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MPI cooling problems


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#1 '87quest

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 09:25 PM

Ok, for some reason the car keeps wanting to get hot, I guess my ideas for the cooling part of the intake might not be as good as I thought. First off, the car has a cx racing aluminum rad, stock fans (work fine), and 190* thermostat (new). I didn't really like the way FIP wanted people to set up there intakes by just drilling holes in the thermostat and eliminating the stock temp gauge so I added three bungs to the hurricane, #1 for the turbo water line, #2 for the stock temp gauge sender, and #3 for a bypass line to the coolant tube that goes from the water pump around the block to the heater hose. For some reason today the car kept wanting to get hot, I had to stop and let it cool down three times in my 5 mile drive around the section. Yesterday it seemed fine on the same drive so I don't understand why that is but maybe one of you guys will see something thats causing an issue. Heres a quick picture i drew to kind of explain the way I ran everything (I'm no artist lol).

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and heres a few pics of the actual setup

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Both the factory gauge and the tuner studio gauge were showing pretty warm compared to usual (about 220* is what it go up to before i stopped) and I also had the heater going full blast. Strangely when I got back to my driveway it was staying right around 200*???? not sure why....


If anybody has any experience with the hurricane manifold or has any advise I'd greatly appreciate it.



Pic of setup

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Only thing changed was the turbo coolant line going to intake kept leaking so I threw a stock line on until my new fittings get here. This was also like this yesterday when I first drove it with the MPI setup and it seemed fine, didn't get much over 200*




Thanks in advance,

Drake

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#2 importwarrior

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 04:52 AM

i run a 180 in my car not MPI but it does go to about 205 on the guage. never any hotter.
once fans kick on it drops like a rock. i have a 3 row aluminum in my car. it has a shroud.
i feel with the shroud it makes the car run hotter. less air passing through the radiator.

i would try and bleed the cooling system again. make sure most of the air is out.

does your tstat have a bleeder hole? if not you might want to make a 1/8 hole like below.


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#3 vbrad511

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 07:07 AM

The 180 stat, and then what are you running for fans and their sensors? Make sure the fans are running "strong", and if you're using OEM sensors I'd run two lo-temp ones, and jumper them together.

How do you like the feel/pull/power of the MPI? I keep going back and forth whether to do it on mine, or just swap it. First impressions?

#4 '87quest

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:16 AM

I'm not sure if it has a bleeder hole or not honestly, it was brand new so I just put it together and didn't really pay attention. This might be a stupid question but does water flow through the heater core all the time or only with the heat on? If it doesn't this might be my issue.. my rear water port wouldn't have anywhere to go with the heat off then, so maybe I need to T that off and run a short line to the "bypass" line I added to the main front coolant port. Thoughts on that?

And vbrad, I can't really say yet, I've driven it twice around my section never getting in boost and never over 3k rpm. I'm sure it'll be fun when I figure this issue out and have it all tuned. Hoping that I can really enjoy the car in a few weeks.

Thanks guys

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#5 '87quest

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:18 AM

I also might try a 180 tstat, but I don't think this is my issue. And can I just splice the wires from the secondary fan to the ones on the bigger main fan so they both kick on when the big one does?? Been wanting to do this too.

Drake

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#6 Funky Phil

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:32 AM

Each fan should be on its own circuit otherwise you risk losing both at one time.

Coolant does NOT flow through the heater core whan not in use.

That line from the front tstat outlet the runs under the manifold to the steel pipe is a bypass.

Does the car still overheat with the heater on full blast?

Have you checked your radiator cap?

Is the tstat installed the correct direction?

Are you losing coolant?
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#7 '87quest

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:00 AM

View PostFunky Phil, on 23 August 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

Each fan should be on its own circuit otherwise you risk losing both at one time.

Coolant does NOT flow through the heater core whan not in use.

That line from the front tstat outlet the runs under the manifold to the steel pipe is a bypass.

Does the car still overheat with the heater on full blast?

Have you checked your radiator cap?

Is the tstat installed the correct direction?

Are you losing coolant?

Thanks Phil.

1. Gotcha I'll leave then alone then

2. That's what I thought. I think this is my problem, I haven't drove it enough to be certain but I don't think it would have got hot if I had the heater on the whole time.. I just started it when it was getting warm but then it was too much to catch up. I think I'll rig up a 3/8 bypass line from the back port too so there always a way for the hot coolant to get out.

3. I did this so I didn't have to drill holes in the thermostat. Do you see problems with that?

4. See 2

5. Working properly

6. Yes

7. Had a little leak but nothing now. Everything is still full.

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#8 Funky Phil

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:37 AM

Id drill atleast 1 hole, jack up the front of your car and reburp.


Edited by Funky Phil, 23 August 2017 - 09:38 AM.

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#9 jisleyjr

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:44 AM

I am curious on what you mean by rig up a bypass line, the way you have it drawn out looks good to me and i don't think you need to change anything.

I would try a different thermostat along with making sure all the air is out of system. Make sure the bleed hole is on the top side (drill it out like mentioned).

Do the fans actually come on?

Nice and clean install too, kudos.
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#10 '87quest

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 10:27 AM

The rear port just goes to the heater hose and CTS, so unless I have the heater on it's a dead end for that coolant to get out so I'm just going to rig up another bypass line from the rear port to the bypass line from the from port. Also will pull the thermostat out and drill a hole.

