on a Marnal head. I have experienced no shims breaking, no aluminum pieces flying around the oil pan or engine, no reduced oil pressure and no engine performance fall off. All this for three years revving to 7000 rpms. So you tell me. Does it, or does it not work? I have never had a rocker assembly problem with this engine, PERIOD!!!! Some members can rattle off all kinds of problems with Roller set ups. Personally, I must have set up mine the correct way. And I might add, With Tim Cs help.

CALIBER 308



Tim Knows his stuff,  your post proves it, however  I am like Indy,  I don't care for the shims,  I have installed Tims shims,  but personally I don't care for the idea,
I question the longevity.  Be ok on my personal engine  but I get a bit skeptical  When I have to   stand behind it.  I will say that the couple that  I did use shims on  it did work.

I would just like to see something better, and I'm sure Tim would rather see a better alternative and not use shims,  But in this Conquest world ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Dad

#52 Caliber308

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE (Dad @ Oct 21 2008, 01:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tim Knows his stuff,  your post proves it, however  I am like Indy,  I don't care for the shims,  I have installed Tims shims,  but personally I don't care for the idea,
I question the longevity.  Be ok on my personal engine  but I get a bit skeptical  When I have to   stand behind it.  I will say that the couple that  I did use shims on  it did work.

I would just like to see something better, and I'm sure Tim would rather see a better alternative and not use shims,  But in this Conquest world ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Dad


I too would like to see a roller set up without shims. Would it be custom valves, a different profile Roller cam or the Roller rocker itself. It could most likely be done, but at what cost? And would you have enough of a market for the part or parts to make it worth the time and experimentation? With what we have now to work with, I think it is uncalled for, for a member to say that this set up is "SUCKY and HACK". I don't like to recommend a set up like mine without proving it works first. It works for Tim and it works for me. Another member who has run a set up like this is Richie_Rich. So to say its "SUCKY and HACK" is beyond me confused0024.gif

CALIBER 308

Edited by Caliber308, 20 October 2008 - 09:25 PM.

87 ESI-R: J.E.s 8 to 1 .040 over, Tims roller cam, Roller rockers,Marnal Head(ported and polished) Scheider HD valvesprings, SS Valves,Zero bal,TDO5H 17 C, K.V., OVC HP, Turbo X/S RFL, Aeromotive FPR, 950/1150 injectors, Walbro , MAF-T, AEM UEGO, Summit dig. CD Ignition. box , Mallory 67k coil,D2s.

#53 Indiana

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 12:09 AM

When I start kissing a** you'll know it but don't look for it to happen in this lifetime.  This is about a motor not a baby contest.   If there would have been a way around using shims he would have never used them I'm sure.  I've used a few different cams from Tim and I've had no problems at all with them but those shims we did try I said that and I'd not use them again and I told you what happened to them and  this isn't an isolated case.  You do have an alternative to the shims and we also tried this and posted about it and you may have just forgotten but it was to use LASH CAPS.   Your good buddy Chad used them too.  You can't get good lash caps for the price of some mashed washers though, last set I paid almost 100.00 for.  Tried some cheap china chit VW lash caps, they like their china swivel and china elephant feet also SUCK.

#54 Tim_C.

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 02:48 PM

Man, this is all some really good stuff! I'm really glad Indiana brought up the old used rockers and shafts factor too! When you see a set of refurbished shafts that actually work better than OEM, your eyes really get opened to how much better it runs.
The reason I don't use lash caps is because it takes a special valve to run them too. More $. The valve must have an extended tip above the groove to run it on a hydraulic set-up. My first roller cam set-up required that because it was just before a custom valve could be ordered with a hardened tip, so I had to run caps for the hardening. Otherwise the lash caps will pop out because lifters tend to lose their pump and sometimes need a quick repump on cold starts (that's my theory anyway, but I didn't have a video cam under the vlave cover to see when they came out!). I've looked into caps that have a sharp tit to dig into the valve, but I didn't like that idea, and my machinist says they come out too. Plus, all they do is ruin the valve tip and don't stick well. We could maybe try soft valves with that style lash cap?

