Boosted_One Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 Valve size 1.810 intake 1.500 exhaust Conditions: 69* F 30.5 P 51% H LIFT Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â CFM@ 28" Â Â Â INTAKE PORT .100 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 58 .200 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 114 .300 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 170 .400 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 211.5 .500 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 223.5 .600 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 229.5 .650 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 231 .700 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 232.5 LIFT Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â CFM@ 28" Â Â Â EXHAUST PORT .100 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 51.5 .200 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 91.5 .300 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 118 .400 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 141 .500 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 155 .600 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 160 .650 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 161 Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â These are stock sized Marnal mechanical spec'd valves on a fully ported Marnal 2V head. Maybe some of my numbers can help choosing a good cam for it. Not too shabby for a 2V head. http://a9.cpimg.com/image/B1/0D/18538929-e44b-02000180-.jpg Exhaust side http://a0.cpimg.com/image/B2/0E/18538930-9b01-02000180-.jpg Intake side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 WOW nice!! he did a good porting job. Should have got a magna 2ng gen head tho Can fit some 50mm intake valves in that bad boy Altho if i get a new head i would want some nice sized over sized exhaust valves, Good info. What exatly did he do to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted January 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 well he gasket matched the ports. Hogged out the bowls and basically really opened it up quite a bit. Curious to know what the gen2's would flow. Either way it'll flow. You can really see on the exhaust side why the engine likes a 3" exhaust and will like a larger exhaust A/R on the turbo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted January 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 I'll let you know how the gen 2 head flows when mine arrives in the next several months (sea mail). Â Port it? Nawww, bone stock it outflows one of our race ported, big valve examples.... Take care Shawn Curious to see if a stock Gen2 will outflow a fully ported marnal. If you seen all the meat that is hogged out on my head you'd wonder too. Although it looks like Sakura is doing OK with stock valves... "With the rolling chassis complete, Antonio turned his attention to Sakura's powerplant. With several four-cylinder engines to choose from, Antonio opted to use what he thinks to be the best engine, the Starion 2.6-liter G-54. With the engine selected, Antonio contacted Fredie Fuentes of Buena Vista Machine Shop in Bayamon, Puerto Rico to design, machine and assemble the four-cylinder. After boring the block .030 over, Fredie stuffed the cylinders with forged 8,1:1 Wiseco slugs connected to stock-length MRP billet aluminum rods and a stock crank.With the short block complete, Fonseca Rico performed a three-angle valve job using factory valves and ported and polished the intake and exhaust runners. A custom-ground MRP cam was installed to orchestrate valve movement. The stock intake manifold was then modified to accept a MRP four-barrel throttle body with four 1100cc Bosch injectors. The four injectors are fed by a high-flow electric fuel pump rated at 100 gallons per minute and controlled by a Haltech F9 electronic fuel injection system." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted January 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 I don't know if I believe everything that spec sheet claims. Â There have been alot of changes from that writeup and I think alot of things are kept secret with that team. Â Do you think a stock valve would take 57 psi of boost at 8000+ rpm? Â I didn't think so... Take care Shawn Being there is nothing else to go off of, yes I think a stock stelite valve could handle 57 psi. Why wouldn't it? I would have never thought a lot of things that Sakura runs works, but it does. As a matter of fact Scott Lambson flowed his head years back with the TEP 1mm oversized valves and going by his flow numbers he said the gains were small and he felt it wasn't worth it. Frankely I don't believe an unported stock magna head(gen 1,2,3 4 whatever) will outflow a fully race ported marnal head until I see the flow numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie_Rich Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 I'm curious too about Magna vs Marnal. The biggest problem going with bigger valves is the spring pressure needed to make them go to the big RPM's. Using some full roller setup would be the only option so your cam doesn't wear out too fast. I'd really like to see the difference between a stock Marnal and your ported one. Too bad, your machinist didn't flow it before he ported it. