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Fidanza install and Clutch Problems


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#1 psu_Crash

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 06:35 AM

While dropping the new engine in I installed the fidanza with an ACT 6 puck and their HD pressure plate. The exact same setup I have used for years with a stock FW. Now the clutch doesn't disengage and the pedal has no resistance. Thought for sure I must have put something in wrong or maybe forgot the throwout bearing all together. Pulled off the clutch fork boot to get a look and all is well. The slave is moving as far as it can without pulling the boot off it, so no issue there.
I'd shim the fulcrum if I could get to it without dropping the tranny (again).
Seeing this, i grabbed an old exhaust manifold nut and stuck it between the clutch fork and the slave. Suddenly I have a functioning clutch. There is only pressure at the last 1/3 of the pedal travel, but it does work.
Now, I am not going to leave it that way. It does tell me that for some reason I am not getting the throw I need on the clutch fork. Not sure if the longer model slave would be enough to do the trick or not. I will tell you that tonight I'll be making a custom slave rod to figure out how long it needs to be to work right.

Anyone else have a similar issue? Or some advice to lend
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
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#2 Preludedude

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 07:39 AM

The first time I installed my engine/trans...I put on a ACT HD clutch with a Fidanza flywheel....It wouldnt disengage either.....I thought we had done something wrong...But I wound up having to adjust the pedal as far as it would go, and then it was fine...It just wasnt pushing in the master cylinder rod far enough...

#3 psu_Crash

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 09:30 AM

Mine is already adjusted out as far as I am comfortable with. The throw out bearing sits a solid amount off the pressure plate before I hit the pedal so i'm going to add length to the slave rod and see if i can take up that slop.
Next step is to bleed the clutch just to make sure there isn't something up there since it's been sitting all winter. Slave definitely looks like it's moving properly though.
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
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#4 starquestJOE

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:07 AM

I had the same problem as well. I had to remove the rubber from the end of the pedal adjuster. Replaced the rubber with metal and i had a working clutch. I guess the rubber was defecating enough to not get the travel i needed

IM STARQUEST 4 LIFE ....
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#5 speedyquest

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:32 AM

View PoststarquestJOE, on 25 April 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

I had the same problem as well. I had to remove the rubber from the end of the pedal adjuster. Replaced the rubber with metal and i had a working clutch. I guess the rubber was defecating enough to not get the travel i needed

Best auto-correct error I've seen in awhile HAHAHA

Edited by speedyquest, 25 April 2018 - 10:32 AM.

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#6 psu_Crash

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 11:49 AM

Fantastic :lol:

I'll be sure to post back once I get it working
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
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#7 starquestJOE

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:18 PM

Didnt even notice that lol.....
If you do make a longer rod, make me one as well

IM STARQUEST 4 LIFE ....
88 tsi-80k one owner bone stock R88 unicorn
87 tsi - red - sometimes mine sometimes ryans
89 tsi-46k-red but not for long!!!
88 esi-r-white-SOLD
88 tsi white 61k-SOLD
89 tsi-black-rip
87 tsi-black/red-SOLD
88 tsi yellow sold
89 tsi white parts car
88 esi-r-black-RIP
87 tsi-somewhere in MD....need to pick it up
                    88and 89parts car...need parts???
          lookin for  RHD starion and part to convert to RHD
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#8 psu_Crash

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 10:32 AM

I cut the slave rod and extended it about 3/8" it works, but it's over extending the pressure plate fingers. Perhaps just the early longer slave rod would do the trick
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
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#9 croquest87

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 05:08 PM

Shoot do you have a correct thrust bearing that's in direct contact w fingers when you push the clutch in there are diferences so if it is to short you will have a same issue just saying because l had a new clutch kit that came w shorter thrust bearing but l cought it before l put it in good thing l measured it. It was almost 1/2 inch shorter from stock and half of it was plastic. Just something to check.

Edited by croquest87, 05 May 2018 - 05:11 PM.


#10 psu_Crash

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 06:58 PM

It's the same throwout bearing as before with same pressure plate. Just a new disc and flywheel. All I can figure is that the fidanza is marginally thinner? Or the new ACT disc is thicker?
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
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#11 croquest87

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 03:33 AM

Sucks you even have to mess w that s...! Should be all to spec and functional after install for what it costs.lf l where you that would all go back to manufacturer. Lighten you a nice 88-89 stocker w clutch of choice.Done! Fidanza is kinda light anyway. Thats just me though!

#12 psu_Crash

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 11:57 AM

I have a lightened stocker that I ran for many years. I like the weight of the fidanza and the quick revs.
I'll get it all straightened out one of these days :)
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
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#13 Turbo Cary

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 08:05 PM

I ran a Fidanza flywheel for years with SPEC clutches. No issues at all. Did you by chance install the throw out bearing on the wrong side of the fork? I'm not sure if that is possible to even do it is just a thought.

When you also say the pedal is adjusted out to a maximum you're comfortable with, is the measure height of the pedal in specification?

Not to mention the clutch disengage issue. Are you sure it is 100 percent bled and that the CMC isn't going bad as well?

Last thing is the clutch disc installed facing the correct orientation? I know that sounds stupid to ask, but just covering all the bases.

I had a similar issue to what you have once but that was slightly different. I did a massive burn out and actually melted the disc to the flywheel. I had to chisel it off and replace the fiction plates on the Fidanza.

#14 croquest87

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 05:30 AM

I don't think throwout bearing could even install behind fork.That clip wouldnt line up into small holes that hold it.But good thing to check anyway.

Edited by croquest87, 08 May 2018 - 05:31 AM.


