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T-56 dimensions, torque capacity, and gear ratios


AustinTSI
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I know that there is at least three models of the t56 that I have seen with measurements and they are at least 10" difference in length for each one. So if the short one is the correct model and you get the long one then your shifter is going be be around your elbow!

 

I think the T56 is the best transmission option since you will have

 

So I found 2 PDF's that I saved to my web site with all the relevent data for those that are inerested:

http://austincs.com/car/T56InstallationDimensions.pdf

http://austincs.com/car/T56PartNumbersTorqueCapacityGearRatios.pdf

 

the best appearing option with regard to stock gear ratios is:

Part Number Year Car Model Torque Cap. 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Rev

1386-000-006 1992 F-Car LT-1 350 3.36 2.07 1.35 1.00 0.8 0.62 3.28

(someone send me a pm on how to make this table look better and I will take care of it)

 

but I don't know if it will fit and the torque capacity isn't that impressive. My understanding is that the rear-end gears can be swapped and then a stronger transmission is available but I can't find any info on which transmission models are possible and still maintain the stock shifter location.

Edited by AustinTSI
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This will only be for the wideblock series of motors. So the stock 4g54 and the truck 4g64.

 

I measured the stock 5-speed and from the front bell housing to the middle of the shifter I get what looks to be exactly 29 inches which is 739.5mm (which I'm going to call the shifter-length). I freehanded it with a tape measure so I'm sure I'm off a little but it is good enough.

 

According to the documents I posted above the 1386-000-006 is the only model that I can find with those gear ratios and it is only available in the 92 or 93 Camaro and it is a weaker version with a torque capacity of only 350ft.lbs. Plus I can't seem to find what the shifter length is.

 

So the t56 that is 746mm seems to be ideal except that it doesn't leave any room for the adaptor plate that is used in Chads kit. But with Chads kit you have to use the custom flywheel which uses the clutch from a 93-97 Camaro. The transmission of which has a 717.9mm shifter-length leaving 28.7mm for the adaptor plate which is just a little over 1 inch (25.4mm).

 

So at this point I'm going to assume that the flywheel points to the correct transmission which means that these are the correct versions.

 

Identif-Tag--ID Application----------Torque-1st----2nd----3rd----4th----5th----6th----Rev---IS-OS

1386-000-009 1994-1995 Camaro/Firebird 450 2.66:1 1.78:1 1.30:1 1.00:1 0.74:1 0.50:1 2.90:1 26 27

1386-000-016 1996-1997 Camaro/Firebird 450 2.66:1 1.78:1 1.30:1 1.00:1 0.74:1 0.50:1 2.90:1 26 27

IS = input splines OS = output splines

 

I don't know what the shifter length of the 94-95 version is or what this difference is between the two. Some places don't even list the 009 version.

The 96-97 (016 version) is sometimes listed as the 93-97 model but remember that the 92-93 model (also known as the M28 or M29 model) is only rated at 350ftlbs stock.

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I remember Chad saying that 93 to 97 t56 put the shifter in the stock location , maybe an inch or so off , which way I not sure,its supposed to be as good a fit as can be had...Jeff

 

according to your charts ,the 016 is rated at 450tq, also were is the 009 , its not in the list? I dont see the 009 as a 93-97 trans , where are you seeing that info

Edited by SPEEDSTAR
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I remember Chad saying that 93 to 97 t56 put the shifter in the stock location

 

Yes 93-97. That sounds right. Has to be the LT1 350 model tho. I think the V6 trans is a 5 speed?

 

Is there an identifier (tag, stamped number, etc) to use to be 100% sure in getting the right one when buying from some shop floor or truckbed?

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This is the best place that I have found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg-Warner_T-56_transmission

 

Like I said though, I can't find a difference between the 009 and the 016.

 

I found this:

http://austincs.com/car/T56_009_model_identification.pdf

 

I also found this on LS1TECH.COM

You should look for the part number tag. A metal tag that is under one of the rear extension to main case bolts.Any casting numbers( cast-in the part) will not help you. Look for:

1386-000-006 -only good for 350 ft-lb and has a 3.36 1st ratio

1386-000-007- 2.97 1st ratio/350 ft-lb ,maybe more

1386-000-009-2.66 1st ratio 400ft-lb

1386-000-017- 2.66 ratio/ 400 ft-lb

Its a crap shoot getting a take-out box. "worked perfrctly" can't be demonstrated/tested without an install. I would plan to go through anything I bought before I installed it and add ( at least) new blocker rings and an iron 3/4 shift fork.

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Thats real good info, I read the 93-t56 is the weakest at 400tq, and the 94 to 97 016 is the one to get, its rated at 450tq.....