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heefner Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 Has anyone seen "The Ant" its a little Toyota Starlet or RX 3 I can't remmember which. Its brown and gold with little ants on it. It runs mostly on the East Coast (Atco). It's a group of Puertorican guys that are running the mitusu 2.6 motor. He siad the motor is all factory parts, head, block everything with a hughe turbo, and jucie. Runs 9's. Obviously the car probably weighs less than 2000lbs but my point is its all stock. I know a few guys from Puertorico that are running stock motors with big boost and juice makeing good power. I think you would be supprised what the stock motor will take if its put together right. Look at lizzords motor. just a thought. :-/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 Anyone care to explain what is so good about the Magna head? I have had so many racers see the Marnal, and think it is about the best design, as far as a Hemispherical chamber. It can be made to out flow the 22R Toyota head too, so it is pretty hard to beat. As for valve increase, you really need a lot of engine to need that. My machinist garantees that my stock head being done right now, will out-flow the 22R head. That's pretty good. As for all the stuff that gets hogged out, that is very true. Even my cheap pocket port job took out a handful of shavings from each port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_Silva Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 Magna = 10+ year newer casting to get things right. You can buy a gen 3 magna, which are currently being produced today., although they have a kidney shaped combustion chamber which is still unproven for performance applications over there. On the Gen 2, the valves are spaced farther apart, are larger, better port shape, both intake and exhaust and have a better combustion chamber which is slightly larger in the important area's. They also come factory roller. The magna Astron only came non-turbo, so obviously there were performance gains to be seen by increasing the valve size, otherwise Mitsu would not have done it. I've done my homework, don't knock me until you know the facts... Take care Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldNBlack Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 ISturbo flowed a Magna head awhile back- > Flow spec on the magna tstr heads > > the open chamber version is an m3 to m7 > the close chamber is m8 or 9 > > our head flows about 150.4 cfm at .4 cam lift > > these test were done with the stack magna cam > total lift is .461 http://www.tristarion.com/images/personalpics/1043086739.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 So the 2.6L is still being produced new? I hope they improved the head casting material too. Mitsu has a way of cutting corners on their production stuff. I'm really not sold on anything but the Marnal. It is a proven workhorse that has a perfect shape. Â Plus, big gains are made by flowing around the valve, which is the only place that truly restricts flow on our heads. Open that up, and you have a considerable flow increase. The ports flow more than what most of us can give them. I'm not knocking anything, or anybody. I just like to hear why something is supposed to be so good. The Aussies are having problems with their mechanical roller design. The rockers are cracking. What most of us tough guys don't consider, is these very hi HP designs find a weak link very fast, and it usually means death to the engine. Don't talk gargantuan flow, & expect it to handle those numbers for very long. The key for me is not to get the highest numbers, but to have very good numbers that last. I've been there, and will be ther again I'm sure when it comes to design, but I know that. Some others don't, so when their stuff blows up, they will be very disappointed, whereas I am aware that can happen at any time on this kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 Im 100% positive what pistons I'll be using The Wiseco's Sakura uses are custom made. They are very expensive, and have nothing to do with the recent comparison with the JE's going on. There are faster cars running both JE, and Wiseco. Not in the 2.6L, but to compare correctly, no one really knows which piston is better for our application. I went with JE because they made me a custom piston for a lot less than Wiseco would. There are a lot of factors that are different even within our group, so no one can really say one is beter than the other for every application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 The big thing about the magna head is in stock form its very good, and it can have large valves which can make it flow way more then a marnal (good for high rpms, and racing aplications). It dont hurt that its about the same price either (but harder to get ahold of) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted January 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 Which Magna head is that?? Is this the magical 1000 cfm unported head?? According to those flow numbers a ported Marnal outflows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 The magna head stock flows about 8 cfm less then a race ported stock quest head (with jet valve elim). The gain over the other heads that 2nd gen has is that you can get some large vavles in, some large exhaust