TMJ1098 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 This will be my first experience with what will hopefully be a fun, safe, reliable daily driver...Ha! No, really. just getting it to run for the occasional autocross and fun on the weekends will be exactly what the car is for.BUT....frustration. It does run there's no doubt of that. The engine came from a ram 50 and apparently does not have the nitrided crank required for the turbo? Although i have read conflicting opinions here on the matter. That aside, there are some mysteries to solve with this motor. Long story short, previous owner could not find a crank for whatever short block was in it. apperantly when he bought it, he spun a bearing in 40 miles since oil pump wasn't primed, rebuilt with balance shaft delete kit and forgot to plug shaft holes, low oil pressure, blew motor. Then decided f-it and put balance shaft back in and forgot bearing or somethin and balance shaft rattled around in block and needed shim for bearing or something. Checkered past leaves short block from ram 50, balance shafts deleted, head and intakes and TB from what i am assuming is the original car. Is this a good start for anything? there's a few bare solder connections in the engine bay, broken and disconnected sensors, questionable wiring, cracked and crumbling accordion, and a TB that could use at least a rebuild with wire wrapped around it holding the clips to the injectors.It was thrown together in short order by the seller, did run, but was leaking oil and anitfreeze pretty bad so I decided to at least clean it up to see what i;m dealing with. Degreasing reveals leak from re-used circular packing and the radiator is pretty obvious. I got it all cleaned up and running again but the clutch was totally flat. I took off the master and slave clutch cylinders, cleaned those up, replaced the nearly black fluid and I think thats pretty much sorted out. Except for the release fork boot, it was turned 180 and wore a hole through it from the clutch cover.Trans fluid didnt look so good either, Brassy and black. Some 1mm sized bits from gears stuck to drain pug magnet.I threaded the oil feed line that wasn't threaded. The feed line was there but like three turns into the unthreaded hole. Is that because this is the timing chain case from the non-turbo ram? Or is this not threaded on either? Does it need to be threaded deep enough for the line to seat in there properly?The turbo was searing hot but wasnt making any strange noises. The accordion had about an inch of lip left on it with the clamp holding it on. The blades don't seem to be damaged in any way from sucking in chinks of anything.Not sure really how to proceed once i get it all back together....replace a few things; accordion WTB and buying vacuum hose too at the dealership.Start with the throttle body? This seems like the next logical thing anyway, rebuild or replace and make sure at least that is working correctly?Electrical will be a nightmare and I'm avoiding what i still see as wizardry.Brakes and suspension in due time...Cooling system definatley has issues. I have a radiator shop down the road so i'll drop that off. Do they sell hose replacement kits with all the hoses included or am i dreaming there? The running temp barely got above the lowest line on the drive home but I'm not putting much into that till i can get it to the point where i can actually recover some codes for it.The car currently sits with the rocker assembly off waiting for the circular packing to put it back together with hopefully that leak solved.A trip tomorrow to the dealership for a couple circular packing replacements (i'm assuming i will have this off again soon) and re-assembling the motor and hopefully it runs again.So far its taken untold hours just to get to replace a $3 part to find out what's really going on with this thing lol.help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I'd just not bother to put that back together. Its some junkyard truck motor and may be ate up or near ready to die. Pull it out and go find a turbo block. Its not the crank not being hardened but if it is it can take abuse like lack of oil where a non hardened crank will just get ate up like the bearings. There's no oil jets to cool the pistons in a truck motor only in a turbo block but you could have it machined for them otherwise the block is the same. You have a non hardened crank and the turbo crank even though it ate a bearing might be salvaged but a good used crank isn't expensive. There's also likely not a threaded hole for the knock sensor. Where is the old motor? Did you or can you get the pieces? Where do you live? January in Michigan is a good time to spend on the rest of the car and take the winter to find a block and crank as the cylinder walls in your truck block you didn't mention their condition, might be pitted too. The deck surface is likely untouched and that means its not flat. There were too many questionable things that spell ruined engine to go ahead with what you were given. I hope you didn't pay much for this, like scrap price about $400 and it may have the non front pickup oil pump with the truck pickup tube that DOES NOT work with that oil pan you will suck air and that needs looked at too. You can use that pump if you have an 83 pickup tube and oil pan or they were modified to use the truck pickup tube. Edited January 3, 2012 by Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 The circular plug on the back of the rocker assembly can be reused. I've reused mine 4 times. Just clean and degrease everything then use