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Hello from Oregon...


FBS
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Hi there...  Last summer my dad gifted me his 1987 Starion ESI-R... He was the only owner before me..  He took really good care of this car.... really good care.  Unfortunately he got this bug to modify some things..that now were not such a good idea.  At one point the head gasket leaked so he replaced the gasket but wanted MORE POWER... so he put on a head with a racing cam... After that all kinds of problems.... Car would not idle correctly ect because computer does cannot be adjusted to cam.  When I go the car it drove ok... with a little hitch when you gave it the juice....hesitation and then it would take off.  He put hi output injectors in it too.  It wont run well when cold.... He moved the temp sensor to the front of the car because it was running real lean.... that helped but has its own drawback.  So recently the car runs like crap... When accelerating it sputters when turbo boost hits zero... like its not getting enough fuel... and just does not want to GO>.....  I checked the Thermo Sensor... when. cold.... about 4 ohms... seems ok....   What is the best way to trouble shoot this car...  There is this ECI Checker in the factory manual that I have but even though I found one online...I cannot find all the harnesses.. missing the MD998437 harness...  There is some info about checking pin outs computer...  It seems the only other option is to check individual components....  So... anyone who can assist me I would be ever so grateful..... Sorry no pictures yet.... I am a little shy.... and sorry for not introducing myself... I am not used to being part of forums ect... Eternally Grateful for any knowledge anyone can pass along to me or point me where to go... I did read the Newbie info to check... but not sure about   Thank you. 

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I'd start by verifying all vacuum connections are good and no vacuum leaks.

Starquestgarage.com has manuals available with test procedures for the various components. 

You can use a test light on the ECI diag connector, but usually that has never helped me much.

 

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Welcome.   I'm a bit confused with what you shared about the car but understand that you are hearing it all second hand.   

First off, there aren't too many aftermarket cams that were ever available for these things and none really would have very negative effects on the idle.   But it would be good to know what cam he actually put into it.    Have no clue what you mean by the temp sensor relocated to the front of the car, for it is already up front.   

You need to start off with putting new seals in your throttle body, cleaning your injectors (recommend sending them out to a place to be flow tested and cleaned), new injector clips and do an ISC/TPS reset.    

The codes can be read by a cheap analog voltmeter.   Do a search here, there is plently of documentation on how to do it.   

Other things to definitely consider ding now are to replace the vacuum advance, new plugs (NGK 7031), wires, cap/rotor.   

 

Start simple with these basic tune-up steps.  It's amazing what the results are from just a few o-rings, injector clips, and dialing in the ISC/TPS

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Welcome! Sounds like general tune-up as stated above will get you going in the right direction. That's a lot of information without real specs, so it is hard for us to really tell what might be going on. Mention of hi output injectors is a bit concerning too. Without something to tune with it shouldn't have anything but stock spec injectors or it will (usually) run rich. 

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I missed the mention of 'high output injectors'   Yes, that is alarming too.    Again, what is mentioned is odd, for there have never really been too many options when it comes to cams and injection for our cars.     We'd definitely need more info but I wouldn't worry about the cam and very very highly doubt it is the cause of the idling issues.   The injectors is of concern and I'd be looking to source some originals if you can't determine what is in there, if I were you.     Even snaping a photo would be helpful.

I get to your area every now and then, for my employer is only 45 minutes from you, but I work remotely from my home in PA.   I'll send you a message next time I plan to be in the area.  

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Hey guys.... I am so grateful for your responses.  I talked to Steve at Starquest Parts about this... he recommended that I check the connections on the injectors and look into buying some new connectors from MKS motor sports. He was thinking that its the secondary injector that has gone bad.... I am sorry my explanation is confusing... mainly I am confused....  My Dad told me that after he put the cam in the car never ran smoothly after that.  The injectors were from Python... I have not heard good things about those.  I do have 3 sets of other injectors... 1 set is bad... Dad said that the coils got fried in them... the other two I am going to send in to have them checked...  Steve at Starquest says he knows someone in Washington... that does this.  If anybody else has a good place that they have sent them I am all ears..   Is there any other place to get injectors for these cars besides Starquest .... just in case the other injectors are toast?  I do have new cap, rotor...wires...but I doubt those are bad because the car was running pretty good until just recently.  Anyhows.... so grateful for the help... 

On 1/11/2023 at 8:24 AM, kev said:

I missed the mention of 'high output injectors'   Yes, that is alarming too.    Again, what is mentioned is odd, for there have never really been too many options when it comes to cams and injection for our cars.     We'd definitely need more info but I wouldn't worry about the cam and very very highly doubt it is the cause of the idling issues.   The injectors is of concern and I'd be looking to source some originals if you can't determine what is in there, if I were you.     Even snaping a photo would be helpful.