valves will help it out in high rpm aplications. The have flowed large intake vavle (50mm) 2nd gen manga heads close to 300 cfm. and they can get the 2nd gen to about what you got (about 210) with a mostly bowl work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted January 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 Am I readin this correct? Magna .400 lift intake Std closed chamber 195.1 cfms Std head open chamber 187.2 cfms Ported Marnal .400 intake 211.5 cfms (+16.4 cfms) _____________________________ Magna .400 lift exhaust Std closed chamber 111.3 cfms Std head open chamber 116.5 cfms Ported Marnal head 141 cfms (+24.5 cfms) Am I reading this correct? So a ported head does outflow an unported Magna head? That's what I am seeing at least... Having the larger valves, or the ability to is very good and I can see how that would be a plus. Very interesting info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzord30 Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Yep your reading it correct Here is some stuff i have came by Flow #'s for intake @ 28" and .400 Lift: Stock JV Head about 151 cf NJV head about 165 cfm Mild Ported Marnal 188 cfm Heavy ported Marnal 211 cfm Stock 2nd Gen Magna 187 cfm Stock 3rd Gen Magna 179 cfm 2ng Gen Magna With 50mm Valves About 285+ cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim_C. Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Sounds to me like the valves are at different angles to get that big of one in there? My machinist looked at the Marnal, and said a 49mm is possible with a bigger seat, and a 41mm exhaust valve. But they get mighty close, and I wouldn't want to see what valve float does! I guess that Magna does sound good. I would like to see the chamber shape. I'm sold on the Marnal chamber. Racers druel over chambers shaped like that, so I would definitely not want to go with something that changes that shape. That is where the power is made, by a perfect strike to completely burn the fuel mixture. Ours isn't perfect with the spark plug angled, but its very close. I would also like to test the aluminum to see what alloy it is. I wouldn't want to put a lot of money into a softie like our stock ones. Does anybody have a link besides RPW for these heads? We already know what they say, and they are selling it, so I'd like numbers from a more neutral source. ISTurbo knows his stuff, but I don't know how accurate that is. The Australians are very good at telling Americans what they want to hear too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiggity Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 Tim_C I'm agreeing with you on this one. I have the marnel head, and recently had some work done to it by a total engine guru. The guy has more stuff, and builds more engines than I can believe. He builds are Aluminum Small Blocks, puting out 1.8HP/CI. He did work to my head, and when i picked it up he told me i should be putting out some decent power!! He also said it is very close to a HEMI-HEAD. And with the proper blower, and fuel the numbers should be very high. He was totally impressed by my head, and its design. And coming from him, i definately took it as a compliment. btw, on the Aluminum SB, we run 1 carb, and methanol as fuel. No blowers aloud, and Nitrous. Anyways, our race outfits engine guy liked the head, complimented me on the head, and its design, and thats alot coming from someone who lives, breathes, and eat's "Hi-Dollar" engine stuff.. just my couple'o'cents.. -Stiggity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 The most ideal combustion chamber I think would include quench pads... something none of the aforementioned heads can offer. Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezearrl Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 I may be buying a Marnel head very soon, just blew a head gasket yesterday. If my head is cracked I'll be forced to upgrade. If I do, I'll flow the head before I do any work to it and post the results. Someone posted the website for Marnel before, but I can't find it. Boosted_One, could you get me the web address, my searches come up blank. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted May 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 I believe it is www.marnal.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboTSI Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 what baout a 3valve.. could we put a 3 valve head on our car or is it tottaly different?? I see the G54 2V and the G54B 3V would either work and how would it work??? turboTSI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boosted_One Posted May 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 3V is the jet valve head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.kodai Posted July 17, 2003 Report Share Posted July 17, 2003 wow, no wonder. those numbers suck compared to my 2V lt1 head. i am pretty sure it flows close to those numbers stock. and is VERY easy to get 295 at less than .600. i know, i am talking v8. but it is still a 2 valve head. bigger valves tho, i am thinking, by like .1". still, no wonder it is so hard to get hp out of these heads. man, what would it be like to get flows of 295 out of these things? WHOOSH!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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