some black silicone. Replace the injector clips and clean the injector terminals. Fix the leak between the mass air sensor and the turbo. Repair any broken sensor wires. Fix the coolant leak. Then start it up and see how it runs. You should do simple maintenance things like replace all the coolant hoses, belts, ignition tune up, etc. Now for the bad news. The truck block is the wrong block. It will work but don't expect it to hold up under heavy modding. Only the starquest cranks were nitrided. Also SQ blocks have oil squirters that spray the bottom of the piston for cooling and wrist pin +cyl lube. Not having those 2 things means this engine will have to stay relatively stock. No MPI swaps on that block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) There's oil holes in all the rods of all the engines turbo or otherwise to spray the wrist pin and cylinder walls that's why there is the holes in the rod bearings and you should verify those are free because they can become clogged with bearing material. The oil jets are only to spray the underside of the piston to take the heat away from the piston dish to help prevent detonation and pre-ignition. Look at the top of the page, it shows the oil hole in the rod big end that sprays up the cylinder wall and hits the wrist pin when the piston moves up and down. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/1d16.jpg http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000177A.JPG This was stock in one of the oiling holes in the rod, took a hard wire and force to remove it.http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003399.JPG Edited January 3, 2012 by Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyWadd Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) No MPI swaps on that block. Why no mpi? MPI would improve the fuel situation for the engine, wich is going to be the problem without the oil squirter as its a piston cooler.More boost and lean conditions on the stock TBI would be inferior to MPI. Maybe what you meant to say was no high boost? Edited January 3, 2012 by JohnnyWadd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Why no mpi? MPI would improve the fuel situation for the engine, wich is going to be the problem without the oil squirter as its a piston cooler.More boost and lean conditions on the stock TBI would be inferior to MPI. Maybe what you meant to say was no high boost? Non nitrided crank means it may break under high HP. Lets be honest, TBI can't make big #s like MPI can. And nobody does a MPI swap just to have a better fuel system at stock HP #s. Everyone who does it wants to make much more power than stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMJ1098 Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 So basically what I'm reading here is some debate on whether the two blocks are relatively the same? If it's just unthreaded oil feed and knock sensor (which I'm about to check). The crank could wait since the thing need alot of other things sorted. The previous owner did have the old block and the balance shaft had worn one bearing about 1/8 inch bigger. I could ask if he still has it or is that trashed also. That block did have a pretty disastrous demise...at least three times. Lol. I don't think I'd trust it anyway. The crank that was in it was sent out to be welded and turned and found to be too damaged to repair. That Would have compromised any nitriding anyway? All in all somewhere to start. I'll check for the oiling holes and suppose I need to look into oil pan pickup configuration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) The rear bearing journals on either shaft if they banged about in the hole makes no difference the oil will never leak from there because it came through the shaft and out the back of it and you plug up the one hole in the front upper opening with a tin ring put in place of a big aluminum piece that bolted in and doesn't move that had a small bearing surface machined into it. The lower shaft front bearing surface is in the oil pump case. That old block is likely still good just needs cleaned up. There's no unthreaded holes to thread for the oil jets they are not drilled through and there's no flat surfaced machined to seal a crush washer against and that has to be flat it could vibrate and come out. I never saw a broken 2.6 crank and I don't know if anyone else has either. The first mpi swap I did used a non hardened crank. There's 4 of these and there is a spot in all the blocks to machine out these openings for the oil jets but a truck block has no prep work done here its just a rough casting bulge. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003265.JPG This is where the upper rear bearing went. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM009208.JPG The big piece of aluminum bolts into the front opening where the oil feed hole is in the block and seals with an oring, the oil passes through the side of this and into the front shaft journal and goes down through the center of the shaft and out the back journal. When you don't use the shafts this piece isn't used a a tin ring is just hammered into its place to cover up the oil hole. The hole in the old pump uses a stub that comes in the elimination kit that fills that small hole that goes right through the oil pump gear. