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#1334034 MAF Translator Gen II install on a 89 Conquest TSI

Posted by kf4eok on 29 January 2013 - 06:31 PM in Advanced Virtual Mechanic

View Postobsolete, on 27 January 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Okay, I kept researching, and learned that what I was planning on doing (and what it looks like Dan is planning on as well) is wrong.  You can't use anything but the fixed IAT and baro setpoints that the MAFT outputs to the Mitsu ECU if you want it to work "correctly".  This has to do with the fundamental difference in how the Mitsu MAF and GM MAF measure air, and knowing the relationships between temperature, pressure, mass, and volume.Posted ImageThe Mitsu MAF isn't really a mass airflow sensor.  It doesn't measure the mass of the air flowing through it.  What it does is measure the volume of air flowing through it.  A given volume of air can have a different mass (and a proportionally different amount of oxygen) depending on its temperature and pressure.  As most of us already know, a given volume of cold air at low altitude has more mass, and contains more oxygen than the same volume of warm air at high altitude.  Since the amount of fuel the ECU commands from the injectors must directly correspond to the amount of oxygen in the air, the ECU needs to know the mass of the air, not just the volume.  So, to calculate the mass, it needs three things: the volume, the pressure, and the temperature.  That's why a Mitsu MAF is actually 3 sensors in one: a Karman vortex sensor delivers the volume, a baro sensor delivers the pressure, and an IAT sensor delivers the temperature.The GM MAF actually measures mass airflow.  As the density and temperature of outside air change, the mass airflow reading of the GM MAF changes proportionally.  Great technology, right?  Just input that to our ECU and we're done.  Well, not exactly.  Our ECU still expects three parameters from which to calculate mass airflow.  So, in order for it to work, we need to give it all three: volume airflow, baro and IAT.  The problem is, we no longer have a volume airflow reading, we have a mass airflow reading.  So, by setting the baro and IAT readings to known constants, we can effectively eliminate them from the airflow calculation.  That's the simplest way to do it, and that's how the MAFT works.  If instead, you gave the ECU the real IAT and baro from actual sensors, it would double-compensate, which would make the car hard to tune consistently and very sensitive to weather and altitude changes.The airflow calculation with a MAFT, as many of you have experienced, is very accurate, but the unfortunate side effect is that your ECU now thinks you're always at sea level at 80F.  So, anything else that the ECU uses temperature and pressure for, besides just airflow calculation, is going to be wrong.  What are those things?  Probably not much on a simple old computer like ours.  The only thing I could find in the FSM is that above 3,937ft altitude, the computer advances ignition timing by ~5 deg.  That doesn't really mean much to those of us who spend most of our time east of the Rockies.Hope this was helpful.
If you notice I did not use (did not hook up to ECU) the grey and brown wire from the Gen II. I did however hooked up a BARO. Sensor (I used a Toyota vapor sensor) back to the ECU so that the original ECU would do its normal calculations with the Baro. Input. As for the IAT sensor I did use a GM open air IAT sensor and wired it to the orignal input to the ECU so that the Original ECU can do its original calculations with the original IAT input. The Gen II takes the reading from the GM MAF sensor and converts (translates) it to (in our case) DSM signal so that the orignal ECU sees a signal that looks like the original MAF signal.Whith that being said, the original Baro sensor was built into the original MAF sensor and it was installed WHERE? inside of the air filter. I could be wrong on this but I do not think so, the barometer reads atmospheric pressure pretty accuracy right. Well what happens inside of the air filter when you start up the airflow through the filter, the pressure will drop inside the air filter and the sensor will read a inaccurate reading, even worse when the air filter is dirty. I will have to say that the original Baro. should have never been located there. Yes there might be slight differences in manufactures sensor readings but I do not think that it makes much difference on these old ECU in our cars. How did the ECU comspate for a clogged or dirty air filter? It did not but the cars still run. If you put in a K&N air filter there would be a difference in the original Baro reading wouldn’t there, but the car still runs without any noticeable changes.The IAT is similar in the same regards. The IAT should not have been installed before the turbo, or the intercooler. We want the temp. of the air going through the intake to make A/F ratio calculations right. Do you think that the ECU known how much temp. rise the turbo is adding to the air temp, how about how much the intercooler is reducing the air temp at different outside air temps.. These old ECU systems are just that, old and outdated by today’s standards.I am using set points with the Gen II for the IAT and BARO. to match my location. Is this perfect? no but I would guess that it is pretty close compared to the old sensor readings with all of their design and location flaws.  The way I hooked everything up the baro and ECU will calculate the altitude close to the original setup if not better and the IAT should have much more accurate readings if installed in the intake or close to the throttle body. Using set points with the Gen II and not using the grey and brown will not give double compensation.This is just my opion.