But still any t56 between 93-97 shoud work just fine.How many guys have over 450hp/500tq,IF I build one that strong ( MONEY) I"m going to have the shafts and gears nitrided and a slippery coating applied to it.I not going to stop with a stock t56. For most builds , the stock t56 is enough....Jeff

Edited by SPEEDSTAR
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From just the little time I have been on this site ,I"ve seen a lot more than 2800.00 these guy are puttin into their cars , to them I think its not a matter of economicsoyi , its because they love the platform ,looks , style of the car,.......Cars are not always investment to be fully recovered, its a matter of enjoying it now.....splained.....IMHO Jeff

And Bill, most of your project parts that you produce for the cars arnt really alot less cheaper,and I really mean alot less cheaper.Your coming from a salesmans point of view, Alot of people dump ALOT OF MONEY in things just because its what they want, you can persuade them to go cheaper but it might not be what they want . I say lay all the choices out and let the buyer make a good choice that they are happy with. Also I"read alot where you knock any product that cost more than yours , its a continueing theme.you"ve got nice stuff,keep pitching them............JEFF

Edited by SPEEDSTAR
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From just the little time I have been on this site ,I"ve seen a lot more than 2800.00 these guy are puttin into their cars , to them I think its not a matter of economicsoyi , its because they love the platform ,looks , style of the car,.......Cars are not always investment to be fully recovered, its a matter of enjoying it now.....splained.....IMHO Jeff

And Bill, most of your project parts that you produce for the cars arnt really alot less cheaper,and I really mean alot less cheaper.Your coming from a salesmans point of view, Alot of people dump ALOT OF MONEY in things just because its what they want, you can persuade them to go cheaper but it might not be what they want . I say lay all the choices out and let the buyer make a good choice that they are happy with. Also I"read alot where you knock any product that cost more than yours , its a continueing theme.you"ve got nice stuff,keep pitching them............JEFF

 

I dont remember knocking other stuff , but okay, I can be a bit negitive

 

what a builder has to know is, how much money and time is required to build the system and how much money will come back in return

 

how do you put it all the numbers together when you build your driveline systems??

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So far I have had a Red 88, a Black 88, a Yellow 86, a White 87, a Blue 89, and another Red 88. I have gotten rid of everything except the Fiji Blue 89 which I will have until the day they outlaw gas powered vehicles.

 

On this build I'm puttin together now I have spent over $4500 on the following: moroso crank case vacuum pump, Aeromotive A1000 Fuel Pump, Aeromotive A1000 RRFPR, camber/caster plates, poly bushings, hydraulic brake booster, strut tower braces, SBR Stage 2 head, magnus intake manifold, pauter x-beam rods, Coil On Plug setup, forged eagle crank, and 4x 1650cc injectors.

 

I still need to buy the following items which will cost an additional $5500 at least: cams, adj cam wheel, throttle body, pistons, intercooler, custom exhaust manifold, turbo, wastegates, BOV, megasquirt v3, harmonic dampner, various guages (AFR, boost, EGT, etc), timeing belt, BCE, oil pump, various hoses/fittings/connectors, etc.

 

And that is just for the materials and I'm sure I have left a number of items out. Add in the labor cost and your looking at WAY more than $1800. But more than that is the idea that I want something that will hold up to 500+hp, so why would I skimp on the transmission and clutch.

 

Plus, the T56 has a larger flywheel and clutch to hold more power, the transmission is stronger stock, can easily be made stronger than the TKO, and it has 4 low gears for street/drag racing, and 2 high gears for highway use and great mileage.

 

If I was going to put a stock 4g6x motor in or one with just a few enhancements then a TKO would be fine. But Mustangs swap the TKO for T56's all the time once they start developing over 400hp. The Mustang Cobra has a T56 (I think). Look on DSMTuners.com and you will find guys making 450+hp all the time. I really don't want to have to mess with a shattered transmission and that will be much less likely with a T56.

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your argument is all good including clutch and flywheel options

 

safety is above all the most important ingrediant, swapping custom flywheel adapters in the manual trans system is dangerous, people have been known to loose thier feet in clutch/flywheel related explosions, that may be the reason my work can be viewed as the 'cheap way out' but in fact its the safest way for any entery level guy to build his hot rod and keep him out of trouble

 

the problem with the T 56 is the size of the front housing, its huge and its lower then the engine, when I built the narrow block bellhousing, I drafted the housing backwards and that was a mistake, I should have 'broken' the casting sideways,because the back of the engine is smaller then the front of the T 56 trans, the second problem of the lower skirt was solved by using a lower bellhousing cover like the GM auto trans used, it lightened the housing but made the throw out bearing and flywheel very excessable

 

I have the plan laid out for the wideblock but there is no demand, I built 10 narrow block T 56 units 2 years ago and sold 4

 

http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0068.jpg

http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0102.jpg

http://www.billsautofab.com/images/T56bellhousing0107.jpg

Edited by Bill Hincher
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When a build reaches 450-500+ hp then the stock flywheel shouldnt be included . Use SFI APPROVED PARTS ONLY PERIOD.That stock flywheel , not if but when it explodes , will and could take both legs off ,or worse. Edited by SPEEDSTAR
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When a build reaches 450-500+ hp then the stock flywheel shouldnt be included . Use SFI APPROVED PARTS ONLY PERIOD.That stock flywheel , not if but when it explodes , will and could take both legs off ,or worse.