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM009200.JPG You need to get the old block, have it tanked and the deck surfaced then if you want to use your non hardened crank fine but the have the machine shop check it at least and the rods too then just reassemble it. The old oil pumps are usually still good to use even if they are scored a little inside the only part that matters is where the gears use the front and back covers for their bearing surface. The crap the pumps with the oil scratches the inside of the case but the pump puts out WAY too much oil anyway and about 3000rpms the relief valve opens and it pukes lots of oil back to the pan. To drive down the highway you are at almost 4k rpms- there's more than enough oil and actually there's way too much. Edited January 3, 2012 by Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I hope it has the turbo pistons in it because if they are flat on top you must find the pistons too. http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM000182.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMJ1098 Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Crap. Put it back together. Changed fluids and such. Water in oil. Crap. Taking a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ucw458 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Bad headgasket or cracked head. Sorry dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMJ1098 Posted January 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Oil pressure was spiked. So I turned it off and checked oil. Bubbles. Drained it. Definitely antifreeze in oil. Just gonna yank motor out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markhansenconquest Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 get a used turbo engine and rebuild!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMJ1098 Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Looking for one yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86starionIA Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) what year is the car ? Check www.car-part.com i looked up for an 86 and there are some that run and a bunch for parts found my transmission and my engine on that site if you do use this site STAY AWAY from North Imports Auto Parts in Minnesota they tried to totally screw me over said the engine was fresh rebuild but was really oily and had crankshaft play and they don't offer a warrenty or returns on parts 1987 Engine Chrysler Conquest 6-86,RWD,EFI,2.6L I4,5SPD MT,TSI 0 A 012105 $850 Eagle Auto Parts South, Inc. USA-MI(Three-Rivers that is one of the listings they have just noticed its in michigan Edited January 19, 2012 by 86starionIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMJ1098 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Since I'm here to get some learnin on this...should I do a compression test just for future reference? Since it's broke I plan to tear it down anyway and examine the differences in blocks and such. Some pretty gnarly symptoms when I did restart it. Chugging. Some smoke, white, super hot turbo, spiked oil pressure and bubbly oil. Water in it? Cannot be certain actually. Oil actually looks pretty good. Except for the nice bearing shimmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMJ1098 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I forgot to add that from the looks of the head when I took the valve cover off right away, it looked like oil was not reaching the top of the motor either. I know it's the wrong block but I intend to understand this thing. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Take the rocker assembly off and see if the head is chewed up. The heads are the same so you'll know if the head MIGHT be able to be reused. It won't matter what compression is, the more that runs the worse you are chewing something up. Don't run it again. Take it out and tear it all apart then you'll know what can be reused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMJ1098 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Well, its been over a year since i sorta gave up on this....BUT....I took on few other easier projects and feel like i can pick up this one with a little more confidence and knowledge this time. Basically looking for a complete motor or considering some sort of swap. Only reason id ever consider a swap is that a good friend with decades of knowledge has offered to help me out with the hard stuff and any questions or parts recommendations ill consult the boards. Not much to post or upate really but prolly just putter around with odds and ends till i can find an engine. Fuel injectors are crap and need replacing, Steering columns loose, clean up electrical etc etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importwarrior Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 glad to see you back. just tackle one thing at a time. and ask tons of questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psu_Crash Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Like IW said, welcome back! Nice to see that you held on to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMJ1098 Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) Probably not good http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb213/mcfittyfoot/photovalve5_zps76b8364c.jpg http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb213/mcfittyfoot/photovalve_zps19a30da8.jpg http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb213/mcfittyfoot/photovalve7_zps1eeb1348.jpghttp://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb213/mcfittyfoot/photovalve4_zpsda52f9d0.jpghttp://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb213/mcfittyfoot/photovalve3_zps52a567fc.jpg Edited March 8, 2013 by TMJ1098 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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