I could easily come up with a better shim that perfectly fits the rocker and epoxy them in place similar to the way the slippers are adhered to the slip rocker arm. But, that would add weight out on the end of the rocker. Something we try to avoid especially with a cam lobe profile that requires considerable more spring pressure.

The stock cam is fine to flow out what it flows in, but it gets there by wasting the charge. It is the worst design for a turbo engine unless you want to raise the boost to an unreasonable level (for the majority of applications) and not worry about how much gets wasted. The same and more power can be made with less boost and a good cam.
'87TSi .510Roller Cam, JE Forged, TS Rings & plateau honed walls, lightened rods, race prepped crank, mains line honed, balanced, 17C, 3"EX, 2"HardPipes, AlFly, rrfpr, 88trans, 3.90's w/posi plate mods, polyBushings, STSprings, KYBStruts, Camber Plates, CustomAlternator
Traded for new set of tires for my wife's Buick: '87 TSI Gold that needs just about all steering and suspension parts replaced, injectors, a new transmission, clutch, and various electrical gremlins. New owner is a mechanic who is already driving it. I couldn't stand letting it sit any more!
'86 ESiR - OEM Roller Cam, Wiseco Forged 8:1 Pistons, Chad's equal length header, TEP T3/T4 turbo, ACT HD clutch, Fidanza Fly, custom 3" exhaust, 3 core oversized radiator, O-ringed block, AJUSA metal shim head gasket, Dawes Device boost controller
'85 Plymouth Conquest Auto , Wiseco 8:1, super light pins, shaved rods, hi-torque cam, 2.5 Exhaust
'84 Dodge Conquest Parts car
'83 Starion - Gutted stock exhaust with '87 TSi muffler, New engine with: BS Elim,forged Wisecos,balanced,Schneider274H,marnal w/oversized stainless valves
'83 Cannonball Run II Jackie Chan car, Basic ring and bearing job w/less than 6K original miles on body, steering, suspension, & rear end, Lightened stock fly, BS Elim, Walbro 255LPH FP, NEW Clearwater head with all new parts, intercooled, 14G turbo, 2750 car weight
'96 Mitsu Mirage w/rebuilt head. Gets 35+MPG.
'87 Dodge Ram50 4WD Rebuilt engine, fresh stock head, Weber carbed, BS elim. Runs great now!
'97 Buick Ultra (supercharged Park Avenue)

#55 Indiana

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:21 PM

Those OS stainless valves have enough sticking up you can use the caps and there is clearance and those are what we last used on the last cam we got from you on Kurt cars back like 4 years ago.  I know I have close up pictures of that. I thought that the lash caps at that time were sticking to the tip, those OS valve have a hardened tip so that was ok, and then found out there is actually a puller for caps and its normal for them to stick.  I'd rather see an insert of some kind that threads into the rocker arm tip that is threaded in the center to put the swivel feet in, or stock adjuster screws to make the rollers mechanical.  You hear about valve float but its the hydraulic lifters, weak springs, back pressure from stock manifolds that is causing this and just changing to mechanical screws helps allot, we never had any valve float and rev'd up well past 7500rpms on stock used springs and I still have those.  Lots of energy has been put into pistons and crankshafts lets see if we can start to focus on valve train and get that to be replaced much more often cause most don't think about it.

been so long I forgot, that stuff is all here and it was when we tried that insane high lift cam you sent us.  I should go back and edit those pictures and that motor was changed to JE pistons and at this time isn't reassembled and its been a few years, porting the combustion chamber out in the head like that ruins the CR he didn't know that at the time and I forget where that head is now I think it may be on the shelf
http://www.b2600turbo.com/K88-Head.htm

this is an OS valve with a cap on the end


#56 Caliber308

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 08:49 PM

QUOTE (Indiana @ Oct 21 2008, 05:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When I start kissing a** you'll know it but don't look for it to happen in this lifetime.  This is about a motor not a baby contest.   If there would have been a way around using shims he would have never used them I'm sure.  I've used a few different cams from Tim and I've had no problems at all with them but those shims we did try I said that and I'd not use them again