I get to your area every now and then, for my employer is only 45 minutes from you, but I work remotely from my home in PA.   I'll send you a message next time I plan to be in the area.  

That would be very cool and Kev....please to call me when your in the area...love to talk with you..  Thank you

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 Steve at Starquest says he knows someone in Washington... that does this.  If anybody else has a good place that they have sent them I am all ears.. 

I'm gonna go out on a limb that maybe just maybe he's talking about Witch Hunter performance in Duvall WA.  Either way, I've had great experiences with Witch Hunter (I actually used to live not to far from him and got some DSM injectors cleaned many moons ago, he did great work).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone.  First I just want to say a huge thank you of Gratitude for anyone who has been or is willing to take a moment of their time to read and respond to me in my endeavor to fix this car.  We all have lives to take care of and so taking a moment here to see whats happening and helping a fellow man out means a lot to me... 

Ok enough mushy... I talked to Steve and he says he is pretty sure Witch Hunter performance is the guy he has sent injectors to in the past.  

I dont think injectors are my problems though.

Since I first posted things have changed on their own.  The last time I drove the car it was running rough... no power on acceleration.  The next time I went to start it it would not start... like for only 10 to 20 seconds the first time I turn the key... after that  sputter sputter... no start.  Let sit for a while....  hours... or so ..... same thing again..  Also there was no pressure in the lines when I took off the hose off the top of the main fuel filter.

So I here is what I have done.

I checked the fuel filter at the inlet of the fuel pump... the tiny cone shaped one....    All good... couple small pieces of fuzz... 

I replaced the main fuel filter ... which was replaced at 160,000... currently at 205,000.  It needed it.... 

I replaced the fuel pressure regulator.... I read that if its bad it can be a cause of no fuel getting to engine....

I took both injectors out... cleaned contacts.... they look good...shiny and new.... The car was running normally and started fine before.... so no real reason to suspect these as the culprit. 

I put it all back together... and same thing..  First time... it started... ran for 10 seconds.... and then..  Does not want to start.

 

I take from this that the ignition part is fine.... I checked the air cleaner... no rats or nests... nothing to see.

Seems like its not getting fuel.   I did when had the injectors out take a look down into the throttle body with a camera scope.. all looked mighty shiny and clean.. a little residue on top of the butterfly valve..throttle.  

My next course of action I think is the fuel pump... its really loud...  I have no way to check pressure as I dont have a tester for this.  Autozone has one so I could go that route...  

So I think the fuel pump may have failed...  One day the first time I noticed anything was my wife and I were out for a short drive and she was going up a hill... car seemed to not have much power... when my wife put her foot in pedal... car sputtered... and would not go.  I had this happen in a Naturally Aspirated...Carb..  Fuel injections is something new to me.  

Is it worth the effort to hook up the pressure tester... or would you say its pretty obvious...  I thinks Steve told me that even if the fuel pump is running.. it does not mean it has enough pressure especially when you put your foot in it and the second injector tries to run and just not enough pressure.

 

Thank you.... 

 

 

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Ok... so.  I rented fuel pressure tester.. hooked up from top of fuel filter with special. adapter that replaces the banjo bolt and allows to check pressure while engine running.  I had replaced the fuel pressure regulator... from one that I had from parts my dad had given me.   Pressure came up to about 35 psi... but.... one problem.  Big leak where the pressure regulator attaches.. Ok so I thought maybe not tight enough..... tighten a little bit more....  Still leaking... engine tried to run.. but no go...  

I took off the pressure regulator... examine.. hmmm  I then put back on original pressure regulator... An run same test again....  

This time no leak but no pressure.....  I mean 0.  I took a closer look at the two regulators and compared them... little nipple with the o ring that fits inside the housing on the new one is a different height...shorter.... It did not seal correctly and that why the leak.  

So my conclusion is this.....  Since I had pressure with the new regulator at 35 psi... and  0 with the old one my guess is that the valve on the old one is stuck open that is supposed to regulate the pressure and that is why it reads 0.  Fuel is just cycling back to the tank.

New regulator is bad.. does not fit correctly.  To bad I cannot take them apart and switch the valves out.... Curious if what anyone else has to say on this

Below Two photos... On the left old regulator... Right the new one... there is this depression on the top where the bypass port is.... It looks like a factory defect... From stamping or something .  Has anyone else seen this.  I have the o ring... but I think its not sealing due to the depression...o ring not thick enough... depression is .015 deep...   

I can make a thicker o-ring.... with my 3D printer... 

 

Any Thoughts ? 

 

 

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