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#11 '87quest

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 11:52 AM

Ok i just tried driving it again this time with the heater going full blast the whole time and the car didn't get over 200* on the tuner studio gauge and not quite half way up on the factory gauge, so I'm 99% sure I just need to run a line to bypass the heater core so I don't have to run the heat in august. I also did take apart the thermostat and drilled one 3/16 hole in the top of that (there wasn't any there), not sure if this helped or not but at least now I know theres no air trapped there. So now I just need to go find some fittings to run the bypass line for the rear port to verify that the issue is solved but Im feeling confident that it will fix it. Thanks for everyones help and I will report back in the next day or so when I get that line rigged up!

Cant wait to put a little boost to this thing.... this tuning might kill me lol

Drake

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#12 '87quest

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 11:57 AM

also curious how hot does you guys turbos get? mine is a TD06SL2 18G and it gets up to about 500* when idling fully warmed up.. is this normal or is this to do with having the coolant line returning before the thermostat rather than after like the stock setup?

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#13 jisleyjr

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 07:42 PM

So you made a couple changes and saw some good results, that makes it tough to know what made the difference. i still don't agree with bypassing anything. Look at the Service Manual Cooling section, you'll see the direction of the coolant flows through the block up into the head and through that hose under the intake into that pipe at the back of the block that curls around the engine under the exhaust back to the water pump. Like Funky Phil said this is the bypass line.

Have you confirmed that the fans are coming on?

Edited by jisleyjr, 23 August 2017 - 07:43 PM.

1988 Conquest, Fiji with blue/grey cloth interior. Magna MPI/MS2/EDIS-4, D2's, td05h/s16g
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#14 '87quest

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:39 PM

View Postjisleyjr, on 23 August 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

So you made a couple changes and saw some good results, that makes it tough to know what made the difference. i still don't agree with bypassing anything. Look at the Service Manual Cooling section, you'll see the direction of the coolant flows through the block up into the head and through that hose under the intake into that pipe at the back of the block that curls around the engine under the exhaust back to the water pump. Like Funky Phil said this is the bypass line.

Have you confirmed that the fans are coming on?


That factory intake has a coolant bypass that connects to the tube that goes around the block. My goal was to make it flow like factory because I didn't like the idea of just drilling a bunch of holes in the thermostat.

Yes my fans work.

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#15 '87quest

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:14 PM

And I didn't really make any changes, just had the heater going full blast the whole time to mimick a bypass line on that rear coolant port.. that's how I know I need to run the bypass line.

Drake

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#16 jisleyjr

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 08:46 AM

No one told you to drill a bunch of holes, just the one to allow the trapped air to escape. Good to hear your fans work, we didn't know.
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#17 '87quest

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 11:19 AM

View Postjisleyjr, on 24 August 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

No one told you to drill a bunch of holes, just the one to allow the trapped air to escape. Good to hear your fans work, we didn't know.

Thats the way FIP wanted guys to run them, no bypass lines just drill I believe 3, 1/4" holes in the tstat, thats what I didn't want to do so I ran the bypass lines. And first post say stock fans work fine ;)

Took it for a drive just now with the added bypass line and heater OFF and car was right around 185-195 cruising and got it up to 205ish when sitting revving it up. I think my issue is solved.

Still curious if any of you think my turbo port being on the head side of the thermostat is affecting anything rather than having it on the radiator side of the thermostat like stock. I figured once the stat opens it wouldn't make much of a difference so thats why I ran it like this.

heres an updated pic of how the new line is ran

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Drake

Edited by '87quest, 24 August 2017 - 11:20 AM.

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#18 Chad

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 12:36 PM

While there was a factory bypass path in the stock intake, it had a small restrictor port inside the casting.  If you run a pipe from the front of the head to the back of the head, you need to restrict that flow to about 3/16".  The original function of this path was to keep the manifold from vacuum cooling in cold temps after the throttle plate.  It created an endless loop on flow from the head to the pump inlet independent of the stat.

Water come out between #3 and #4 to feed the heater core.  I ran that to the water pump inlet.  This cycles water in the bottom/front of the block, and out the upper/back via the head.  This flows no matter what the stat is doing, so temps in the motor are even and uniform.  The front head port only flows to the radiator when the stat is open, allowing the stat and fams to do their job

#19 '87quest

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:56 PM

View PostChad, on 24 August 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

While there was a factory bypass path in the stock intake, it had a small restrictor port inside the casting.  If you run a pipe from the front of the head to the back of the head, you need to restrict that flow to about 3/16".  The original function of this path was to keep the manifold from vacuum cooling in cold temps after the throttle plate.  It created an endless loop on flow from the head to the pump inlet independent of the stat.

Water come out between #3 and #4 to feed the heater core.  I ran that to the water pump inlet.  This cycles water in the bottom/front of the block, and out the upper/back via the head.  This flows no matter what the stat is doing, so temps in the motor are even and uniform.  The front head port only flows to the radiator when the stat is open, allowing the stat and fams to do their job

Thanks Chad, I think thats pretty much what i did right? I didn't run a line from the front head port to the rear port, but to the coolant tube that goes to the water pump, I did this so the turbo return line has a consistent flow until the thermostat opens. Then I added another line from the rear port to the same coolant tube to the water pump so theres a way for coolant to flow when the heater isn't running. Do you see any issues with how I have it set up? it seems to be working properly now. maybe I should have ran the turbo line to an inline housing after the thermostat then I probably wouldn't have needed the bypass line from the front port but I figured it won't make much difference once the thermostat opens.

Thanks

Drake

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#20 speedyquest

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 04:05 PM

Let me toss a novel idea into the mix just to muddy the waters. If I hadn't decided to totally remove my turbo's coolant lines I definitely had thought about running the turbo coolant hose off the back port since that ends up going to the same place anyway and I have no heat parts.

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