 

Agreed. The stocker is pretty thick and will probably hold (I'm no expert), but it certainly wasn't designed to handle double or triple the normal stock power. I trust the guys at Fidanza who custom designed their flywheel just for this conversion.

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That's why they invented scattersheilds and tranny diapers/blankets. Like how they have diapers on top fuel motors for when they explode every other run.

 

My next mod (after I get back and get a job, or get money here somehow) is a t56. However it has to happen, it will. no stock flywheel or anything like that. They don't sell clutches that hold any power for that.

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Well ., Chad has been out of the scene on concerning the t56 swap, . I am a Tool and DIE MAKER , and have the knowledge and means to keep the t56/ adapter plate swap going. I now have all the parts on hand, plus an extra t56 Fidanza flywheel. If Chad isnt interested any more, I"ll produce atleast the adapter plates on a one off basis,maybe get a 150.00 deposit just to cover materials,.The hard part will be getting Fidanza to produce 10 more flywheels...........Jeff
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Well ., Chad has been out of the scene on concerning the t56 swap, . I am a Tool and DIE MAKER , and have the knowledge and means to keep the t56/ adapter plate swap going. I now have all the parts on hand, plus an extra t56 Fidanza flywheel. If Chad isnt interested any more, I"ll produce atleast the adapter plates on a one off basis,maybe get a 150.00 deposit just to cover materials,.The hard part will be getting Fidanza to produce 10 more flywheels...........Jeff

 

:D :D :D :D :D :D

 

I just found my second breath :D :D :D :D game on

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Didn't one of Chad's T56 kits JUST sell a few days back on the for sale forums? You may want to track down the buyer if we can't get in touch with Chad.

 

I'll try that first since last we spoke a good while back he had several leftover kits sitting around. I'd think he'd want to sell them if there's interest or at least be willing to let another member start reproducing them if they're gone and he doesn't want to do it anymore. His were running $400 or $450 last I checked, which seems pretty reasonable.

 

There's more than just the bell-connection going on for sure, so the frame mount, slave mount, driveshaft adapter, etc. that would need to be included.

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Bill, how much would the wideblock t56 bellhousings cost?

 

I'd be in for 2 if the price is reasonable. I can even send you the cash beforehand if that would be a deciding factor.

 

 

DOOOOOOOOOODE I havent seen you around in FOREVER! where ya been? no problem man, I will keep things posted, I finished the Subaru W & R toyota series bellhousings and I am closing in on the 2Jz GM set up, I gotta built the 6G72 GM set up for Mingo but I had the T 56 wide block setting here and I just had to get a good kick to finish it out ,so stay tuned

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How about a informal list of who would be interested in a T-56 wideblock adaptor and would you want a small or large flywheel. I'll start (if you want multiple then list you name for each one):

 

LARGE FLYWHEEL:

1. David Satchell (AustinTSI) - I'm willing to pay in advance

2.

3.

4.

5.

 

SMALL/STOCK FLYWHEEL

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

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on the 4G63 ,most guys wanted the AWD flywheel over the FWD flywheel because the AWD was 10mm smaller in diameter but used the same clutch disc, so it didnt loose any disc surface area and the smaller diameter seemed to allow the turbo motors spool up faster

 

but the major advantage guys all pointed out to Chads flywheel was using the larger Chvey clutch for more disc area

 

well the stock G54 wide block is a larger flywheel and adds about a 1/2in on the disc area so it ought to be about right for the larger engine

 

dont get me wrong about flywheels, the SFI aluminum flywheel is great as well as ARP fasteners but the point I was making about flywheels is how they are attached to the crankshaft, they must be attached exactly as the engineers intended with no couplers

 

and as for SFI , in thier information packet , it clearly states the bellhousing must attach to the engine block in 6 locations, because Mitsubishi only has 4 mounting locations, I can not get the housings certified

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I have to admit that I like the idea of being able to spool faster but I have a very difficult time with something that would require a $1,200 twin disk clutch.

 

I'm not personally concerned about the SFI but I do like having my legs. So now I think I'm going that have to find some type of daily driver scatter-shield. I remember a friend of my dads (back in 83) telling me how he was racing and had a flywheel shatter an a part went through the floor board and just barely missed taking his foot off at the ankle.

 

Here is one of Chads kits that recently sold with pics: http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=117056. Does it have a coupler?

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