Tims ran them for 25,000 miles. I've run them for three years. Richie_Rich has also run a set up like this for many years. Dad even runs a Roller set up with the shims installed. I don't have a clue into how you installed them or how much RPM or BOOST your trying to get out of them. All I can tell members is my experience running this set up "Shims and all". I DON'T KISS A--. But I do tell it like it is. We have this set up now. Many members have proven it works for them and have said so. Your not only hearing it from me. Until someone comes up with a better way (without shims) to run a Roller set up, I'll stick with what I have installed. Is it the fact that you haven't come up with a solution? or you just want to bash a member (Tim C.) who for years came up with something that actually works. I will say this. If I were a member considering running a Roller set up. I would listen to the successful stories from members running Roller set ups, who they purchased their parts from, how everything was installed and who they think is the most knowledgeable person to help them accomplish it. In my book, It's Tim C. There I go again: "KISSING A--". Or is it really giving credit where credit is due.

CALIBER 308

Edited by Caliber308, 21 October 2008 - 09:35 PM.

87 ESI-R: J.E.s 8 to 1 .040 over, Tims roller cam, Roller rockers,Marnal Head(ported and polished) Scheider HD valvesprings, SS Valves,Zero bal,TDO5H 17 C, K.V., OVC HP, Turbo X/S RFL, Aeromotive FPR, 950/1150 injectors, Walbro , MAF-T, AEM UEGO, Summit dig. CD Ignition. box , Mallory 67k coil,D2s.

#57 scott87star

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE
The stock cam is fine to flow out what it flows in, but it gets there by wasting the charge. It is the worst design for a turbo engine unless you want to raise the boost to an unreasonable level (for the majority of applications) and not worry about how much gets wasted. The same and more power can be made with less boost and a good cam.


Can you elaborate?  I for one would like to hear your educated/experienced opinion.

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#58 Dad

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:32 PM

QUOTE (Caliber308 @ Oct 21 2008, 09:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Tims ran them for 25,000 miles. I've run them for three years. Richie_Rich has also run a set up like this for many years. Dad even runs a Roller set up with the shims installed. I don't have a clue into how you installed them or how much RPM or BOOST your trying to get out of them. All I can tell members is my experience running this set up "Shims and all". I DON'T KISS A--. But I do tell it like it is. We have this set up now. Many members have proven it works for them and have said so. Your not only hearing it from me. Until someone comes up with a better way (without shims) to run a Roller set up, I'll stick with what I have installed. Is it the fact that you haven't come up with a solution? or you just want to bash a member (Tim C.) who for years came up with something that actually works. I will say this. If I were a member considering running a Roller set up. I would listen to the successful stories from members running Roller set ups, Who they purchased their parts from, and Who they think is the most knowledgeable person to help them accomplish it. In my book, It's Tim C. There I go again: "KISSING A--". Or is it really giving credit where credit is due.

CALIBER 308



Heads up,  I run a stock  hydraulic  setup on my  car  at this point.  but have assembled some heads with the shims.
just to clarify.


These darn cam setups  are dificult because we  can't get new blanks and have them  cut to  our specs.

I'm sure Tim would love to get new blanks.

Dad

#59 Caliber308

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:47 PM

QUOTE (Dad @ Oct 22 2008, 02:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Heads up,  I run a stock  hydraulic  setup on my  car  at this point.  but have assembled some heads with the shims.
just to clarify.


Dad


My misunderstanding  biggrin.gif

CALIBER 308
87 ESI-R: J.E.s 8 to 1 .040 over, Tims roller cam, Roller rockers,Marnal Head(ported and polished) Scheider HD valvesprings, SS Valves,Zero bal,TDO5H 17 C, K.V., OVC HP, Turbo X/S RFL, Aeromotive FPR, 950/1150 injectors, Walbro , MAF-T, AEM UEGO, Summit dig. CD Ignition. box , Mallory 67k coil,D2s.

#60 Dad

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:52 PM

QUOTE (Caliber308 @ Oct 21 2008, 10:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My misunderstanding  biggrin.gif

CALIBER 308



No problem, been there done that.

Juat want to see  a good result from all of this.

New blanks would be awesome!

Dad




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