#1334026 MAF Translator Gen II install on a 89 Conquest TSI

Posted by kf4eok on 29 January 2013 - 05:24 PM in Advanced Virtual Mechanic

View Postkidjc, on 18 January 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Hmmm... very nice! Thought you had gotten out when sell'n your 87'? It's you correct Dan? :)
Hi, That is correct it is Daniel

#1334025 MAF Translator Gen II install on a 89 Conquest TSI

Posted by kf4eok on 29 January 2013 - 05:22 PM in Advanced Virtual Mechanic

View PostBuGG, on 18 January 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

Very nice write-up.  

Where did you get your manifold source from for the map sensor?
There is no MAP sensor with this setup.

#1331630 MAF Translator Gen II install on a 89 Conquest TSI

Posted by kf4eok on 17 January 2013 - 11:52 PM in Advanced Virtual Mechanic

Here is some notes of a install of a MAF translator Gen II I did.
This is how I installed my mass airflow translator generation 2 on a 89 conquest TSI or starion. First I removed the kick panel on the passenger side and unpluged the two connectors use from the ECU. I have included pictures of all the connectors involved with this install. You will need to run a new 14 to 18gauge wire from the distributor harness plug wire-to-wire on the hardware side to the inside of the passenger compartment. I ran mine to be ECU location. I have a wideband O2 sensor I will be using during this install. I will also use a 3" GM MAF sensor and a GM map or barometer sensor and a IAT sensor.

wiring from the translator:
1. connect the pink wire to the smaller ECU connector (A36) pin 1 which should be a red wire
2. connecting black wire to connector pin 2
3. connect the blue wire to the larger ECU connector (A37) pin 15
4. connect the orange wire to the 0-5 V output wire from your wideband controller
5. connect the purple wire to connector A36 pin 2
6. connect the white wire to the wire you run from the distributor connector
7. connect the green  wire to connector is A37 pin 2 in this step you will physically cut the white wire with black stripe and connect the green wire to the wire from the connector to the ECU.
8. connect the yellow wire to the wire you just cut in the previous step that runs to the MAF sensor
9. brown wire not used
10. grey wire not used
wire of the old MAF plug to the new barometer, IAT and MAF:
cut the wires one at a time because there is 2 blk-wht wires and 2 grn-red wires (look at tht pictures)
1. take the red wire going to the old MAF sensor and cut it and hook it to the 12 V in of the GM's mass airflow sensor
2. take wire-to-wire with black stripe and cut it and hook it to the output wire from the GM's mass airflow sensor
3. hook the Gm MAF sensor ground wire to sensor ground wire fron the old MAF sensor wiring harnes
4. Hook the IAT sensor to the sensor ground wire from the okd harness
5. hook the IAT other wire to the green- red wire going to the ECU pin 5
6. hook the MAP or barometer sensor output wire to the blk-wht wire from the old wiring harness
7. hook the MAP or barometer sensor ground wire to the sensor ground wire from the old wiring harness
8. hook the MAP or barometer sensor 5 volt supply to the grn-red sensor power wire  from the old wiring harness
doing this will return all the sensor inputs that was lost in removing the orignal MAF sensor. Because the old MAF has the baro. and IAT sensor built into it. It is a good idea to install the new IAT in the intake or just before the throtle body, or anywhere after the intercooler. This way you will be gatting a truer temp reading of the incoming air to the engine.
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I hope this will help you during your install.
I set the V1 and V2 to setpoint on thg Gen 2 Translator
I am still working on ALL the other settings
Let me know if this helps you or if you hane any questions.

#1282183 Loooking for a set of oil squirter's for my 4G64

Posted by kf4eok on 07 June 2012 - 04:34 PM in Items Wanted

You have a 4G64 2.4 wide block and are using a 4G63 2.0 head right.
The 4g64 block was not machined for the oil squirters because it was not a turbo charged engine but it has the bosses for oil squirters but has not been machined for them.
You need the bolts and washers and squirters.
The machine shop will need the bolt so they can tap the right threads and tap in the right location.
I do not have any engine parts but I am sure that someone here will have some.
The G54B parts will work for you for this.
You might want to edit the title of your post or start another thread, members might not know that the parts for the G54B will work for you.
Good luck

#1244263 87 tsi mpi

Posted by kf4eok on 06 February 2012 - 12:59 AM in Cars for sale

View Postnomad, on 27 January 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

I saw this car before Dan (previous owner) finished it. It is gorgeous. Dan built it with meticulous care in CLEAN garage. In my opinion this is alot of car for the money.
Thanks nomad for the nice comments.

#1244261 87 tsi mpi

Posted by kf4eok on 06 February 2012 - 12:56 AM in Cars for sale

Hi Rob, I just wanted to say that if I had the funds I would gladly buy the car back from you. I did buy myself a Goldwing and still have it.
I wish you well with the sale.