#15 psu_Crash

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:36 AM

View PostTurbo Cary, on 07 May 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

I ran a Fidanza flywheel for years with SPEC clutches. No issues at all. Did you by chance install the throw out bearing on the wrong side of the fork? I'm not sure if that is possible to even do it is just a thought.

Throwout bearing is 100% for sure installed correctly. I have pulled the clutch fork boot and looked around with the borescope just to make sure all seems well. It does.

When you also say the pedal is adjusted out to a maximum you're comfortable with, is the measure height of the pedal in specification?

I have a bearing pressed in the pedal, bushed clevis and the rubber part is solid now. It's adjusted near the end of the threads and locked down. If it's not in spec then there's no way it's going to be.

Not to mention the clutch disengage issue. Are you sure it is 100 percent bled and that the CMC isn't going bad as well?

100% sure. The slave moves far enough that it almost pops out of its boot

Last thing is the clutch disc installed facing the correct orientation? I know that sounds stupid to ask, but just covering all the bases.

I have thought about that too. As far as I can tell it is in correct. I don't think that sprung hub on the ACT would fit if it were backwards. 99% sure it's in there correct...

I had a similar issue to what you have once but that was slightly different. I did a massive burn out and actually melted the disc to the flywheel. I had to chisel it off and replace the fiction plates on the Fidanza.

I REALLY don't want to drop the transmission again ... I feel like I'm going to be forced to at some point though.
I feel like a 0.040-0.060" washer behind the fulcrum would do the trick. Figuring that out by trial and error will be a serious PITA. I may work on it a little more tonight and see what I come up with.
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
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#16 speedyquest

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 11:44 AM

That washer in the fulcrum is something that funkyphil has talked about before and he highly suggests it. Its something that I plan on doing to my car also.

1987 Flatty Starion -- Widebody Conversion -- V-Mount Setup --  JDL Tubular Manifold  --  MX-6 Intake -- MS3-Pro -- AEM FPR  --  ARP head studs -- 3" hood exit exhaust -- Hahn Racecraft 16g --  Tial F38 Wastegate -- Tial Q Bov -- Short route piping -- 5 lug & LSD conversion -- Tubular Front End -- Manual Steering Rack Conversion -- Manual Brake Conversion -- Stack Digital Dash -- AEM UEGO -- D2 coilovers -- full GNT poly bushings & mounts -- four 8" rears -- car lightened significantly...  More to come!


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#17 psu_Crash

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 07:53 PM

Yeah that's definitely the way to go. I wonder if I could do it through the hole for the fork boot... hmmm
'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
2016-17 SCCA Solo Glen Region Champion in Street Modified. Going for a 3-peat this year ;)
87 Valencia Gold TSI, The new Project
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#18 mstieg

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 01:39 AM

It's been a while since I've done a clutch, but frow what I can recall...
  • It can happen that the clutch disk is installed backwards.  On the ACT ones, they blob a bit of yellow paint on the side that faces the Pressure Plate.  It will assemble and fit just fine, but won't disengage if backwards.
  • TO bearings...there's two kinds IIRC.  Unlikely the issue though.  Pretty sure the other kind is from an 83 & has different clips?
  • Don't the SQ clutch Slaves have two different length pins which contact the fork?  Again, this might be an older vs. newer thing??
  • For sure a new clutch vs. old will be thicker & need a good bit of pedal adjustment per the manual, but it sounds like you guys already addressed this.
  • Unlikely, but the clutch fork can sometimes hook into the clip on the inner trans wall, but not be completely snug on that ball/knuckle the clip goes onto.

Before: 352 rwhp @15psi; MPI: SDS EM5F; Chad intake & equal length header; S256 turbo (56/80comp-64/74ex); 48" of 2.5" IC piping
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#19 psu_Crash

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 05:59 PM

The early model slave had a longer rod. I believe they are 3.4 on the early model and 3.2 inches 87-89. TO bearing and clutch fork are definitely installed properly. The disc... 99% sure it's in there correct too. It is installed with the sprung hub side to the pressure plate. I've been driving it the way it is and even raced in the current configuration. I'd really like to know what is causing my issue though.
Ordered an early model slave a couple days ago. If the extra 0.2" does the trick then I'm going to forget about it until the next time I drop the tranny. I've screwed around with the length on my current slave rod that I'm not sure where is at. Forgot to measure before last night's re-install.
Currently I only have resistance in the pedal for the last few inches of travel and the pedal doesn't fully retract on its own. BUT the clutch does work and fully release.
I'll be taking more bore scope pics and measurements this weekend

Edited by psu_Crash, 11 May 2018 - 05:59 PM.

'86 Starion, MPI with MS2extra, Ebay To4E 57 Trim (in testing), P&P head, OS SS Valves, Wiseco +.030, ARP head/rod, RPW Roller Cam, Crower Rods,AEM H2O/Meth Injection, Mighty Max CAS 4 Direct Fire Wasted Spark, BSE, Tial 38mm, JDL exhaust mani, HKS turbo timer and EVC3, AEM UEGO, 3" DP into 2 1/2" Dual Exhaust, 85# Delphi's, Magna modded by Chad, Accufab FPR, Walbro 255, D2 Coilovers, GNT Poly Bushings and mounts, Funk-Lock, LED Tails and Dome ... etc^4
2016-17 SCCA Solo Glen Region Champion in Street Modified. Going for a 3-peat this year ;)
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#20 importwarrior

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:07 PM

The pic of the slave cylinder. Long shot. But.
9th pic down.

http://projectzerog....4f9621e91fa0698

Did you remove the restrictor out of the slave cylinder.

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